AIDS fact or Fraud?

[dannno]

Dannno you're not doing much of a better job at "substance". You and your friends use as "evidence" two videos by these "credible" scientists who's opinions are debunked.

Hell even a guy who posted actual substance earlier wasn't apparently not enough for you.

No, I'm talking about AIDS and you aren't. That's the difference. I've talked about AIDS throughout this entire thread. You haven't talked about it once. You argue about nothing that has any substance. You say nothing of value whatsoever. Ever. Seriously. Go back through the thread and look at what you have been saying. Nothing. That's what. Yongrel is the same way. He says we are all wrong and leaves. Points out something occasionally that is wrong and leaves again.

 

[sam9657]

No, I'm talking about AIDS and you aren't. That's the difference. I've talked about AIDS throughout this entire thread. You haven't talked about it once. You argue about nothing that has any substance. You say nothing of value whatsoever. Ever. Seriously. Go back through the thread and look at what you have been saying. Nothing. That's what.

Sadly this is a behavior consistent will most HIV/AIDS theory supporters. Instead of debating Peter Duesberg, they call him a quack.

 

[dannno]

Is it all bullshit, probably not look somethings that have been accomplished-greater lifespan and entirely new types of drugs that benefit a variety of fields. But you could of course still choose to deny this.

Thank you for thinking and speaking your mind rather than just spewing a bunch of BS like some other posters here.

The answer given in the video is that AZT was what was killing AIDS patients, and when they switched from AZT to other AIDS medications, the lifespans increased. The new AIDS medications are better than AZT, but they do either one or two things to harm people. At minimum they don't allow the real disease to be treated because they are treating something that doesn't exist. Another possibility is that they cause AIDS more slowly.

 

[Agent Chameleon]

Interesting note. A quick google of the drug AZT,which was the first drug to treat AIDS, shows that the side effects of AZT are similar to the symptoms of AIDS:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zidovudine
Common side effects of AZT include nausea, headache, changes in body fat, and discoloration of fingernails and toenails. More severe side effects include anemia and bone marrow suppression.

So since once of the side effects of AZT is that immune suppression how do we distinguish the its effects from AIDS itself?

From wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIV_an...antiretroviral_drugs.2C_not_HIV.2C_cause_AIDS


The vast majority of people with AIDS never received antiretroviral drugs, including those in developed countries prior to the licensure of AZT in 1987. Still, today, very few individuals in developing countries have access to these medications.[42]

In the 1980s, clinical trials enrolling patients with AIDS found that AZT given as single-drug therapy conferred a modest (and short-lived) survival advantage compared to placebo. Among HIV-infected patients who had not yet developed AIDS, placebo-controlled trials found that AZT given as single-drug therapy delayed, for a year or two, the onset of AIDS-related illnesses. The lack of excess AIDS cases and death in the AZT arms of these placebo-controlled trials effectively counters the argument that AZT causes AIDS.[32]

Subsequent clinical trials found that patients receiving two-drug combinations had up to 50 percent increases in time to progression to AIDS and in survival when compared to people receiving single-drug therapy. In more recent years, three-drug combination therapies have produced another 50 percent to 80 percent improvements in progression to AIDS and in survival when compared to two-drug regimens in clinical trials.[43] Use of potent anti-HIV combination therapies has contributed to dramatic reductions in the incidence of AIDS and AIDS-related deaths in populations where these drugs are widely available, an effect which would be unlikely if antiretroviral drugs caused AIDS.[44][45][46][47][48][49][50][51][52][53]

 

[Agent Chameleon]

No, I'm talking about AIDS and you aren't. That's the difference. I've talked about AIDS throughout this entire thread. You haven't talked about it once. You argue about nothing that has any substance. You say nothing of value whatsoever. Ever. Seriously. Go back through the thread and look at what you have been saying. Nothing. That's what. Yongrel is the same way. He says we are all wrong and leaves. Points out something occasionally that is wrong and leaves again.

I'm sorry but citing two scientists as proof for your claims is not substance.

 

[dannno]

I'm sorry but citing two scientists as proof for your claims is not substance.

Stop lying. You are a liar and a con artist as far as I am concerned.

 

[Agent Chameleon]

Stop lying. You are a liar and a con artist as far as I am concerned.

And I think you're insane. <3

 

[tmosley]

Guys, seriously, calm down. I will post a more detailed response when I get home, but I'm at work now, so I don't have a whole bunch of time.

There is a common thread of disbelief on these forums, and a questioning of authority, which is really a good thing. But you people with "open minds" need to really keep them open to the possibility that "mainstream" science might just be right, that those thousands of people who are continually testing theories, and sniping the shit out of them until only those who can withstand the assault remain might just be right. I like the person who broke down the difference between what they call AIDS and HIV, and he's right, and perhaps to an extent everyone is right. HIV isn't the only cause of immune deficiencies, but it MOST ASSUREDLY IS one cause. If you get pricked by a needle with HIV in it, you WILL DIE without treatment (unless you are one of the lucky 1% of humanity who is immune to the virus, or one of the lucky 5% of northern europeans).

I should note that strength of credentials does not imply strength of theory. It does, however, imply the ability to discredit the theory of someone else. 10,000 scientists telling 2 scientists they are wrong, and pointing out why will tend to be right, where 2 scientists telling 10,000 scientists they are wrong and pointing out why may be a tossup. If they can convince other scientists they are right, to swing that proportion in the other direction, you can probably say with some certainty that they are right.

 

[Agent Chameleon]

I should note that strength of credentials does not imply strength of theory. It does, however, imply the ability to discredit the theory of someone else. 10,000 scientists telling 2 scientists they are wrong, and pointing out why will tend to be right, where 2 scientists telling 10,000 scientists they are wrong and pointing out why may be a tossup. If they can convince other scientists they are right, to swing that proportion in the other direction, you can probably say with some certainty that they are right.

