Alabama weighs eliminating all marriage licenses

Alabama Senate Passes Bill to Effectively Nullify All Sides on Marriage

MONTGOMERY, Ala. (May 23, 2015) – This week, the Alabama state Senate passed a bill that would end the practice of licensing marriages in the state, effectively nullifying both major sides of the contentious national debate over government-sanctioned marriage.

Introduced by Sen. Greg Albritton (R-Bay Minette), Senate Bill 377 (SB377) would end state issued marriage licenses, while providing marriage contracts as an alternative. It passed through the Alabama state Senate by a 22-3 margin on May 19.

“When you invite the state into those matters of personal or religious import, it creates difficulties,” Sen. Albritton said about his bill in April. “Go back long, long ago in a galaxy far, far away. Early twentieth century, if you go back and look and try to find marriage licenses for your grandparents or great grandparents, you won’t find it. What you will find instead is where people have come in and recorded when a marriage has occurred.”

The bill would replace all references to marriages “licenses” in state law with “contracts.” The legislation would not invalidate any marriage licenses issued prior to the bill being passed.

The contract shall be filed in the office of the judge of probate in each county and shall constitute a legal record of the marriage. A copy of the contract shall be transmitted to the Office of Vital Statistics of the Department of Public Health and made a part of its record…

Effective July 1, 2015, any requirement to obtain a marriage license issued by the judge of probate is abolished and repealed.

PRACTICAL EFFECT

SB377 would accomplish two things.

First, it would render void the edicts of federal judges that have overturned state laws defining marriage. The founding generation never envisioned unelected judges issuing ex cathedra pronouncements regarding the definition of social institutions like marriage and the Constitution delegates the federal judiciary no authority to meddle in the issue. Marriage is a realm clearly left to the state and the people..

Second, the bill would get the state government out of defining marriage entirely as well, ending the squabble between factions that seek to harness the power of the state, thereby taking the burden off government officials who may be torn between what is legally required of them and their religious convictions.

The intent or motives behind this bill are a moot point. By removing the state from the equation, no one can force another to accept their marriage, nor can they force another to reject that person’s own beliefs regarding an institution older than government.

“Licenses are used as a way to stop people from doing things,” said Michael Boldin of the Tenth Amendment Center. “My personal relationship should not be subject to government permission.”

HISTORICAL BACKDROP

As a 2007 New York Times op/ed points out, for centuries marriage was a private affair.

“For most of Western history, they didn’t, because marriage was a private contract between two families. The parents’ agreement to the match, not the approval of church or state, was what confirmed its validity. For 16 centuries, Christianity also defined the validity of a marriage on the basis of a couple’s wishes. If two people claimed they had exchanged marital vows — even out alone by the haystack — the Catholic Church accepted that they were validly married.

In fact, the use of state marriage licenses for many years was a way of preventing people from entering into interracial marriages. Later, the NYT story recounts, the licenses became necessary in order to subsidize the welfare state.

“The Social Security Act provided survivors’ benefits with proof of marriage. Employers used marital status to determine whether they would provide health insurance or pension benefits to employees’ dependents. Courts and hospitals required a marriage license before granting couples the privilege of inheriting from each other or receiving medical information.”

Something that is rarely considered by those seeking to control the state’s definition of marriage is that a marriage license means a citizen requires the permission of their government before they can get married. A person cannot drive a vehicle, aside from limited circumstances, without a license. A person cannot practice law without a license, nor can they engage in medical care.

Put another way, marriage is not a right, or a religious institution, but a privilege the state grants us if we meet the conditions put upon us.

Consider this: In the same way a driver can lose their license if they break certain traffic laws, a man or woman, theoretically, could one day find their marriage license revoked for breaking certain “marriage” rules, whether it pertains to child rearing, or their religious and political convictions.

Christopher Wesley, an associated scholar at the Mises Institute, wrote that “marriage is most endangered when it rests in the coercive hands of the State.”
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http://blog.tenthamendmentcenter.co...to-effectively-nullify-all-sides-on-marriage/
 
In an ideal world, marriage is an exclusive sexual relationship that defines property ownership, and legitimizes children. If that relationship should break up, the State has a vested interest to ensure a fair division of property and the determined custody of minor children.

