AFTF is a boring video that won't win many votes

[Alabama Supporter]

I know most people on this board really appreciate the movie America: Freedom to Facism. AFTF is BORING people.

Please show them actual Ron Paul footage from debates or rally's. How long does it take before RP is even interviewed on AFTF? People have short attention spans. We are trying to win an election people.

 

[Nathan Hale]

True, I saw AFTF and I wasn't impressed. For one, Russo goes from legitimate issues in the beginning, gradually seguing into paranoid conspiracy stuff by the end. He also puts quotes on the screen and reads the quote. Instead of doing that, why not put up pictures like on the History Channel and read the quote over that? There's a lot of a criticisms I have about the movie, but the biggest is the fact that Russo's graphic displays are amateur at best, especially in the end, when he does that extremely overlong version of An Inconvenient Truth's list of "things to do". Invest in some fonts or screen text designers!

 

[Spirit of '76]

I haven't seen the movie, but I think we should just stick to Ron Paul.

His debate footage, speeches, etc. will wake people up. Then, if they're still interested, they can watch other movies and things to learn more.

 

[Devil_rules_in_extremes]

I thought America: Freedom to Facism was a good documentary...

I have no problems with it, and Ron Paul is even IN the movie. I know it takes him a while to appear, but I think it's still decent.

 

[AFTFNJ]

Alot of people woke up due to that movie....that movie is more about content then glitz but yes people have short attn spans so money as debt is better.

 

[Nathan Hale]

It's important to have both content AND glitz. Content is great and all, but I'll take 1776 by David McCullough over a revolutionary war textbook any day of the week. At the end of the day, the best way to expose people to new ideas is to present those ideas in a way that is informative AND entertaining. It's the entertaining part of the equation that draws the people in and the information that keeps them. Russo went too much for information, ignoring the fact that he had marketing, sales, and presentation to consider.

 

[Kregener]

Yeah, loss of liberty and freedom bores the hell out of me...

 

[Brandybuck]

Russo (and Griffith, Banister, Schiff, et al) do mean well. At least I think they mean well. But they're using very disingenuous means to support their conclusion. Not many facts are actually presented in the movie, it's mostly assertion and emotional hype. But when you get to the conspiracists books and the "facts", you realize there's not much there either. It's all conclusion building.

For example, the assertion that the 16th amendment was never ratified. But the evidence to prove that (capitalization errors, claims that Ohio was not a state until 1952, etc) also apply to amendments before and after it. Are the 11th through 15th amendments bogus as well? They also claim that "income" does not mean wages and salaries, that that is a modern definition. Yet the contemporaneous Webster's 1913 dictionary does indeed define it that way: http://www.hyperdictionary.com/search.aspx?define=income. The law that Russo says does not exist, does exist! It's Title 26 USC.

Pretending the income tax is myth doesn't do a damned thing to get rid of the income tax. The 16th amendment needs to be repealed! But you cannot repeal it by arguing that it doesn't exist and thus needs to repealing!

I'll let a far more respectable Libertarian argue the case: http://www.fff.org/freedom/fd0608b.asp

 

[TruthBeKnown]

If the law did exist, why hasn't anyone from the IRS or the courts , or Congress presented it to the people?

If ratification of the 16th Amendment wasn't followed to the "t", then it wasn't ratified. The fact is, the law is the law, and the rules are the rules. If I don't follow "the rules" of how to submit even a sweepstakes entry, then my entry is claimed invalid & I don't win! If I don't submit my court papers all in good order, by the deadline, I lose. If I don't pay my taxes by the deadline, & have all the required forms filled out correctly & signed correctly, I pay a fine! The same requirements to follow the rules should apply even more so, to Congress & other lawmakers - especially when creating laws or Constitutional amendments. Otherwise, this is a government of tyrants who say, "do as I say, not as I do."

I was under the impression that the Supreme Court ruled that the 16th amendment was not intended to apply to our labor because our labor is actually the exchange of our bodies & intelligence, which are God given & the State cannot tax our bodies or our intelligence.

 

[TruthBeKnown]

Look up Ron Paul's legislation introduced earlier this year: H.J. Res. 23:

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/D?d110:3:./temp/~bdGybV::|/bss/d110query.html|

H.J.RES.23
Title: Proposing an amendment the Constitution of the United States relative to abolishing personal income, estate, and gift taxes and prohibiting the United States Government from engaging in business in competition with its citizens.
Sponsor: Rep Paul, Ron [TX-14] (introduced 2/7/2007)

Let's get on the horn & contact all the people on the committee & tell them to pass this thing forward!

 

[Nathan Hale]

If the law did exist, why hasn't anyone from the IRS or the courts , or Congress presented it to the people?

They argue that Congress' approval of the IRS was de facto legislating of the IRS code, which contains the "law" so often referred to by tax rights advocates.

If ratification of the 16th Amendment wasn't followed to the "t", then it wasn't ratified.

A third party organization should research this and let us know the facts of the situation. I have yet to see a group both assert and prove the assertion that the 16th amendment wasn't ratified.

 

[Nathan Hale]

Yeah, loss of liberty and freedom bores the hell out of me...

Not everybody thinks like us. We need to remember this. If people are exposed to an idea like the illegality of the income tax in the wrong way they'll reject the idea, just as most of us reject many pop culture theories or hypotheses. The key is to present the new ideas in a way that they accept, and that requires them to be pulled in by style in order to be snared by substance.

It's a legitimate strategy. The substance is still presented. Not everybody is a political academic immersed in this as we are.

 

[Question_Authority]

I know most people on this board really appreciate the movie America: Freedom to Facism. AFTF is BORING people.

Please show them actual Ron Paul footage from debates or rally's. How long does it take before RP is even interviewed on AFTF? People have short attention spans. We are trying to win an election people.

This movie instantly sent my brother into high gear a few weeks ago, and now he is a avid Paul supporter and is getting involved in politics for the first time in his life at the age of 49. Just sayin'.

 

[dsentell]

If AFTF only wins over two supporters -- that's two we did not have before. It will win over some and every one counts!

Different things work for different people. Just so we find a way to get all these different groups to support Dr. Paul.

AFTF will work for some, but may turn off others. No restrictions on guns will work for some, but may turn off others. Immediate withdrawal from Iraq will work for some, but may turn off others.

I try to get a feel for the people I am talking to to get an idea of what will win them over to Ron Paul. Let them talk a little and listen to what they say. Pinpoint interest, then make a targeted strike!

 

[lucius]

If AFTF only wins over two supporters -- that's two we did not have before. It will win over some and every one counts!

Different things work for different people. Just so we find a way to get all these different groups to support Dr. Paul.

AFTF will work for some, but may turn off others. No restrictions on guns will work for some, but may turn off others. Immediate withdrawal from Iraq will work for some, but may turn off others.

I try to get a feel for the people I am talking to to get an idea of what will win them over to Ron Paul. Let them talk a little and listen to what they say. Pinpoint interest, then make a targeted strike!

I agree, we need to tailor our messages, but if you wake somebody up with AFTF, they are on fire, full of zeal!

 

[Alabama Supporter]

OK, I shouldn't have painted such a broad stroke, but we have volunteers passing out these movies to the general public instead Ron Paul footage.

Of course you want to tailor your message, but there are much better tools for the general public than AFTF.