Thank you, that's what I've been trying to say but dannno's arrogance sometimes gets the worst out of me.

 

[dannno]

I should note that strength of credentials does not imply strength of theory. It does, however, imply the ability to discredit the theory of someone else. 10,000 scientists telling 2 scientists they are wrong, and pointing out why will tend to be right, where 2 scientists telling 10,000 scientists they are wrong and pointing out why may be a tossup. If they can convince other scientists they are right, to swing that proportion in the other direction, you can probably say with some certainty that they are right.

http://garynull.com/dissidents_list.html

A LIST OF HIGH PROFILE AIDS DISSIDENTS

* Mohammad Ali Al-Bayati. PhD, Toxicologist and Pathologist, California. Author, "Get all the facts: HIV does not cause AIDS"
* Liz Byrski. Author, "Facing Cancer-Searching for Solutions" and other books. Adjunct Teaching Fellow, Curtin University of Technology. Winner, CSIRO Award for Excellence in Science Journalism (1996), Fremantle, Western Australia
* Hiram Caton. PhD, Ethicist, Head of the School of Applied Ethics at Griffith University, Brisbane, Australia
* Nicholas D. Chester. PhD, Molecular Biology and Biochemistry, Genetics Department, Harvard Medical School, Boston, Massachusetts
* Rebecca Veronica Culshaw. PhD. Assistant Professor of Mathematics, University of Texas at Tyler. Advisor, Journal of Biological Systems. Studied and published mathematical models of HIV infection for 10 years.
* Leopoldo Della Ciana. PhD, Chemist, President and Scientific Director, Cyanagen srl, Bologna, Italy; former Postdoctoral Fellow, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, former Senior Research Scientist at IGEN, Rockville, Maryland and Research Group Leader, SORIN Biomedica, Saluggia, Italy
* Juan Jose Flores. MD, PhD, Professor of Medicine, La Universidad Veracruzana, Mexico
* Sky Gilbert. PhD, University of Toronto (2005). University Research Chair in Creative Writing and Theatre Studies at Guelph University (2006). Actor/Playwright/Director, Columnist, Poet, Film Writer/Director/Producer, Novelist, Drag Queen. Received the Pauline McGibbon Award for directing (1985) and the Dora Award (1992).
* William I. Grosky. PhD, Professor and Chair, Department of Computer and Information Science, University of Michigan-Dearborn.
* Mae-Wan Ho. PhD, Geneticist and Biophysicist, Open University, London, UK. Director, Institute of Science in Society; Author and activist. Awarded the Chan Kai Ming Prize for Biological Sciences (HK) 1964; Fellow of the National Genetics Foundation (USA) 1971-1974; Vida Sana Award (Spain) 1998. Says immune deficiency syndromes can be caused by drugs and anti-Hiv medicines
* Vladimir Koliadin. PhD, Statistician, Senior Research Scientist, State Aerospace University, Kharkov, Ukraine
* Lisa Landymore-lim. PhD, Biochemist, Sydney, Australia, author, "Poisonous Prescriptions"
* Leon Louw. Executive Director, Free Market Foundation and Law Review Project, South Africa; co-author, "Beyond Apartheid" and other books; nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize in 1989, 1991, and 1992
* Richard MacIntyre. PhD, former Fulbright Scholar, Professor & Robert Wood Johnson Executive Nurse Fellow, Samuel Merritt College, Sacramento, California. Author, "Mortal Men: Living With Asymptomatic HIV"
* Jonas Moses. PhD. Chicago, IL, USA.
* Gary Null. PhD, syndicated host of "Natural Living with Gary Null," author ( "AIDS, A Second Opinion" ), and a producer of PBS special programs. His "Deconstructing the Myth of AIDS" won the Audience Award for Best Documentary at both the New York and Los Angeles International Independent Film and Video Festivals.
* Rodney Richards. PhD, Biochemist, Founding scientist for the biotech company Amgen. Collaborated with Abbott Laboratories in developing some of the first HIV tests
* Roberto P. Stock. PhD, Research Scientist, Instituto de Biotecnologia, Universidad Nacional Autonoma de Mexico
* Slawomir Szymanski. PhD and D.Sc. in Chemistry. Professor, Institute of Organic Chemistry, Polish Academy of Sciences, Warsaw, Poland
* Jacek Wójcik. PhD, Chemist, Institute of Biochemistry and Biophysics, Polish Academy of Sciences, Warszawa, Poland
* Chun Xu. MD, PhD, McGill University, Montreal, Canada
* William Young. PhD, Genetics, Lansing, Michigan
* Vladimir Zajac. PhD, Oncovirologist, Geneticist, Cancer Research Institute, Bratislava, Slovak Republic
* Dr. Kary Mullis. PhD, Biochemist, Winner, 1993 Nobel Prize for Chemistry for inventing the polymerase chain reaction, the basis for the HIV "viral load" tests.
* Dr. David Rasnick. PhD, Biochemist, Protease Inhibitor Developer, University of California
* Dr. Gordon Stewart. MD, Emeritus Professor of Public Health, University of Glasgow. Former Consultant Physician (Epidemiology and Preventive Medicine) to National Health Service (UK) and WHO. Author of over 100 journal articles and contributions to symposia, as well as such books as "Trends in Epidemiology" and "The Penicillin Group of Drugs".
* Dr. Alfred Hassig. MD, Professor in Immunology, University of Bern, former Director, Swiss Red Cross blood banks
* Dr. Peter Duesberg. PhD, Professor of Molecular Biology, University of California, member, National Academy of Sciences, first to map the genetic structure of retroviruses. Five-time recipient of the National Institutes of Health's Outstanding Investigator Grant. (All federal grants terminated when he started challenging the HIV theory). Author, "Inventing the AIDS Virus"
* Dr. Sam Mhlongo. MD, Head of the Department of Family Medicine and Primary Health Care at the Medical University of South Africa, Johannesburg.
* Dr. Donald W. Miller. Jr., MD (Harvard, 1965), BMS (Dartmouth, 1963), Professor of Surgery, University of Washington School of Medicine. Author of "The Practice of Coronary Artery Bypass Surgery" (1977), co-author of "Atlas of Cardiac Surgery" (1983, Japanese version 1985), author of "Heart in Hand" (1999).
* Dr. Martin Feldman. MD, Assistant Clinical Professor of Neurology at Mount Sinai School of Medicine, New York, graduate of Columbia University's College of Physicians and Surgeons, author of more than 50 articles published in peer-reviewed medical journals
* Dr. Valendar Turner. MD, Royal Perth Hospital, University of Western Australia
* Dr. Serge Lang. PhD, Professor of Mathematics, Yale University; awarded the Dylan Hixon '88 Prize for Teaching Excellence in the Natural Sciences; also the Steel and Cole prizes of the American Mathematical Society; Author of 37 books; former Fulbright Scholar; Member, US National Academy of Sciences.
* Harvey Bialy. PhD. Founding and scientific editor, Nature Biotechnology (1983-1996). Resident Scholar, Institute of Biotechnology/Autonomous National University of Mexico (1996-2006), Member, South Africa Presidential Aids Advisory Panel (2000-present). Author of "Oncogenes, Aneuploidy and AIDS: A Scientific Life & Times of Peter H. Duesberg".
