Allahu Akhbar!!!

[driller80545]

For the same reasons people stereotype and prejudge. Its easier, and creates less dissonance in one's life if you have a world view that sits well with your cultural upbringing.
Being a iconoclast is a never ending string of dissonance and not many people want that in their lives... so they find a world view that helps them make sense of the world around them.
Social Psychology, another branch of the great sociological perspective.

So, are you saying that people are religious because it is a convenient way of explaining their existence?

 

[disciple]

I have also often wondered which would be more traumatic-birth or death?

Well, it all depends on what condition we are in when death overtakes us; here's another original discourse:


"..What is death but an act which nature does by commandment of God? As it would be if one held a bird tied, and held the cord in his hand; when the head wills the bird to fly away, what does it? Assuredly it commands naturally the hand to open; and so straightway the bird flies away. "Our soul," as says the prophet David, "is as a sparrow freed from the snare of the fowler," when man abides under the protection of God. And our life is like a cord whereby nature holds the soul bound to the body and the sense of man. When therefore God wills, and commands nature to open, the life is broken and the soul escapes in the hands of the angels whom God has ordained to receive souls.

Let not, then, friends weep when their friend is dead; for our God has so willed. But let him weep without ceasing when he sins, for [so] the soul dies, seeing it separates itself from God, the true Life. If the body is horrible without its union with the soul, much more frightful is the soul without union with God, who with his grace and mercy beautifies and quickens it...'"

Jesus of Nazareth

 

[driller80545]

New time religion-what the bleep do we know?

 

[torchbearer]

So, are you saying that people are religious because it is a convenient way of explaining their existence?

That is an over-simplification... but yeh, that is the essence of wanting to know our reason for being here...

 

[Ozwest]

The King James Bible is a concoction of years of Catholic and English self serving editing,

The reserection of Christ is a convenient outcome.

And I've read the Bible back to front, and the great book has been blasphemed and manipulated by self serving charletons.

I am refreshed.

 

[driller80545]

Well, it all depends on what condition we are in when death overtakes us; here's another original discourse:


"..What is death but an act which nature does by commandment of God? As it would be if one held a bird tied, and held the cord in his hand; when the head wills the bird to fly away, what does it? Assuredly it commands naturally the hand to open; and so straightway the bird flies away. "Our soul," as says the prophet David, "is as a sparrow freed from the snare of the fowler," when man abides under the protection of God. And our life is like a cord whereby nature holds the soul bound to the body and the sense of man. When therefore God wills, and commands nature to open, the life is broken and the soul escapes in the hands of the angels whom God has ordained to receive souls.

Let not, then, friends weep when their friend is dead; for our God has so willed. But let him weep without ceasing when he sins, for [so] the soul dies, seeing it separates itself from God, the true Life. If the body is horrible without its union with the soul, much more frightful is the soul without union with God, who with his grace and mercy beautifies and quickens it...'"

Jesus of Nazareth

I like this description of death. It is comforting. As I expect it was meant to be.

 

[torchbearer]

Religion answers the questions science cannot povide.

Where did we come from?
Why are we here?
What is the right way to live?
What happens when we die?


You find a religion that answers those questions to your liking because it sits well with you and doesn't cause dissonance.
It is easier to go through life "knowing" those answers, than constantly living in a state of dissonance out of uncertainty.

This is of course a generalization and includes exceptions for iconoclast and such..

 

[Ozwest]

No, the Spaghetti Monster can do that.

 

[driller80545]

Religion answers the questions science cannot povide.

Where did we come from?
Why are we here?
What is the right way to live?
What happens when we die?


You find a religion that answers those questions to your liking because it sits well with you and doesn't cause dissonance.
It is easier to go through life "knowing" those answers, than constantly living in a state of dissonance out of uncertainty.

This is of course a generalization and includes exceptions for iconoclast and such..

I have thought this about the need for religion before. I have come to the conclusion that these questions are not important to me. I am curious about them, but am more concerned with being happy, secure, enjoying myself, having friends and family close, a good dog, etc.

 

[torchbearer]

I fit in the arena of not knowing...and only updating my world view with ideas I can come to through observations of the world around me.
I fit more in the realm of the iconoclast, which allows me to approach this subject with no emotion attached. I just want everyone to be free to pursue there own truths.. and maybe one day we can get closer to an overall understand to the before mentioned questions.

I love hearing others views, but I will be the first to ask hard, but serious and respectful questions. Not to demean, but to create thought.
Negative reactions to such questioning is because people's world view is being attacked and the dissonance one feels at the moment is uncomfortable and causes a negative reaction.

Personal growth can only be achieved through self discovery, not through debate.

 

[Ozwest]

Because you have the "trinkets," don't make it right.

 

[torchbearer]

No, the Spaghetti Monster can do that.

If that is what makes you sleep better at night.... i do not object.

 

[disciple]

I like this description of death. It is comforting. As I expect it was meant to be.

And it was told by someone who knew.

Stand by truth, justice, peace, and you will be alright.

And that's why I fully support Dr. Paul because he lives and practices these attributes.

I would also venture and say that Dr. Paul is America' last chance not only for freedom and prosperity but to atone for its many sins before it is too late.

 

[plp]

could you please move this to "hot topics"?
I personally don't think there's anything wrong with this thread, but there is some chance that e.g. CNN will show the forums today or tomorrow and we don't want to give the impression that ron paul's supporters are mostly muslim who only want to get the US troops out of their home countries, do we?

