Advice for buying a rifle

Regarding the HK416, I wouldn't put 5.56 NATO in anything less than an 18" barrel. Firing 5.56 from a 16" barrel means the round is woefully underpowered past 400 yards. As much as I like the SCAR-L, I wouldn't get the CQB version either, unless I also had the upper receiver with an 18-20" barrel and could swap into the 16" barrel just specifically for CQB where it becomes an asset.

I am a big fan of the gas-piston conversions, as I hate direct impingement, and if I did manage to shell out the money for the LMT308 I would try to get a working gas piston op-rod conversion. I have to pay some $2000 as a delegate to the RNC however, so that delays my LMT308MWS 20" purchase by close to another year I think. :(

The SCAR is a good weapon for this class also, particularly with the modular design and easily swappable upper/lower combos.

I like the full length AR M16 in 5.56, and with proper weapons maintenance it is ridiculously reliable with a premium brand like Colt, but the M4 short barrel (M-forgeries) can stay in the gun store where they belong. Short barrels just do not work with the 5.56 NATO (except for CQB only) and they never will.
 
The Pygmies used to do it by digging a tiny pit in the trail, having one man get in it, then covering him with debris. As the elephant passed over him, he would straighten up, spear held in both hands, using all of his leg power to drive the point deep up into the animal's guts. Then they'd follow the trail until the animal died. Of course, every now and then, the elephant would step just "wrong" and another martyr to the tribe would get added to the wailing list.
 
u think that the 223 does poorly in a short barrel, try a 308 in an 11" barrel! :-) 2000 fps and no more "reach' than an sks has. You can get a 60 gr Nosler Partition SP to 2700 fps in an M4, which is 1000 ft lbs of power, the same as a 6" .44 mag revolver with a VERY powerful load in the .44. Anyone who "thinks" that that much power is inadequate and I mean to several hundred yds, is ignorant of the facts of combat. Well over 90% of the actual killing in rifle combat is done under 100 yds, you know. Put 69 gr bthp match ammo in the M4, and it will still have as much power left at 400 yds as a .45 1911 has at 10 ft. Put a scope, trigger job, free float tube and bipod on it, and it will reliably hit men at 400 yds, and that's plenty of range and accuracy. Actually the piston conversions to the AR don't work well at all. they end up causing a lot of premature wear in the buffer area, it seems. there's nothing at all wrong with direct gas impingement, in semi auto for realistic employment, by intelligent, diligent men in the USA environment. Now, I realize that those 2 qualifying words leave out a lot of would be survivalists, but that's tough
 
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we don't live in Iraq and there is no reason at all for you to neglect and abuse your rifle. The AK was built for use by ignorannt peasants. If that is what you are, get one and be limited by it. Go the 2x a year machinegun shoot at KnobCreek, KY and SEE the AR performing while PLENTY dirty. These internet lies need to be put to rest.
 
I am still a bit little jealous of Gunny's Franchi ;) , one of these days , when I can come up with time , I will have to look at some and see if I can find one for myself ...
 
twisted said:
there's nothing at all wrong with direct gas impingement, in semi auto for realistic employment, by intelligent, diligent men in the USA environment. Now, I realize that those 2 qualifying words leave out a lot of would be survivalists, but that's tough
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Naw, it only causes pressurized and heated black carbon to be deposited all over your bolt carrier, and is the leading cause of jams and double feeds. Not only that, but it accumlulates fast as shit. Maybe if you'd quit running that dick holster reapeating ignorance you read on a gun forum, and actually got some experience, you'd know this.



twisted said:
we don't live in Iraq and there is no reason at all for you to neglect and abuse your rifle. The AK was built for use by ignorannt peasants. If that is what you are, get one and be limited by it. Go the 2x a year machinegun shoot at KnobCreek, KY and SEE the AR performing while PLENTY dirty. These internet lies need to be put to rest.
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Congratulations. You have proven to be yet another arm chair rambo that doesn't have a fucking clue about field enviorments with a weapon. Go to the field for 30+ days, and see how the AR platform performs when it's in mud and water all day long.
 
GunnyFreedom said:
Regarding the HK416, I wouldn't put 5.56 NATO in anything less than an 18" barrel. Firing 5.56 from a 16" barrel means the round is woefully underpowered past 400 yards. As much as I like the SCAR-L, I wouldn't get the CQB version either, unless I also had the upper receiver with an 18-20" barrel and could swap into the 16" barrel just specifically for CQB where it becomes an asset.

I am a big fan of the gas-piston conversions, as I hate direct impingement, and if I did manage to shell out the money for the LMT308 I would try to get a working gas piston op-rod conversion. I have to pay some $2000 as a delegate to the RNC however, so that delays my LMT308MWS 20" purchase by close to another year I think. :(

The SCAR is a good weapon for this class also, particularly with the modular design and easily swappable upper/lower combos.

I like the full length AR M16 in 5.56, and with proper weapons maintenance it is ridiculously reliable with a premium brand like Colt, but the M4 short barrel (M-forgeries) can stay in the gun store where they belong. Short barrels just do not work with the 5.56 NATO (except for CQB only) and they never will.
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I think the HK416 has a 20" barrel option build. I'm not sure, but it seems I read that somewhere. But again, I'm definitely waiting for more info on it before I commit to one. And I whole heartedly agree about the full size M16. I like the A2, as it was a very accurate and dependable weapon as long as you kept it properly clean and maintained, as you said. The only maintenance I ever had to get on one was replacing the firing pin, but that wear was mainly from using the pin to clean the weapon itself, trying to scrape the carbon off...lol
 
My ballistics calculator says 60gr with a MV of 2700 retains 168 ft/lbs (certainly not 1000!) at 400 yds. 128 ft/lbs at 500 yds.