* Dr. Claus Koehnlein. MD, AIDS and Internal Medicine specialist, Kiel, Germany
* Neville Hodgkinson. former Science Editor, The Times of London; author, "AIDS: The Failure of Contemporary Science"
* Dr. Etienne de Harven. MD, Emeritus Professor of Pathology, University of Toronto (1981-1993). Professor of Cell Biology, Cornell Graduate School of Medical Science (1968-1981). Associate Professor (1964-1968). Assistant Professor, Pathology. Université Libre de Bruxells (1956-1962). Belgian Air Force Medical Corps (1953-1956). Author of over 100 peer-reviewed medical papers on virology, cancer, immunology and electron microscopy.
* Dr. Richard Strohman. PhD, Professor Emeritus of Molecular and Cell Biology, University of California, Berkeley; former Director of the Health and Medical Sciences Program at UC Berkeley
* Dr. Randall R. 'Rush' Wayne. MA, Molecular Biology, Harvard University, PhD, Biochemistry, University of California
* Dr. Heinz Ludwig Sänger. PhD, Emeritus Professor of Molecular Biology and Virology and a former director of the Department of Viroid Research, Max Planck Institute for Biochemistry, Germany; Recipient of the international Robert Koch award for medical research, 1978*
* Dr. Heinz Spranger. PhD, DDM. German Nosologist and Semiotist, and Practitioner in Periodontology and Oral Medicine. Former founder and Dean of the Faculty of Oral Medicine at the University Witten/Herdecke, former head of the Department of Periodontology and Oral Medicine, Johann Wolfgang Goethe University, Frankfurt/Main. Recipient of the German Ribbon of the Order of the Distinguished Service Cross for his humanitarian scientific efforts
* Dr. Matthew Irwin. MD, Washington, DC
* Dr. Christian Fiala. MD, PhD, specialist in OB/Gyn, Vienna, Austria; Member of President Mbeki's AIDS Advisory Board
* Dr. George Kent. PhD, Chairman, Political Science Department, University of Hawaii, Honolulu. Coordinator of the Task Force on Children's Nutrition Rights for the World Alliance on Nutrition and Human Rights and the World Alliance for Breastfeeding Action
* Todd Miller. PhD, Assistant Professor, Department of Molecular and Cellular Pharmacology, University of Miami School of Medicine, Florida
* Dr. Henry Bauer. PhD, Professor Emeritus of Chemistry & Science Studies and Dean Emeritus of Arts & Sciences at Virginia Polytechnic Institute & State University; Former Editor-in-Chief of the Journal of Scientific Exploration; Author, "The Origins, Persistence and Failings of HIV/AIDS Theory", "Fatal Attractions: The Troubles with Science", "Scientific Literacy and the Myth of the Scientific Method", "Science or Pseudoscience: Magnetic Healing, Psychic Phenomena, and other heterodoxies" and other books
* Andrew Maniotis. PhD, Program Director, Cell and Developmental Biology of Cancer, Departments of Pathology, Anatomy and Cell Biology, and Bioengineering, University of Illinois at Chicago
* Andrea G. Drusini. MD, PhD. Medical Anthropologist, Professor of Anthropology, Department of Medico-Diagnostic Sciences and Special Therapies, University of Padova, Italy
* Joan Shenton. MA, Meditel Productions, England. Medical journalist and producer of over 100 TV documentaries which won her company seven international awards as well as the British Royal Television Society Award and the British Medical Association Award
* Dr. Kevin Corbett. PhD (on sociological impact of antibody, T cell and viral load/PCR tests), Independent Research Consultant, London, UK.
* Dr. Mae-Wan Ho. PhD, Geneticist and Biophysicist, Open University, London, UK. Director, Institute of Science in Society; Author and activist. Awarded the Chan Kai Ming Prize for Biological Sciences (HK) 1964; Fellow of the National Genetics Foundation (USA) 1971-1974; Vida Sana Award (Spain) 1998
* Dr. Gerardo Sanchez. PhD, Nutritionist, Miami, Florida; Author, "VIH/SIDA, Una Gran Mentira" (HIV/AIDS, a Great Lie); President, USAS, Union por Soluciones Alternativas para el SIDA (Organization for Alternative Solutions for AIDS) and Director of www.sidainformatica.org
* Halton Arp. BS Harvard University, PhD, California Institute of Technology. Astrophysicist, Max-Planck-Institute for Astrophysics, Munich, Germany; awarded the Helen B. Warner Prize of the American Astronomical Society, the Newcomb Cleveland Award of the American Association for the Advancement of Science and the Alexander von Humboldt Senior Scientist Award; President of the Astronomical Society of the Pacific, 1980 to 1983. Author of "The Atlas of Peculiar Galaxies," "Quasars, Redshifts and Controversies" and "Seeing Red: Redshifts, Cosmology and Academic Science"
* Abdulalim A. Shabazz. MSc, M.I.T., PhD, Cornell Univ.; Distinguished Prof. of Mathematics, Lincoln University, Pennsylvania. Former chair, Mathematics Dept., Atlanta Univ.; American Assn. for the Advancement of Science "Mentor Award" (1992); National Assn. Of Mathematicians Distinguished Service Award; 1995 recipient of the QEM/MSE "Giants in Science" Award
* Robert O. Young. DSc, PhD. Researcher into the impact of foods and liquids on the delicate pH balance of blood plasma and cells. Author of "The pH Miracle: Balance Your Diet, Reclaim Your Health", and "Sick and Tired? Reclaim Your Inner Terrain".
* Lodewyk Kock. PhD, Professor of Biotechnology, University of the Free State, Bloemfontein, South Africa. Awarded Joint Runner-Up Prize in Research and Innovation from SA's National Science and Technology Forum (2002)
* Stoffer Loman. PhD, Pharmaceutical Chemist, Utrecht, Netherlands
* Yang-chu Higgins. Medical Anthropologist, Washington, DC. Winner of the Fogarty Award for Biomedical Research from the National Institutes of Health (1995)
* Ricardo Sánchez. PhD, Biochemistry, Mexicali, Mexico
* Mary Sevigny. PhD, Molecular Biology, University of California, Berkeley. Cancer researcher, University of California, San Francisco. Lecturer in Biology, Napa Valley College (2004-5). Adjunct professor in Microbiology, Dominican University (2006-). Member, American Societies for Biochemmistry and Molecular Biology and Cell Biology.
* Rochus Börner. PhD, Mathematics, Arizona State University. Science writer
* George Davidson. MB ChB, PhD, Biophysicist, Biochemist, Physician. Bronte Stuart Prize-winner UCT, Senior Research Scientist, biotech pharmaceutical R&D, Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
* Vernon Coleman. MD, D.Sc., Hon. Professor of Holistic Medical Sciences at the Open International University, Sri Lanka. Author of the bestsellers "Bodypower", "Mrs. Caldicot's Cabbage War", "How To Stop Your Doctor Killing You" and over 90 other books that have been translated into 23 languages. Author of over 5,000 articles in leading British publications. Former editor, British Clinical Journal. Awarded the Yellow Emperor's Certificate of Excellence as Physician of the Millenium by the Medical Alternativa Institute (2000)
* Ingrid Fernando. DVM, PhD in Cell/Molecular Biology, Bethesda, Maryland
