Allahu Akhbar!!!

[driller80545]

I am not a Christian, a communist, a Muslim, or an atheist. I still trying to figure it all out. Might have to wait and see.
Go Ron Paul

 

[torchbearer]

Man, lots of Christians were Communists.

I am not a Communist or a Socialist, but if you are inferring that Religious doctrine precludes political excellence, we got some talking to do!

Mmmmm.... Athiests are human beings too...

You were implying that by following a god made people create war... and that is false as an absolute...
I show you an example were a system of government that prevent religion could be the cause of much bloodshed too...
Stalin was an atheist.

 

[torchbearer]

I am not a Christian, a communist, a Muslim, or an atheist. I still trying to figure it all out. Might have to wait and see.
Go Ron Paul

I'm in that same boat... I'm big time into astronomy.. the more I learn of the universe, the more I can see a purposeful design of brilliance... We are so small... and fragile... we could be just a by-product of a natural carbon process or there could have been a first cause that created the laws by which the world of physics are governed...
Can't really be sure... I'm not in a position to say one way is truth and another is false.
To say atheism is the truth is to say you know for a fact there is no higher power... which is ludicrous. No one really knows for fact...
We probably only understand 1% of what there is to know about the world and universe around us... to pretend otherwise is actually a close mind of ignorance that no longer wishes to receive different information.

 

[Ozwest]

I am not a torchbearer (excuse the pun) for Religion or Athiesm, or the accompanying jazz.

I am imperfect, but attempt to be unencumbered.

 

[plp]

could you please move this to "hot topics"?
I personally don't think there's anything wrong with this thread, but there is some chance that e.g. CNN will show the forums today or tomorrow and we don't want to give the impression that ron paul's supporters are mostly muslim who only want to get the US troops out of their home countries, do we?

Well, CNN had better get over it. We are the unpolished, the unsophisticated, the unwashed (OK, maybe not, as I just got out of the shower) equal parts NASCAR, MTV, BET and the OC.

Our ancestors were the same way, many of whom could not read or write, yet still picked up their muskets and heeded the call to create a new nation, founded on the concept we receive our right to exist and prosper from our Creator, and not any earthly power.

We were at Concord, Belleau Wood, and Normandy, many times more concerned about whether the crops were in back home,than our own personal safety.

We were also at Chosin Reservoir and Saigon, even if we did not agree with our nation's decision to place us there. We still went, because we realized the importance, and after all, those in power were so much smarter than we were, surely they knew what they were doing.

We are also at Baghdad and Tikrit. Once again, when asked, we went.

Our present leaders have proven themselves unworthy of such as us, by their own actions. They have time and again proven our government has been perverted from what the founders of this nation intended, and in spite of the best manipulation by the NEA, today we are smart enough to see what has happened.

We have allowed our sovereignty to be sold to the highest bidder, and are borrowing money from the only other nation capable of superpower status to fund a military action (no Iraq war, folks, as Congress never ratified it) that does not defend our own nation.


I hope CNN gets it right, in identifying who we are. We come from different places, different classes, and different world views. If a bunch of us get together, I would bet you could not find a unanimous consensus on a single subject, from home schooling to the role of the military in the 21st century. You would probably find socialists, libertarians, liberals and conservatives all under the same roof.

The only unifying factor is our support of Dr. Paul and his vision for what this nation COULD be, based on what it once was.

 

[Nefertiti]

could you please move this to "hot topics"?
I personally don't think there's anything wrong with this thread, but there is some chance that e.g. CNN will show the forums today or tomorrow and we don't want to give the impression that ron paul's supporters are mostly muslim who only want to get the US troops out of their home countries, do we?

Muslim Americans have the right to vote just like anyone else. And by the way, if a Christian Arab wanted to say "God is Great" he or she would say exactly the same thing.

 

[disciple]

Because I'm confused like all the other aspects of that religion. Religion of peace...

Don't get confused, do your homework and read a good book.

 

[torchbearer]

I am not a torchbearer (excuse the pun) for Religion or Athiesm, or the accompanying jazz.

I am imperfect, but attempt to be unencumbered.

Glad to hear that.. I thought you were advocating atheism as a truth. But our debate has made for good reading for the curious minds that read them.

 

[driller80545]

I'm in that same boat... I'm big time into astronomy.. the more I learn of the universe, the more I can see a purposeful design of brilliance... We are so small... and fragile... we could be just a by-product of a natural carbon process or there could have been a first cause that created the laws by which the world of physics are governed...
Can't really be sure... I'm not in a position to say one way is truth and another is false.
To say atheism is the truth is to say you know for a fact there is no higher power... which is ludicrous. No one really knows for fact...
We probably only understand 1% of what there is to know about the world and universe around us... to pretend otherwise is actually a close mind of ignorance that no longer wished to recieve different information.

I study the balance and harmony of nature. Life is a beautiful and wonderful thing. At the same time, it can be unbelieveably cruel and cold. I don't understand where we came from or why we are here, but at the same time I do feel there is some purpose and reason behind it. I don't think that anyone truly understands these questions, even though religion pretends to. I think in my case I will wait and see if death provides some clarity. No hurries though. Ha!

 

[Ozwest]

Too right Nefertiti. Get this man elected, and hopefully those attitudes will change.

 

[Ozwest]

Glad to hear that.. I thought you were advocating atheism as a truth. But our debate has made for good reading for the curious minds that read them.

That's the point!!! Athiesm is NOT the truth. It is what is.

Generic.

