advice for 20 year old?

[wgadget]

Most of this, but I would add that if you are good at something obscure, do some research and see if there's money in it. Proofreading, for me, is a great job that I already did naturally (and annoyed the hell out of everyone with), and there really aren't that many people with skills in that area. I went to school with a guy who really wanted to run a funeral home. It seemed pretty strange, but frankly he's making excellent money, he doesn't mind the dead people, and that's distinctly one career with fairly good job security. You get the idea

Yep. I'm a musician (pianist) with a pretty tight niche. The good thing about being a musician is that you don't work for one employer 40 hours a week. You hit the pavement looking for as many different employers as you can find. I work for a church on Sundays, two different ballet schools through the week and I am a self-employed piano teacher.

On the side I'm a Latin teacher (how many of THOSE are there?) for a private school.

My advice: DIVERSIFY, and the more obscure the better.

 

[Blueskies]

Engineers, enigneering is dead in America.

Tell that to all my buddies (I'm in college right now) that have guaranteed internships this summer paying $20 an hour at engineering firms in this country.

Doctors, plenty to import, don't forget PAs.
Lawyers, dime a dozen.

Yes, there are many lawyers and many doctors. In the future, they may not make the $500k salaries that they do now or did in the past.

But still, its much much harder to become a doctor or a lawyer than it is to become an electrician or a carpenter. It's basic supply and demand--you'll have more carpenters and more electricians than doctors and lawyers, so they'll get paid more.

That's if you're going the college route (which as a general rule i advise against).

Why? Do you know how difficult it is to get a decent job without a college degree? Even if the job doesn't necessarily require it, most employers won't even consider an application if the applicant doesn't have a degree.

Don't worry about the debt. We're headed for a period of high inflation and/or dollar devaluation. That means the debt gets eroded.

 

[MelissaWV]

Tell that to all my buddies (I'm in college right now) that have guaranteed internships this summer paying $20 an hour at engineering firms in this country.

Yes, there are many lawyers and many doctors. In the future, they may not make the $500k salaries that they do now or did in the past.

But still, its much much harder to become a doctor or a lawyer than it is to become an electrician or a carpenter. It's basic supply and demand--you'll have more carpenters and more electricians than doctors and lawyers, so they'll get paid more.

Why? Do you know how difficult it is to get a decent job without a college degree? Even if the job doesn't necessarily require it, most employers won't even consider an application if the applicant doesn't have a degree.

Don't worry about the debt. We're headed for a period of high inflation and/or dollar devaluation. That means the debt gets eroded.

... Wow.

$20/hour? That doesn't really say much without information as to where in the country that is. "Engineer" is also such a huge umbrella title that it is also meaningless to the discussion. There are some fields in which engineers are sought after, and some in which there are far too many already. It's rather like doctors.

Lawyers and doctors are in such huge supply because we've got such a massive specialization going on in this country. Look up how many pediatric neurologists there are in the entire nation, and take a guess at what their waiting rooms look like. This is part of the reason so many general practitioners come from abroad. People here prefer to specialize whenever possible.

Electricians and carpenters are not cheap if you want an extensive job done. Again, if you're specializing you're going to make more as long as you're in demand. Depending on what you're talking about, it may be more difficult to get all your paperwork and learning done for certain sorts of electrical work... than it is to become a family doctor.

It is difficult to get a job without a college degree in some fields. It isn't in others. A lot of advertisements for positions state "college degree required" quite boldly, but I'm still called in for an interview. The phrase "equivalent experience" is a very powerful one. Fields in which you can pass a skills test and demonstrate your proficiency to the company, or for which you can show up with a portfolio, are very quick to throw that "degree" requirement out the window if you're really right for the job. It's important to really examine what skills are required for the career you want, and to have honest answers as to where those skills originate. Are they skills you get on the job? Is it complex anatomical or mathematical knowledge which you're likely not going to stumble across anywhere but college?

Lastly, for pity's sake don't act like debt is no big deal. Getting along on your salary is enough of a challenge. Having to put away globs of money to pay for an education that may or may not be paying for itself now, once you've graduated, makes it much harder. What ends up happening is that a lot of responsible people think they "have enough" to pay off those loans, but they are going through life without a savings/investment plan, and they are living paycheck to paycheck (or worse). Debt should be kept to a very teeny minimum. You're going to end up paying twice for college with a full student loan, essentially. Think of what you (and your family, which might exist by that time) could do with that money instead.

 

[Blueskies]

... Wow.

$20/hour? That doesn't really say much without information as to where in the country that is. "Engineer" is also such a huge umbrella title that it is also meaningless to the discussion. There are some fields in which engineers are sought after, and some in which there are far too many already. It's rather like doctors.

To be fair, I go to UofM, which has one of the most elite engineering programs in the country. But I know many different kinds of engineers--mechanical, electrical, software, computer, nuclear, petroleum--and none of them have had any trouble finding work. Most of it is out of state, but they've all had consistent summer internships and job offers after graduation.

I, myself, had a job offer after graduation as a software engineer. But I changed fields because I couldn't stand the monotony of programming.