* David Lueker. PhD. Full Professor Emeritus of Immunology, Colorado State University, Fort Collins, USA
* Sir David Smith. MA, DPhil, FRS, FRSE. Biologist. Fellow of the Royal Society. Founder Member of the International Society of Endocytobiology. Principle of Edinburgh University 1989 - 1994. Head of the largest graduate college (Wolfson) Oxford University 1994 - 2000. Currently government adviser on environmental concerns.
* Phyllis Pease. DSc, PhD, Former Senior Lecturer in Medical Microbiology, University of Birmingham, UK. Continued work at University of Toulouse, France. Author 'AIDS, Cancer and Arthritis: A New Perspective' (2005) and 'L-Forms, Episomes and Autoimmune Disease' (1965)
* Lynn Margulis. PhD, Biologist, Distinguished Professor of Geosciences, University of Massachusetts at Amherst. Originated the Endosymbiotic Theory for the origin of eukaryotic cells in 1966, which was ridiculed for years by the scientific establishment until proven in the 1980s. Recipient of the National Medal of Science (1999). Member of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences. Elected to the National Academy of Sciences in 1983. Author of over 130 scientific works and the books, "Origin of Eukaryotic Cells", "Early Life", "Symbiosis as a Source of Evolutionary Innovation: Speciation and Morphogenesis", "Symbiotic Planet: A New Look at Evolution", "The Ice Chronicles: The Quest to Understand Global Climate Change" and many others. The Library of Congress started to permanently archive all of her papers in 1998.
* James MacAllister. Medical Documentary Film Maker. Winner of many awards including First Prize in the Health Science Communications Association Awards, 1989, Continuing Education for Physicians category for "Surgical Implantation Dermaport Peritoneal Dialysis Catheter"; New England Chapter American Medical Writers Association, 1991, Audiovisual Award of Excellence for "Recent Advances in Cranial Perforation"; 1992 Video Publishing Award of Excellence for "Minimizing Post Dural Puncture Headaches"; 1993 Video Publishing Award of Excellence for "Institute for the Study of Cardiovascular and Muscle Diseases"; 1996 William Solimene Award for Audiovisual Media for "Living Well with Diabetes Type I" and many others.
* John Stenström. PhD. Department of Microbiology. Swedish University of Agricultural Sciences. Uppsala. Sweden
* Gordon Burns. PhD. Professor of Cancer Research, Previous recipient of federal AIDS funding, Newcastle, Australia.
* Joel Kauffman. PhD in Organic Chemistry, MIT. Emeritus Professor of Chemistry, University of the Sciences in Philadelphia. A specialist in exploratory drug development, he obtained grants and contracts from the US National Institutes of Health, the Department of Energy, the Office of Naval Research, Army Research Office and various companies. Author of 80 papers on chemical and medical topics, and holder of 11 patents, including 2 on anti-tuberculosis drugs, Dr. Kauffman now works to expose fraud in medicine. Author, "Malignant Medical Myths: Why Medical Treatment Causes 200,000 Deaths in the USA Each Year".
* Dorion Sagan. Science writer for The New York Times, Bioscience, The Times Higher Education Supplement, Wired, Natural History, Coevolution Quarterly, The Smithsonian, The Sciences, The Science Teacher, Whole Earth, Omni, The Environmentalist, The Ecologist and The New York Times Book Review. Author or co-author of 16 books translated into 11 languages, including "Up From Dragons: The Evolution of Human Intelligence", "Acquiring Genomes", "Microcosmos", "Origins Of Sex", "Into the Cool: Energy Flow, Thermodynamics, and Life", and "What is Life?"
* Terry Michael. Executive Director, Washington Center for Politics & Journalism, and former Press Secretary, Democratic National Committee. Recipient of the "Distinguished Service Award" in 2001 from the Washington, DC, chapter of the Society of Professional Journalists and the "Presidential Award" in 2002 from the Association for Education in Journalism and Mass Communication. He has served as a guest lecturer on media and politics, in the US and abroad, for the US Department of State and is a former adjunct lecturer at George Washington University.
* Vincent Graziano. PhD, Mathematics. SUNY at Stony Brook.
* Andrew Paul Gutierrez. PhD. Professor of Ecosystem Science, University of California at Berkeley. Co-author of a report to the Governor of California on climate change. Editor of "Ecological Entomology" (2nd ed. 1999). Co-author of "Biological and Economic Foundations of Renewable Resource Exploitation" (1998), "Evaluating biological control of yellow starthistle (Centaurea solstitialis) in California" (2005), "Why do some Bt-cotton farmers in China continue to use high levels of pesticides?" (2005), "Physiologically based model of Bt cotton-pest interactions: I. Pink bollworm: resistance, refuges and risk" (2006) and "Eco-social analysis of an East African agropastoral system: management of tsetse and bovine trypanosomiasis" (in press).
* Dr. Philip C. Packard. PhD Economics (1962) and Master of Public Health, School of Public Health (1986), UC Berkeley. Professor of Economics, Institute of Social Studies, The Hague, Holland, 1965-9. Manager and Editor of Journal "Development and Change", 1969-71 and Corresponding Editor, 1971-81. Ford Foundation Advisor to Government of Tanzania, 1970-72. Senior Economist, Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations (FAO), Rome, 1972-84. University Fellow in Nutrition, Division of Nutritional Sciences, Cornell University, 1981-2. Advisor on Health and Education, African Development Bank, Abidjan, Ivory Coast, 1987-9. Fulbright Economics Professor, University of Botswana, 1989-90. Fulbright Economics Professor, University of Durban-Westville, Durban, South Africa 1995. Lecturer, Saint Mary's College of California 1990-2006. Lecturer, University of California Extension, Berkeley 2003-Present.
* Dr. A. Makata. Dipl (Clinical Medicine), MD (USSR), Certificate in Tropical Pathology (Japan), PhD in Pathology (Japan), DFM in Pathology (Australia). Consultant Forensic and Histopathologist, Head of Forensic Unit. Ministry of Health. Tanzania.
* Mohsen Fathi Najafi. PhD Biotechnology. Vaccine Researcher. Iran.
* William F. Shughart II. PhD. Barnard Distinguished Professor of Economics, and holder of the Robert M. Hearin Chair of Business Administration at the University of Mississippi. Formerly, economist at the Federal Trade Commission. Associate editor, "Southern Economic Journal"; Book review editor, "Public Choice" and "Managerial and Decision Economics" journals. Author of "Taxing Choice: The Predatory Politics of Fiscal Discrimination"; "The Elgar Companion to Public Choice: The Organization of Industry"; "Antitrust Policy and Interest-Group Politics". Co-author, "Modern Managerial Economics"; "The Causes and Consequences of Antitrust"; and "The Economics of Budget Deficits".
* Pablo Idahosa. PhD. Director, African Studies, York University. Toronto, Canada.

