Am I the only one not impressed with Ventura and Kokesh?

Dsylexic said:
Very nice. The forefathers of the founding fathers of America brought small pox and other deadly diseases to the native americans and wiped out entire generations. Now you want to play health-license-permit-bureaucrat and decide who is in and who is out. diseases have nothing to do with immigration. when droves of poor europeans immigrated in the early part of the century, they were 'quarantined' in case they suffered from diseases. thats how epidemics are controlled -communicable or otherwise. A well known and well accepted method of temporary isolation (even NASA astronauts are quarantined on return from the Moon) should be applied.Once it is determined they dont possess a threat to public health, they can be let in.
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So America should have never happened for the safety of the native Americans? And I thought my stance was fringe. You sir, take the cake :( I'm sure you'll make an exception for that, a "they were patriots" of sorts.
 
Defining Obscene said:
So America should have never happened for the safety of the native Americans? And I thought my stance was fringe. You sir, take the cake :( I'm sure you'll make an exception for that, a "they were patriots" of sorts.
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No, all I am saying is that it is immoral to take an illiberal stand on immigration(ofcourse with the caveat that the welfare state should end first) mainly because the USA is a country of immigrants. The nation was founded by immigrants and it should remain free for immigration.
(false) patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel,as Samuel Johnson said,especially if it is based on "we are the best and you can go to hell " kind of sentiments .
US was created in 1776,but this land existed before 1776 and was witness to immense brutalities. That should never be forgotten. The native americans didnt say to the Europeans -go to hell you carriers of small pox. The conflict was only because the europeans forcibly occupied their lands.

btw, the history books taught to kids in our schools need to start much before 1776 -the history of the european conquest of the americas should also be taught.otherwise it is another brainwashing session.
 
JosephTheLibertarian said:
That's darwinism though. The immune system of the indians couldn't take it, what can I say? Libertarians believe in free trade and travel, so there is no reason not to think that they wouldn't have become infected by means of trade and travel. Shit happens.
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i have no problem with darwinism.-except the free trade and travel should continue even now irrespective of health conditions .commonsense quarantine measures are valid safety precautions and can be applied on sick immigrants like it used to be earlier.
 
dsylexic said:
no, all i am saying is that it is immoral to take an illiberal stand on immigration(ofcourse with the caveat that the welfare state should end first) mainly because the usa is a country of immigrants. The nation was founded by immigrants and it should remain free for immigration.
(false) patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel,as samuel johnson said,especially if it is based on "we are the best and you can go to hell " kind of sentiments .
Us was created in 1776,but this land existed before 1776 and was witness to immense brutalities. That should never be forgotten. The native americans didnt say to the europeans -go to hell you carriers of small pox. The conflict was only because the europeans forcibly occupied their lands.

Btw, the history books taught to kids in our schools need to start much before 1776 -the history of the european conquest of the americas should also be taught.otherwise it is another brainwashing session.
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qft.
 
Dsylexic said:
No, all I am saying is that it is immoral to take an illiberal stand on immigration(ofcourse with the caveat that the welfare state should end first) mainly because the USA is a country of immigrants. The nation was founded by immigrants and it should remain free for immigration.
(false) patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel,as Samuel Johnson said,especially if it is based on "we are the best and you can go to hell " kind of sentiments .
US was created in 1776,but this land existed before 1776 and was witness to immense brutalities. That should never be forgotten. The native americans didnt say to the Europeans -go to hell you carriers of small pox. The conflict was only because the europeans forcibly occupied their lands.

btw, the history books taught to kids in our schools need to start much before 1776 -the history of the european conquest of the americas should also be taught.otherwise it is another brainwashing session.
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Sir, I would be delighted to take this unpopular stance with you. As a lover of tribalism and true history and an anti-statist you hit the nail on the head for me.
I could give a crap less about the United States, all I care about is humanity, ecology and freedom.
Sure a republican form of government is just fine but the end DOES NOT justify the means (that's neocon talk)
What the European settlers did to the Indians dwarfs Hitlers genocide of the Jews.
 
AggieforPaul said:
Ventura really grinds my gears. 9/11 truther, pro-choice, pro-illegal immigration. Kokesh is a good speaker, but that line he gave sounded really violent and threatening. He also was part of a college campus student making fun of "conservo-fascists".

The day our movement becomes some crazy violent coup whose rally cries are proving 9/11 was an inside job, making it legal to abort, and opening the borders to every Mexican and Arab...

This isn't what Dr. Paul would want. He's not a truther, he's pro-life, he wants to secure the borders, and he even went as far as to vote in favor of giving no visas to students from terrorists nations during the Iranian hostage crisis.

I'm going to support B.J. Lawson, and other liberty minded individuals who share Ron Paul's values and my own values.
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+1

I'm holding judgment on Kokesh because I haven't seen enough of him. I do like the fact he put Bob Barr on blast at the press conference... :D

But I totally agree with you in regards to Ventura. The guy is an inarticulate oof and is nowhere near the level of understanding RP has on the issues. Nevermind the fact he lives in Mexico, the MSM would have a field day with that if he ever decided to run.
 