Well, CNN had better get over it. We are the unpolished, the unsophisticated, the unwashed (OK, maybe not, as I just got out of the shower) equal parts NASCAR, MTV, BET and the OC.

Our ancestors were the same way, many of whom could not read or write, yet still picked up their muskets and heeded the call to create a new nation, founded on the concept we receive our right to exist and prosper from our Creator, and not any earthly power.

We were at Concord, Belleau Wood, and Normandy, many times more concerned about whether the crops were in back home,than our own personal safety.

We were also at Chosin Reservoir and Saigon, even if we did not agree with our nation's decision to place us there. We still went, because we realized the importance, and after all, those in power were so much smarter than we were, surely they knew what they were doing.

We are also at Baghdad and Tikrit. Once again, when asked, we went.

Our present leaders have proven themselves unworthy of such as us, by their own actions. They have time and again proven our government has been perverted from what the founders of this nation intended, and in spite of the best manipulation by the NEA, today we are smart enough to see what has happened.

We have allowed our sovereignty to be sold to the highest bidder, and are borrowing money from the only other nation capable of superpower status to fund a military action (no Iraq war, folks, as Congress never ratified it) that does not defend our own nation.


I hope CNN gets it right, in identifying who we are. We come from different places, different classes, and different world views. If a bunch of us get together, I would bet you could not find a unanimous consensus on a single subject, from home schooling to the role of the military in the 21st century. You would probably find socialists, libertarians, liberals and conservatives all under the same roof.

The only unifying factor is our support of Dr. Paul and his vision for what this nation COULD be, based on what it once was.

 

[driller80545]

And it was told by someone who knew.

Stand by truth, justice, peace, and you will be alright.

And that's why I fully support Dr. Paul because he lives and practices these attributes.

I would also venture and say that Dr. Paul is America' last chance not only for freedom and prosperity but to atone for its many sins before it is too late.

Thank you for your insight and Go Dr. Paul.

 

[driller80545]

Well, CNN had better get over it. We are the unpolished, the unsophisticated, the unwashed (OK, maybe not, as I just got out of the shower) equal parts NASCAR, MTV, BET and the OC.

Our ancestors were the same way, many of whom could not read or write, yet still picked up their muskets and heeded the call to create a new nation, founded on the concept we receive our right to exist and prosper from our Creator, and not any earthly power.

We were at Concord, Belleau Wood, and Normandy, many times more concerned about whether the crops were in back home,than our own personal safety.

We were also at Chosin Reservoir and Saigon, even if we did not agree with our nation's decision to place us there. We still went, because we realized the importance, and after all, those in power were so much smarter than we were, surely they knew what they were doing.

We are also at Baghdad and Tikrit. Once again, when asked, we went.

Our present leaders have proven themselves unworthy of such as us, by their own actions. They have time and again proven our government has been perverted from what the founders of this nation intended, and in spite of the best manipulation by the NEA, today we are smart enough to see what has happened.

We have allowed our sovereignty to be sold to the highest bidder, and are borrowing money from the only other nation capable of superpower status to fund a military action (no Iraq war, folks, as Congress never ratified it) that does not defend our own nation.


I hope CNN gets it right, in identifying who we are. We come from different places, different classes, and different world views. If a bunch of us get together, I would bet you could not find a unanimous consensus on a single subject, from home schooling to the role of the military in the 21st century. You would probably find socialists, libertarians, liberals and conservatives all under the same roof.

The only unifying factor is our support of Dr. Paul and his vision for what this nation COULD be, based on what it once was.

This brought a tear to my eye. You, sir, are right!

 

[disciple]

Thank you for your insight and Go Dr. Paul.

You are welcome; keep the faith and keep on seeking. Much darkness lies ahead but there is also great news for those with good will irrespective of their convictions and labels.

 

[Ozwest]

I fit in the arena of not knowing...and only updating my world view with ideas I can come to through observations of the world around me.
I fit more in the realm of the iconoclast, which allows me to approach this subject with no emotion attached. I just want everyone to be free to pursue there own truths.. and maybe one day we can get closer to an overall understand to the before mentioned questions.

I love hearing others views, but I will be the first to ask hard, but serious and respectful questions. Not to demean, but to create thought.
Negative reactions to such questioning is because people's world view is being attacked and the dissonance one feels at the moment is uncomfortable and causes a negative reaction.

Personal growth can only be achieved through self discovery, not through debate.

I, as an Athiest, have the same far-reaching questions as you.

My personal reason for turning my back on Religion comes from having a heart which is open and free from Religious doctrine.

If there is a God, he will see your heart, and I'm here.

 

[driller80545]

I, as an Athiest, have the same far-reaching questions as you.

My personal reason for turning my back on Religion comes from having a heart which is open and free from Religious doctrine.

If there is a God, he will see your heart, and I'm here.

Sounds like yet another path to the same destination!

 

[torchbearer]

If there is a God

I wouldn't call myself an athiest if there was even a single shred of doubt that there could be a god.
I call myself nothing in the form of labels... by accepting a label, you box yourself in...at least, in the eyes of others.. thus reducing your ability to gain purposeful knowledge that can increase you understand of the world around.
You have to be willing to accept you are wrong...by declaring a creed... even an atheist creed... you have shut yourself off in some minor ways... reducing your overall ability to grow at your max potential.
Not saying it is a wrong way to be... but it does reduce personal growth. Simply by the fact that you would lash out to those that follow a god when they pray and preach because it offends your world view.

I'm thinking I need to set up a virtual couch for people to lay on during sessions like these...