 

[Agent Chameleon]

My link beats your link!

http://www.quackwatch.org/04ConsumerEducation/null.html

A Critical Look at Gary Null's Activities and Credentials
Stephen Barrett, M.D.

Gary Null (1945– ) is one of the nation's leading promoters of dubious treatment for serious disease. He hosts radio and television talk shows; writes books and magazine articles; delivers lectures; and markets products through his Web site. According to an article in East West magazine, Null became interested in nutrition during his twenties while working as a short order cook in New York City, where he now resides. He researched the subject and wrote The Complete Guide to Health and Nutrition, which was published in 1972 and sold briskly after Null appeared on a succession of prominent talk shows. He began hosting radio shows around that time and eventually got his own show on WABC, the flagship radio station of the ABC network. Later he moved to WMCA, which broadcast Null's show on Sunday nights to many stations across the United States. For many years, he also hosted a daily show on WBAI and a Sunday evening program on WEVD in New York City. I have been tracking his activities since the mid-1970s.
Dubious Conclusions

Null is prone to see conspiracies behind many of the things he is concerned about. One of his targets has been the pharmaceutical industry, which, he says, "cannot afford to have an alternative therapy accepted." He promotes hundreds of ideas that are inaccurate, unscientific, and/or unproven. He calls fluoridation "deadly" and has spoken out against immunization, food irradiation, amalgam fillings, and many forms of proven medical treatment. His series on "The Politics of Cancer," which was published in Penthouse magazine in 1979 and 1980, promoted unproven methods that he said were being "suppressed" by the medical establishment. His lengthy series, "Medical Genocide," began appearing in Penthouse in 1985 with an article calling our medical care system a "prescription for disaster" and claiming that modern medicine has had virtually no effect on heart disease, cancer, and arthritis [1]. Other articles in the series promoted chiropractic and homeopathy, claimed that effective nutritional methods for treating AIDS were being suppressed, claimed that chelation therapy was safe and effective for treating heart disease, and endorsed several treatments for cancer that the American Cancer Society recommends against. His Web site contains a huge amount of misinformation and bad advice.
Questionable Offerings