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AggieforPaul said:
Ventura really grinds my gears. 9/11 truther, pro-choice, pro-illegal immigration.
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I assume you're getting this from some other source other than his speech at the Rally?

Because the only thing I heard him mention about 9/11 is why has Bin Laden not been charged, yet our government in the media says he was behind it. Why is 9/11 not listed as one of his crimes on the FBI web site. I think these are valid questions. I'm not crazy, but I would like to know the answers to these questions as well. I mean, most people, when they kill one person usually get caught and put in the prison the rest of their lives. Bin Laden has killed thousands, and he's still on the loose?!?! And I've heard of no attempts to capture him in years now.

The only thing I heard him mention in his speech about immigration was that he didn't want to see a huge wall get built. And think most people agree with that as well. No where in his speech did he say he is fine with illegals coming over and taking our jobs.

Pro-choice, I am personally fine with. It's never been on my plate as a major concern of mine. Even RP doesn't want to completely ban abortion. He just wants to leave it up to the states to decide and leave the Federal government out of it.
 
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I'm not really impressed with that Kokesh guy either. Crazy fucking vet with PTSD! But at least he has better hair than Ventura! That's gotta count for something!

Sorry, the Marine Corps didn't teach me to pull punches. Ever. And I don't intend to. Ever.

As for the conservativo-fascists on my campus, yes, neocons who use fear tactics like "Islamo-fascism Awareness Week" deserve to be called out as fascists. BTW, it was David Horowitz behind that one. Anyone here a fan of Horowitz? Didn't think so.
 
AggieforPaul said:
Ventura really grinds my gears. 9/11 truther, pro-choice, pro-illegal immigration. Kokesh is a good speaker, but that line he gave sounded really violent and threatening. He also was part of a college campus student making fun of "conservo-fascists".

The day our movement becomes some crazy violent coup whose rally cries are proving 9/11 was an inside job, making it legal to abort, and opening the borders to every Mexican and Arab...

This isn't what Dr. Paul would want. He's not a truther, he's pro-life, he wants to secure the borders, and he even went as far as to vote in favor of giving no visas to students from terrorists nations during the Iranian hostage crisis.

I'm going to support B.J. Lawson, and other liberty minded individuals who share Ron Paul's values and my own values.
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Yeah, I think Venturas presence at the Rally damaged the Rallys credibility a little bit. But i also think his line "Don't ever let anyone tell you that your vote was wasted, If your heart is not behind your candidate...." and so on, was a very powerful part of the rally. With that said, I respect Jesse Ventura because he is one of the few that says exactly what he feels and he found a way to get into office. Ya gotta love that.
 
Adam Kokesh said:
I'm not really impressed with that Kokesh guy either. Crazy fucking vet with PTSD! But at least he has better hair than Ventura! That's gotta count for something!

Sorry, the Marine Corps didn't teach me to pull punches. Ever. And I don't intend to. Ever.

As for the conservativo-fascists on my campus, yes, neocons who use fear tactics like "Islamo-fascism Awareness Week" deserve to be called out as fascists. BTW, it was David Horowitz behind that one. Anyone here a fan of Horowitz? Didn't think so.
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Come on now, Kokesh is also a snappier dresser. How could you forget that?

He's also the one who occasionally says some things that scare people or make them uncomfortable. Good for him.
 
Adam Kokesh said:
I'm not really impressed with that Kokesh guy either. Crazy fucking vet with PTSD! But at least he has better hair than Ventura! That's gotta count for something!

Sorry, the Marine Corps didn't teach me to pull punches. Ever. And I don't intend to. Ever.

As for the conservativo-fascists on my campus, yes, neocons who use fear tactics like "Islamo-fascism Awareness Week" deserve to be called out as fascists. BTW, it was David Horowitz behind that one. Anyone here a fan of Horowitz? Didn't think so.
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I personally do not believe in being violent my man but if more good people were as brave as you are, America would be a much better place in which to live, that is for sure. :cool: (assuming that this is the real Kokesh of course....)
 
I don't "believe in being violent" either. I meant punches metaphorically here. But I am not afraid to use violence when all other means have been exhausted. "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible . . . "

It is important we bring the same commitment to our cause as our founders did.
 
Adam Kokesh said:
I don't "believe in being violent" either. I meant punches metaphorically here. But I am not afraid to use violence when all other means have been exhausted. "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible . . . "

It is important we bring the same commitment to our cause as our founders did.
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"make violent revolution inevitable"

Although I believe in peace and non-violence we have to understand it could come to this. Just think if they tried to take away our guns people.

"the beauty of the 2nd amendment is it will not be needed until the government tries to take it away" - thomas jefferson


EDIT

I also want to say, about commitment, would anyone here actually sign a document knowing that the government would be out the next day to hunt you down and kill you as was done with the declaration of independence? Do we have that commitment? I think Adam does. But hell, most here are afraid not to file income taxes in fear of a few months in jail. Protest and rallies are well and good but they don't amount to anything.

edit again: I don't think Ventura has this type of commitment although I think he serves a purpose in helping us reach our goals.
 
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