If the state had no vested interest in it, the divorce rate would plummet. Government is the reason that divorce is so common and the family unit is destroyed.
 
Wow, this sounds awfully familiar....

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It isn't a conservative school of thought. It is slowly catching on, but not doing well. Liberty folks came up with the idea. Republicans in NH were the first legislators to talk about it. Then in OK. Nothing much happened in either state, except for some news coverage and minor debating. Now the idea has spread to AL, though perhaps with not so nice intentions. Still, that's good news. Whenever conservatives think about an issue like this, I'm hopefully that the Republican Party isn't as close-minded as most young people think it is.

What year was that?
 
Second, the bill would get the state government out of defining marriage entirely as well, ending the squabble between factions that seek to harness the power of the state [...]

There is a huge swathe of so-called "problems" for which the ONLY "solution" is to eliminate the opportunity for squabbling "factions" to clobber one another over the head with the "power of the State." (The "evolution vs. creationism in public schools" thing is a notable example of this - in addition to the "gay marriage" issue.)

Getting the State "out of it" is the only way of defusing these "squabbles." Indeed, most (if not all) of these "squabbles" would never even have risen to the level of "problems" to begin with if it had not been for the intrusion of the State into them.
 
Getting the State "out of it" is the only way of defusing these "squabbles." Indeed, most (if not all) of these "squabbles" would never even have risen to the level of "problems" to begin with if it had not been for the intrusion of the State into them.


THIS^googol-plex


The "state" stinks up virtually everything it touches. This is what the "state" does.
 
And I dare say you probably got the democrat vote because THEY WERE trying to weaken the marriage amendment.

You clearly did not hear the floor argument of the Democratic Minority Leader during consideration.

Why was the "Marriage belongs to the dominion of God under the authority of the church" phrase necessary?

If you had been in NC during the debate on the Marriage Amendment, you would understand. This was text that would have been offered to the public at large for a referendum on a Constitutional Amendment. A full 72% of North Carolina citizens supported the Marriage Amendment on account of "that's how God wants it." Any justification for amending the question that did not include the rationale of godliness would never have picked up more than 28% of the popular vote.

Using a Judeo-Christian phrasing leaves open the possibility that the state could act as the arbiter of marriages not performed under the dominion of the Judeo-Christian God: under the dominion of Allah, for instance; or in Buddism where marriage is a completely secular affair rather than a religious sacrement.

Not even slightly true. The only legally operative phrase in the whole thing is "Licensure of marriage is prohibited in the State." Everything else is just justification for that position. You base law on legally operative statements, not the justification thereof.

The "dominion of God" phrasing simply gives the courts a toehold to step in under the premise that the law is based upon the establishment of one particular religion's marriage at the exclusion of other types of religious or secular marriage.

That's not how law works. There is only one statement in that amendment that has legal effect, and that statement is "Licensure of marriage is prohibited in the State."

Also, in the climate in which the amendment was offered, that was the ONLY path to passage, and I was not just trying to make a valiant statement, I was actually trying to pass it.
 
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Albritton's bill would require couples wanting to be married to enter into a properly executed contract witnessed by two adults. The contract would then be filed in the probate's office. Sen. Phil Williams, R-Rainbow City, asked why the bill included a fee increase.

Albritton responded saying the intent of raising the fee from $50 to $75 was to garner support. Source.

So then the question is, what if a couple has a private contract but does NOT file with the State? Or, what is the motivation to file the contract with the State to begin with?
 
So then the question is, what if a couple has a private contract but does NOT file with the State? Or, what is the motivation to file the contract with the State to begin with?

When you propose to ban licensure, nearly the entire lawyer lobby comes out in force with one voice to scream about divorce, property, and custody. These people go literally apoplectic that the world will fall apart and the sun will cease to shine if things like the division of property, child custody, and child support are not addressed. There are enough 'slaves to the lawyer lobby' in any given legislature, that if you do not actually address those issues in some fashion, then such a measure will be impossible to pass. I would bet my bottom dollar that the bill sponsor included that measure specifically to mollify those complaints in the sincere hope that his bill would pass.
 