Over the years, Null has marketed a variety of supplement products. In the mid-1980s, his catalog included: Guard-Ion (an antioxidant formula claimed to help protect athletes from free radicals the body can't control), Gary Null's AM-PM Vitamin-Mineral Formula (a "revolutionary breakthrough in vitamin preparation" that provides the nutrients needed at the best times for the body's anabolic and catabolic activities), Candida Complex (to bolster the body's defenses against yeast infection), Endurance Factor (containing "all the nutrients and enzymes that have made Bee Pollen famous"), Energy Plus (a royal jelly tablet), Rebalancer (a "cleansing formulation" for adults exposed to air pollutants, pesticides, or preservatives, or who have "internal metabolic imbalances"), CoEnzyme Q10 ("may reverse deficiencies and improve organ function, especially in the heart), Sport DMG (an N,N Dimethylglycine product to "improve cardiovascular function and to enhance the body's natural immune response system), and Gary Null's Immune Nutrients ("to nourish and stimulate immune function, not merely at a marginal level of preventing disease and degeneration, but a positive level of striving for wellness and excellence, for optimal health").

A 1991 flyer distributed at Null's booth at a health expo described Null's annual "Spring Cleansing, Rebuilding, Stress Reduction Program" at a ranch near Dallas, Texas. The week-long program included aerobic exercise, various sports activities, a fitness assessment, beauty and skin-care treatments, cooking classes, acupressure, applied kinesiology, herbal body wraps, massage, brain-wave stimulation, facials, aromatherapy, reflexology, and loofah apricot scrubs. Null sold the ranch in 1994 [2].

In 1992, Null appeared in a bee pollen infomercial whose producers subsequently were prosecuted by the Federal Trade Commission. During the program, Null falsely claimed the human body ages because it doesn't produce enough enzymes, and that "you can't get any better food than bee pollen" because it is "loaded" with enzymes," but the FTC did not charge him with wrongdoing. According to the infomercial company's president, the interview was taped for another purpose, was dubbed into the infomercial without Null's knowledge or consent, and was deleted from the infomercial after Null demanded its removal [3].

Null's recent offerings include the following—each followed by a bracketed comment from me:

* Brainy II—"Power packed with Phosphatidyl Serine, herbs, amino acids, anti-oxidants and B-vitamins to help you achieve optimal brain function." [How has he determined that the product can help people improve brain function?]
* Anti-Aging Program—"Every flavorful sip of the "Aromatic Shake" contains seven of my most successful formulas for promoting age-reducing properties directed at maintaining nutritional and total wellness. [What is an age-reducing property? What is total wellness? Can any product maintain total wellness?]
* Detox Formula—"A gentle, highly comprehensive balance of botanicals used in traditional Western and Asian herbal systems to aid the body in its internal cleansing" [What is "internal cleansing"?]
* Eternal Herbal Supplement—"A potent rebalancer and herbal tonic for both men and women." [What gets "rebalanced"? How can people tell whether they are "out of balance"?]
* Gary's Green Stuff—the product of the low temperature dehydration of green chlorophyll-rich foods that are also sources of phytonutrients, essential fatty acids, amino acids, anti-oxidants and trace minerals. Available in powder or capsule form. Awarded a Seal of Approval from the Diabetes Resource Center. [People can and should get the phytonutrients they need from foods. Chlorophyll has no health-related value for humans [4]. The Diabetes Resource Center [5], which was operated by a woman who had no health-related credentials, ceased operations in 1998.]
* Null-Trim—a powdered mix containing protein from both soy and rice sources, carbohydrates and other nutrients such as guar, chromium, gamma oryzanol and lipoic acid which make this formulation ideal for weight loss or exercise programs. [I see nothing among the ingredients that I believe is useful for weight-loss or exercise programs.]

Curious Credentials

Null says he holds an associate degree in business administration from Mountain State College in West Virginia, a bachelor's degree from Thomas A. Edison State College in New Jersey, and a PhD in human nutrition and public health sciences from The Union Institute in Cincinnati, Ohio. Two papers he co-authored during the early 1980s identified him as Gary Null, M.S," but I have seen no information about the source of that credential.

Edison State is a "nontraditional" school with neither campus nor courses. It is accredited but awards accredited bachelor's degrees based on career experience, equivalency exams, and courses taken at other schools. In the late 1980s, a prominent college guidebook described it this way:

Thomas A. Edison State College, established in 1972, administers an external degree program that enables qualified students to earn or work toward a college degree without attending college in the usual way. There is no resident faculty, no campus, no classrooms, and no library. Administrative officers in Trenton evaluate college-level learning achieved through work or life experiences, self-study, college courses taken previously, industry-sponsored education programs, military instruction, etc. The college administers its own examinations in the liberal arts and sciences, business, and radiologic technology under the Thomas Edison College Examination Program [6].

The Union Institute is also accredited, but its degree requirements and standards for health-related doctoral degrees differ greatly from those of most traditional universities. Students design their own program, form and chair their own doctoral committee, and are required to attend only an introductory colloquium and a few interdisciplinary seminars. Null's thesis, entitled "A Study of Psychological and Physiological Effects of Caffeine on Human Health," was approved in in August 1989. The approval document states that his PhD committee was composed of a "core faculty member," three "adjunct professors," two "peers," and a "second core reader." The "core faculty member," Peter Fenner, was a well-credentialed academician whose expertise (in geologic sciences) was not related to Null's topic. One of the three "adjunct professors" was Martin Feldman, MD, a "complementary" physician (and "clinical ecologist") who has pinch-hit for Null as a radio host, and helped develop some of Null's books and supplement formulations. The other two were Philip J. Hodes and Elayne Kahn. When I asked a school official about their background or location, he replied that information was in storage and was too difficult to obtain. In 2005, I located mention of "Dr. Philip Jay Hodes, Ph.D, Ed.D., Practitioner Holistic, Health Detoxification & Orthomolecular Nutritionist, Consultant" on a Web site that sells "natural tropical herbal medicines." [7] I also discovered that Elayne Kahn is a psychologist in New York City who coauthored a book with Null that was published in 1976 [8].