Comparing the M855 at 400 yards with 186 ft/lbs of energy and calling it equivalent to a .44 Magnum ant 1ft with 1100 ft/lbs of energy is disingenuous at best.

If you are going to be using the weapon at point blank pistol range, then why not use a pistol or a SMG?
 
Intoxiklown said:
I think the HK416 has a 20" barrel option build. I'm not sure, but it seems I read that somewhere. But again, I'm definitely waiting for more info on it before I commit to one. And I whole heartedly agree about the full size M16. I like the A2, as it was a very accurate and dependable weapon as long as you kept it properly clean and maintained, as you said. The only maintenance I ever had to get on one was replacing the firing pin, but that wear was mainly from using the pin to clean the weapon itself, trying to scrape the carbon off...lol
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Probably, carbines 'look cooler' so they get advertised more, despite the fact that most folks with sense prefer a full size rifle, and manufacturers know that and very often sell the full size even if they don't put the advertising resources behind it. A good example is the LMT308 with which the longest barrel they advertise is 18" but they do sell the 20" barrel for enthusiasts.

If I'm buying a rifle, I want a RIFLE not a glorified friggin pistol.
 
oyarde said:
I am still a bit little jealous of Gunny's Franchi ;) , one of these days , when I can come up with time , I will have to look at some and see if I can find one for myself ...
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It's an awful nice shotgun, but the one and only opportunity I have had to shoot skeet I only had seriously underpowered birdshot and sucked massively. Shotguns are not in my 'expert zone' the way rifles are. With the Franchi I feel like a monkey holding a .75 mm precision screwdriver. :p
 
GunnyFreedom said:
It's an awful nice shotgun, but the one and only opportunity I have had to shoot skeet I only had seriously underpowered birdshot and sucked massively. Shotguns are not in my 'expert zone' the way rifles are. With the Franchi I feel like a monkey holding a .75 mm precision screwdriver. :p
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I shoot clays in the yard every now and then , I use # 9 shot winchester target loads , I have even hunted quail with those loads , you should try it more Glenn , gets fun when you get a bit better at it.
 
I never said it had 1000 ft lbs at 400 yds, but it has that much at the muzzle. The further away an enemy is, the less hard you have to hit him. If you are prone around cover, as you certainly SHOULD be for sniping type shots like 400 yds, he can't hit you BEFORE you put a 223 thru his chest. :-) Also, your calculator is VERY wrong, or you are misapplying it. The BC of the 69 gr hpbt is MUCH better than that of a plain based softpoint, and even that latter bullet has more power left at 400 yds than 128 ft lbs. It's still handy to have a 14.5" barrel and a 6.5" sound suppressor on a 223. It's NOT handy to have a 20" 308 barrel and the 10" of can necessary to adequately suppress it. to THINK of being in shtf, without a suppressor, is to be a fool. No more ammo than you are going to SUCCESSFULLY use in an encounter, as a civilian, fouling is no issue at all. That is only an issue for stupid troops who empty 300 rds in a minute, on full auto, hit NOTHING and go crying on the radio for air support and evac.
 
aint this a RIFLE thread? Why don't you start your OWN thread for the shotgun admiration crowd?
 
LOL suppressors on a supersonic round lmao, just more weight to carry around for no purpose whatsoever. Dunno what he did to get himself banned, but he sure was talking here like he knows a lot about stuff he has really no clue about. :D
 
GunnyFreedom said:
LOL suppressors on a supersonic round lmao, just more weight to carry around for no purpose whatsoever. Dunno what he did to get himself banned, but he sure was talking here like he knows a lot about stuff he has really no clue about. :D
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Is the saiga 12 sub- sonic?? Cause it already has threading on the barrel on mine..
 
Kotin said:
Is the saiga 12 sub- sonic?? Cause it already has threading on the barrel on mine..
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That's really for the choke. Shotguns can be very effectively choked to set the pattern spread.

It's possible, although extremely rare to suppress a 12ga.

 
GunnyFreedom said:
LOL suppressors on a supersonic round lmao, just more weight to carry around for no purpose whatsoever. Dunno what he did to get himself banned, but he sure was talking here like he knows a lot about stuff he has really no clue about. :D
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I dunno , is there a General Rudeness clause ? I was wondering if he was old enough to shave ....
 
I get on to people about the AK always reliable myth because it leads to unjustified over confidence that an AK is always going to work, no matter what. That type of over confidence can cause one to end up very dead, and it would be a tragedy for someone to end up dead by taking well intentioned, but bad advice.

Having unjustified confidence leads people to do this:



because they think that the AK is still going to work, no matter what. As GunnyFreedom mentioned, that also leads to laziness, not only in weapon care, but tactical awareness as well. M16 data on MTBS and MTBF is on the net, and running that weapon, the owner should be aware of its limitations. I don't see that type of reliability study on the AK - wonder why that is? AKs work very well within their design parameters, but have a limited life cycle (based on quality of construction, usually considered 6000 to 15.000 rounds). When getting toward the end of life, things tend to happen, such as:

and



Notice, that when the Israelis took the AK design, gave it a 5.56mm barrel and M16 magazines, the Galil did not last long in service, and there is little market demand for it.

It is good to test your weapons to see what they can take and still perform:



If an Ak is a good solution for you because of limited sight distance in your area, that works both ways. Visitors can get closer to you before making their presence known.
 
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