So then the question is, what if a couple has a private contract but does NOT file with the State? Or, what is the motivation to file the contract with the State to begin with?

I realize that the answer to the second question is to collect "benefits" to being married, such as tax deductions. But if this bill passes, I don't see how the State could force people to file their contract with them. Legally I would think the contract is valid whether it is filed with the State or not. This could back-fire on them in terms of collecting revenue for filing fees....
 
When you propose to ban licensure, nearly the entire lawyer lobby comes out in force with one voice to scream about divorce, property, and custody. These people go literally apoplectic that the world will fall apart and the sun will cease to shine if things like the division of property, child custody, and child support are not addressed. There are enough 'slaves to the lawyer lobby' in any given legislature, that if you do not actually address those issues in some fashion, then such a measure will be impossible to pass. I would bet my bottom dollar that the bill sponsor included that measure specifically to mollify those complaints in the sincere hope that his bill would pass.

Well it did pass the full Senate, and is now heading to the House. Still, if someone challenges the State's requirement to "file" the contract, and wins, the State is going to lose a lot of revenue, and possibly a lot of these family law professionals are going to be looking for work.

Maybe we should stop discussing this, until the bill is signed into law.... :)
 
Alabama Republicans Kill Bid To Scrap Marriage Licenses

An Alabama bill designed to outmaneuver a possible Supreme Court ruling in favor of gay marriage by scrapping marriage licenses died quickly in the state House this week after sailing through the Senate.

The bill would do away with marriage licenses altogether, and instead require those “legally authorized to be married” to simply sign a legal contract witnessed by a clergy member, lawyer or notary public.

“My goal is to remove the state out of the lives of people,” the bill’s sponsor, Republican Sen. Greg Albritton, told the Decatur Daily. “No. 2 is to prevent the state from getting involved in long-term lawsuits that do no good.”

Conflicting federal and state rulings on same-sex marriage in Alabama have led some probate judges to issue same-sex marriage licenses, some to refuse, and some to stop issuing marriage licenses altogether.

...

Sen. Albritton’s bill would avoid the issue altogether by scrapping marriage licenses for everyone in the state. If the Supreme Court rules that states must issue same-sex marriage licenses, Alabama could avert the ruling by saying it doesn’t issue any licenses.

The bill cleared the Alabama Senate easily, but died this week in the House Judiciary Committee, despite a Republican supermajority in both the House and Senate.


“It didn’t make sense to me to make such a sweeping change about how we do marriage, just because of concern about some probate judges in a bit of a spot,” Republican Rep. Mike Ball, who voted against the bill in committee, told The Daily Caller News Foundation. “It had just gotten down from the Senate to the House, and there were way too many questions to act on something that significantly so quickly.”

Regarding same-sex marriage, he said it’s important for the state to recognize civil unions, although the state can’t truly regulate the religious institution of marriage.

“That spiritual union that people seem to believe in, man really doesn’t have any jurisdiction over that anyway, and that’s my religious belief,” he told TheDCNF. “But as a legislator, we’re talking about what’s the role of government. And traditionally, the role of government has been to recognize marriage, because the institution of marriage is something that’s healthy for society.”

“We need to see what the Supreme Court says,” he added. “Then we’ll know what the recognized law of the land is and then we’ll go from there.”

Ball and others were concerned about unintended consequences the bill might have, such as confusion about who can sign the contract and what implications that could have on marriage laws, such as those regarding age and incest.

...
Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2015/06/06/a...bid-to-scrap-marriage-licenses/#ixzz3cJhd5v5g
 
So basically, it was the typical psychotic political/governmental bait and switch. Tricking people into voting for something they really don't agree with because they're too stupid to realize it. That's the same type of political strategy that gave us:


Government is at best but an expedient; but most governments are usually, and all governments are sometimes, inexpedient.

How exactly, is that amendment anything but what it appears to be? Removing the authority over marriages from a corrupt government, placing it entirely out of reach of this universe, and banning the licensure of marriage?
 
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