 

[Nefertiti]

Philosphy? its a language khara. read the post above.

Khara! LOL, now now Hamadeh play nice with the other children!

 

[torchbearer]

At the same time, it can be unbelieveably cruel and cold.

If you study the natural balance of the way the universe works.. there are cycles of birth, growth, decay, death... and then.. rebirth, growth, decay, and death...
decay and death can be seen as cruel, but it is what makes everything work.

Just because we can't see the picture from afar doesn't mean it doesn't make sense.

We only see one pixel in a huge hi-res graphic. How could we possibly see how all this works in the 'big picture'.

 

[disciple]

I am not a Christian, a communist, a Muslim, or an atheist. I still trying to figure it all out. Might have to wait and see.
Go Ron Paul

Well, keep on looking, the truth is out there. And meditate on thisoriginal and great jewel of wisdom uttered by Jesus:

"...Wherefore I say unto you verily, that if God our Lord enlighten not the heart of man, the reasonings of men are of no avail.

John answered: `Then to what end serveth the speech of men?

Jesus replied: `Man as man availeth naught to convert man to penitence; but man as a means which God useth converteth man; so that seeing God worketh by a secret fashion in man for man's salvation, one ought to listen to every man, in order that among all may be received him in whom God speaketh to us.'

James answered: `O Master, if perchance there shall come a false prophet and lying teacher pretending to instruct us, what ought we to do?

Jesus answered in parable: `A man goeth to fish with a net, and therein he catcheth many fishes, but those that are bad he throweth away.

`A man went forth to sow, but only the grain that falleth on good ground beareth seed.

`Even so ought ye to do, listening to all and receiving only the truth, seeing that the truth alone beareth fruit unto eternal life.'

Then answered Andrew: `Now how shall the truth be known?

Jesus answered: `Everything that conformeth to the book of Moses, that receive ye for true; seeing that God is one, the truth is one; whence it followeth that the doctrine is one and the meaning of the doctrine is one; and therefore the faith is one. Verily I say unto you that if the truth had not been erased from the book of Moses, God would not have given to David our father the second. And if the book of David had not been contaminated, God would not have committed the Gospel to me; seeing that the Lord our God is unchangeable, and hath spoken but one message to all men..."

Jesus of Nazareth


I left the rest of the discourse out so as not to shock some people here, but this should be a good starting point.

 

[driller80545]

If you study the natural balance of the way the universe works.. there are cycles of birth, growth, decay, death... and then.. rebirth, growth, decay, and death...
decay and death can be seen as cruel, but it is what makes everything work.

Just because we can't see the picture from afar doesn't mean it doesn't make sense.

We only see one pixel in a huge hi-res graphic. How could we possibly see how all this works in the 'big picture'.

I completely agree with you. But what I don't understand is why people so passionately think that they have it all explained with one god or another.

 

[Ozwest]

If you study the natural balance of the way the universe works.. there are cycles of birth, growth, decay, death... and then.. rebirth, growth, decay, and death...
decay and death can be seen as cruel, but it is what makes everything work.

Just because we can't see the picture from afar doesn't mean it doesn't make sense.

We only see one pixel in a huge hi-res graphic. How could we possibly see how all this works in the 'big picture'.

I had that "old time religion" too.

 

[driller80545]

I have also often wondered which would be more traumatic-birth or death?

 

[torchbearer]

I completely agree with you. But what I don't understand is why people so passionately think that they have it all explained with one god or another.

For the same reasons people stereotype and prejudge. Its easier, and creates less dissonance in one's life if you have a world view that sits well with your cultural upbringing.
Being a iconoclast is a never ending string of dissonance and not many people want that in their lives... so they find a world view that helps them make sense of the world around them.
Social Psychology, another branch of the great sociological perspective.

 

[driller80545]

Well, keep on looking, the truth is out there. And meditate on thisoriginal and great jewel of wisdom uttered by Jesus:

"...Wherefore I say unto you verily, that if God our Lord enlighten not the heart of man, the reasonings of men are of no avail.

John answered: `Then to what end serveth the speech of men?

Jesus replied: `Man as man availeth naught to convert man to penitence; but man as a means which God useth converteth man; so that seeing God worketh by a secret fashion in man for man's salvation, one ought to listen to every man, in order that among all may be received him in whom God speaketh to us.'

James answered: `O Master, if perchance there shall come a false prophet and lying teacher pretending to instruct us, what ought we to do?

Jesus answered in parable: `A man goeth to fish with a net, and therein he catcheth many fishes, but those that are bad he throweth away.

`A man went forth to sow, but only the grain that falleth on good ground beareth seed.

`Even so ought ye to do, listening to all and receiving only the truth, seeing that the truth alone beareth fruit unto eternal life.'

Then answered Andrew: `Now how shall the truth be known?

Jesus answered: `Everything that conformeth to the book of Moses, that receive ye for true; seeing that God is one, the truth is one; whence it followeth that the doctrine is one and the meaning of the doctrine is one; and therefore the faith is one. Verily I say unto you that if the truth had not been erased from the book of Moses, God would not have given to David our father the second. And if the book of David had not been contaminated, God would not have committed the Gospel to me; seeing that the Lord our God is unchangeable, and hath spoken but one message to all men..."

Jesus of Nazareth


I left the rest of the discourse out so as not to shock some people here, but this should be a good starting point.

Well and good, but, well...and good

 

[torchbearer]

I had that "old time religion" too.

Oh, then please enlighten me to the "new time religion".