Traditional universities require that research for a doctoral degree in a scientific discipline make a genuine contribution to the scientific literature. Null's thesis made no such contribution. The stated purpose of his project was to evaluate (a) caffeine's effects on "adrenal function determined by a medical examination," (b) "its perceived psychological effects as recorded in a questionnaire and daily diary, and (c) "the anabolic effect of caffeine according to a theory proposed by Dr. E. Revici." (Emanuel Revici, MD, was a physician in New York City whose methods were disparaged by the American Cancer Society. State licensing authorities placed Revici on probation in 1988 and revoked his license in 1993 after concluding that he had violated the terms of his probation.)

The first part of Null's thesis summarized information about caffeine published mainly in scientific journals. The data for the report of his study were obtained by observing two groups of volunteers. One group contained eleven chronic caffeine users who stopped their caffeine intake for a week and then took caffeinated tea for a week. The other group contained six nonusers who drank caffeinated tea for one week and then drank decaffeinated tea. The total number of participants is unclear. Null's thesis states that six others who began in the first group and five others who began in the second group dropped out of the study because they were uncomfortable. It also states that "at least thirteen" other users were disqualified for noncompliance.

The "medical evaluation" included two tests. One compared each volunteer's blood pressure when lying down and when standing up. The other was a chemical test for the amount of sodium and chloride in the urine. Null claims that these tests can detect "diminished adrenal function." Unfortunately for his thesis, they have no practical value for this purpose. The method Null used to determine "the anabolic effect of caffeine" involved measurement of the specific gravity, pH (acidity), and surface tension of single samples of the urine—a test used by Revici. Null noted that the theory behind the test "is still the subject of debate and has not yet gained wide scientific support"—which is a rather strange way to describe a test that is utterly worthless for any medical purpose and could never gain widespread scientific acceptance. The specific gravity of urine reflects the concentration of dissolved substances and depends largely on the amount of fluid a person consumes. The acidity depends mainly on diet, but varies considerably throughout the day. Thus, even when these values are useful for a metabolic determination, information from a single urine sample would be meaningless. The surface tension of urine has no medically recognized diagnostic value.

Following 41 pages of findings, calculations, tables, and graphs, Null concluded that "chronic caffeine users tend to have diminished adrenal function, which he blamed on "exhaustion" of the glands. "Fortunately," he added, "there are non-drug nutritional programs which have the ability to repair or rebalance weakening adrenal glands toward normal." The program consisted of "diminishing stressors," implementing strategies to diminish anxiety, and taking doses of five vitamins and three other products.

In January 2005, I received a threatening letter from attorney David Slater, General Counsel for Gary Null & Associates, Inc., who demanded that I remove a previous version of this article from Quackwatch. One part of the letter complained:

You also attack Mr. Null's Ph.D. thesis, written over 25 years ago, on the negative effects of caffeine on human health. You say that it “contributes nothing.” Despite your assertion that the thesis was meritless, two updated versions of the paper were accepted for publication in the Journal of Applied Nutrition (Volume 33, No.1, 1981) and the Journal of Orthomolecular Psychiatry (Vol. 13 1st Quarter 1984). We understand that only a small percentage of Ph.D. theses are actually accepted for publication in a peer reviewed scientific journal, and Mr. Null's thesis was published in two different ones. Moreover, Mr. Null's original clinical and laboratory work demonstrating the deleterious effects of caffeine on the human body became a catalyst for subsequent research on the topic by other scientists. Based on his original findings about caffeine, Null's advocacy against caffeine has now become a major public health position. Accordingly, it is inaccurate for you to state that Mr. Null's Ph.D. thesis about caffeine contributed "nothing." [2]

After comparing the articles to Null's PhD thesis, I made the following observations:

* Since Null's thesis was published in 1989, I don't see how "updated versions" of it could have been published in 1981 and 1984.
* The 1981 and 1984 articles have multiple authors [9,10]. Null is not listed as lead author of either one. The papers give no indication of who contributed what to the paper.
* The 1981 article was a summary of published information about caffeine that was similar to the summary in Null's thesis.
* The 1984 article reported a study of 11 volunteers which is similar to the one reported in Null's thesis. It is not clear whether the thesis was based on the same data or whether Null did a second study.
* Neither journal has much of a reputation. As far as I can tell, neither one is indexed by MEDLINE.
* My MEDLINE search for "Null G" found only one article that was coauthored by Null and appeared in a pharmacy magazine [11].

When I asked Slater to clarify the time frames and to tell me where Null got the "M.S." degree listed after his name in the articles, he replied: "My client has instructed me to cease all further communications with you. He repeats his demand that you remove the offensive and libelous material from your website or face legal action." [12]

Additional questions remain. Has Null completed any science-based courses related to nutrition and public health? If so, (a) what did he take, (b) when did he take them, (c) did any of them involve classroom attendance, and (d) were any of them related to his degrees? I also wonder when he enrolled in The Union Institute. In response to these questions, Slater replied that Null will not provide further information about his transcripts, coursework, or other details related to his degrees and that he regarded my request as intrusive and an invasion of his privacy [13]. Why do you suppose he said that?
References

1. Null G. Prescription for disaster. Penthouse Magazine, Sept. 1985.
2. Slater DM. Letter to Dr. Stephen Barrett, Jan 25, 2005.
3. Barrett S. Gary Null and the bee pollen infomercial. Quackwatch, March 1, 2005.
4. Lowell JA. Amazing claims for chlorophyll. Nutrition Forum, May 1987.
5. Barrett S. The Diabetes Resource Center: What does it's "seal of approval" mean? Quackwatch, Feb 4, 2005.
6. Peterson's Four-Year Colleges, circa 1988.
7. Yodel Inc. Home Page, accessed March 3, 2005.
8. Null G, Kahn E. Wholebody Health and Sex Book. New York: Kensington Publishing Corp., 1976.
9. Bolton S, Null G, Pressman AH. Caffeine: Its effects, uses and abuses. The Journal of Applied Nutrition 33(1):35–53, 1981.
10. Bolton S, Feldman M, Null G, Revici E, and Stumper L. A pilot study of some physiological effects of caffeine. Journal of Orthomolecular Psychiatry 13(1):34–41, 1984.
11. Bolton S, Null G, Troetel WM. The medical uses of garlic: fact and fiction. American Pharmacist Aug 1982, pp 40–43.
12. Slater DM. E-mail message to Dr. Stephen Barrett, March 2, 2005.
13. Slater DM. Letter to Dr. Stephen Barrett, Feb 18, 2005.

 

[Agent Chameleon]

In case you're wondering what the point of that last post was, it was to show that gary null's list is questionable. I wonder how many of those "supporters" were misquoted and gary nulls makes them seem like they are AIDS denialists.

 

[dannno]

Nice hit piece.

 

[Agent Chameleon]

Nice hit piece.

<3

 

[M House]

It'll mean alot fucking more if you actually read a position held by just one these guys, dissect it for yourself then research the result and bring something on your own to the table here. You can read for example alittle about the mechanisms involved just using wikipedia. One thing I wonder about is if the difference in transmission between men and women has to do a bit with different hormonal regulation of the autoimmune system. Testosterone seemingly inhibits part of the cytokine production cycle. Maybe the high levels plasma testosterone in men naturally impair the spread of different elements involved with HIV transmission in the autoimmune system. So taking this a step further would possibly tweaking the hormones in a common BC pack to reduce testosterone clearance in women provide a similar benefit? Simply allowing them to keep this level higher for a bit longer might provide an edge there without too many side-effects.

 

[Agent Chameleon]

It'll mean alot fucking more if you actually read a position held by just one these guys, dissect it for yourself then research the result and bring something on your own to the table here. You can read for example alittle about the mechanisms involved just using wikipedia. One thing I wonder about is if the difference in transmission between men and women has to do a bit with different hormonal regulation of the autoimmune system. Testosterone seemingly inhibits part of the cytokine production cycle. Maybe the high levels plasma testosterone in men naturally impair the spread of different elements involved with HIV transmission in the autoimmune system. So taking this a step further would possibly tweaking the hormones in a common BC pack to reduce testosterone clearance in women provide a similar benefit? Simply allowing them to keep this level higher for a bit longer might provide an edge there without too many side-effects.

Why do I have to treat insane positions as valid?

This is the same exact problem as in the Holocaust Denial thread a couple of months ago. People keep demanding that I watch these stupid videos and read these crackpot articles and somehow treat them as legitimate.

You can't argue with insanity. The best thing I was trying to do was show how sketchy dannno and sam's links were, and hopefully other people reading this thread will be alert to that fact and hold what they say with a heavy grain of salt.

 

[NaT805]

United States Patent 5,676,977
Antelman October 14, 1997

Method of curing AIDS with tetrasilver tetroxide molecular crystal devices

Abstract

The diamagnetic semiconducting molecular crystal tetrasilver tetroxide (Ag.sub.4 O.sub.4) is utilized for destroying the AIDS virus, destroying AIDS synergistic pathogens and immunity suppressing moieties (ISM) in humans. A single intravenous injection of the devices is all that is required for efficacy at levels of about 40 PPM of human blood. The device molecular crystal contains two mono and two trivalent silver ions capable of "firing" electrons capable of electrocuting the AIDS virus, pathogens and ISM. When administered into the bloodstream, the device electrons will be triggered by pathogens, a proliferating virus and ISM, and when fired will simultaneously trigger a redox chelation mechanism resulting in divalent silver moieties which chelate and bind active sites of the entities destroying them. The devices are completely non-toxic. However, they put stress on the liver causing hepatomegaly, but there is no loss of liver function.

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...XT&s1=5676977.PN.&OS=PN/5676977&RS=PN/5676977

 

[tmosley]

http://garynull.com/dissidents_list.html

Hmmm...you've got a lot of names there, but only about half of them appear to do anything even remotely related to AIDS, and most of those are from two bit institutions, or have no institutions listed, or from foreign countries and thus unlikely to be contacted.

I was going to write up a full-fledged rebuttal of Null's thesis, but I think Dr. Barrett has done a good job.

As to Dr. Duesburg, your Wikipedia link does a great job of discrediting him and his ideas, citing several of the same factors I cited before reading or even familiarizing myself with the AIDS denial movement.

 

[dannno]

Why do I have to treat insane positions as valid?

This is the same exact problem as in the Holocaust Denial thread a couple of months ago. People keep demanding that I watch these stupid videos and read these crackpot articles and somehow treat them as legitimate.

You can't argue with insanity. The best thing I was trying to do was show how sketchy dannno and sam's links were, and hopefully other people reading this thread will be alert to that fact and hold what they say with a heavy grain of salt.

Well at least you're finally willing to admit that you're brainwashed.

 

[dannno]

As to Dr. Duesburg, your Wikipedia link does a great job of discrediting him and his ideas, citing several of the same factors I cited before reading or even familiarizing myself with the AIDS denial movement.

Anything specific about AIDS in there, or was it just some people's opinions and accusations that you agreed with? That's all I could find.

You must not be very familiar with character assassination methods. You should study the Clintons, they are the best.