Lawyers and doctors are in such huge supply because we've got such a massive specialization going on in this country. Look up how many pediatric neurologists there are in the entire nation, and take a guess at what their waiting rooms look like. This is part of the reason so many general practitioners come from abroad. People here prefer to specialize whenever possible.

Electricians and carpenters are not cheap if you want an extensive job done. Again, if you're specializing you're going to make more as long as you're in demand. Depending on what you're talking about, it may be more difficult to get all your paperwork and learning done for certain sorts of electrical work... than it is to become a family doctor.

I laughed out loud at the bolded part. Have you ever met anyone that was going to med school or doing residency?

The average income of a family doctor is about $200k. The average income of an electrician is $50k. I don't need to say anything more.

It is difficult to get a job without a college degree in some fields. It isn't in others. A lot of advertisements for positions state "college degree required" quite boldly, but I'm still called in for an interview. The phrase "equivalent experience" is a very powerful one. Fields in which you can pass a skills test and demonstrate your proficiency to the company, or for which you can show up with a portfolio, are very quick to throw that "degree" requirement out the window if you're really right for the job. It's important to really examine what skills are required for the career you want, and to have honest answers as to where those skills originate. Are they skills you get on the job? Is it complex anatomical or mathematical knowledge which you're likely not going to stumble across anywhere but college?

While its true that you can get a job without a degree if you have good experience, the question is--how are you going to get that experience? This isn't 10 or 20 years ago. You simply cannot find an entry level job without a college degree. Even if you're a good interview and everything, you'll be competing against so many other people with degrees that you won't stand a chance. Its unfortunate, but its true. The only way to circumvent this is to have a strong connection with someone who happens to work there.

Lastly, for pity's sake don't act like debt is no big deal. Getting along on your salary is enough of a challenge. Having to put away globs of money to pay for an education that may or may not be paying for itself now, once you've graduated, makes it much harder. What ends up happening is that a lot of responsible people think they "have enough" to pay off those loans, but they are going through life without a savings/investment plan, and they are living paycheck to paycheck (or worse). Debt should be kept to a very teeny minimum. You're going to end up paying twice for college with a full student loan, essentially. Think of what you (and your family, which might exist by that time) could do with that money instead.

From 1970 to 1980 the dollar lost 1/2 of its value. If you owed a debt of 50k in 1970, you really only owed 25k by 1980. You're on this board, so you believe that we will experience some high inflation in the future. Thus, I'm serious--don't worry about the debt. I don't mean to rampantly abuse the credit cards, but taking out loans for college is a good investment and you won't even have to pay most of it back.

 

[MelissaWV]

...I laughed out loud at the bolded part. Have you ever met anyone that was going to med school or doing residency?

The average income of a family doctor is about $200k. The average income of an electrician is $50k. I don't need to say anything more....

While its true that you can get a job without a degree if you have good experience, the question is--how are you going to get that experience? This isn't 10 or 20 years ago. You simply cannot find an entry level job without a college degree. Even if you're a good interview and everything, you'll be competing against so many other people with degrees that you won't stand a chance. Its unfortunate, but its true. The only way to circumvent this is to have a strong connection with someone who happens to work there.

From 1970 to 1980 the dollar lost 1/2 of its value. If you owed a debt of 50k in 1970, you really only owed 25k by 1980. You're on this board, so you believe that we will experience some high inflation in the future. Thus, I'm serious--don't worry about the debt. I don't mean to rampantly abuse the credit cards, but taking out loans for college is a good investment and you won't even have to pay most of it back.

On the top part, I was talking about comparing an electrician who is specializing versus a general practitioner.

GENERAL MEDICAL PRACTITIONERS diagnose and treat physical and mental illnesses, disorders and injuries, recommend preventive action and refer patients to specialist medical practitioners.

How much money do General Medical Practitioners make?

Salary Table

Earnings/Weekly
$1250

Earnings/Yearly
$67500

Electricians Salaries
ELECTRICIANS assemble, install, test and maintain electrical equipment and components, domestic and commercial electrical appliances and equipment, and service and repair lifts.

How much money do Electricians make?

Salary Table

Earnings/Weekly
$805

Earnings/Yearly
$43470

Of course, those that work with special cases will charge you an arm and a leg and make way, way more than that. Knob & tube replacement comes to mind, and there are some electricians that specialize on that and other issues particular to older homes. The purpose of my statement was not to compare a regular electrician to a regular general practitioner. If it were the purpose, I would have written it as such.

Getting experience is nowhere near as dire as people make it out to be. I'm not sure where you're "this isn't 20 years ago!" comment comes from. I wasn't eligible to work 20 years ago. You likely weren't, either, based on the context clues in your posts. You can find an entry level position without a college degree in some fields that meet the criteria I discussed. You're studying to be an engineer. For perfectly valid reasons, people are not eager to hire "self-taught" engineers. Have you really explored the options out there, or are you just recycling a line There are a lot of good positions that require certifications rather than degrees. The test to become an insurance agent, in the states I'm familiar with at least, are pretty basic and don't have a college degree as a prerequisite. Commission is a nice bonus, but base pay can be just fine on its own. As you build a book of business, your pay goes up, your commissions grow, and you simply make more money. As an upside, you don't have any debt to worry about.

Of course, you're entitled to your opinion that going into debt is no big deal. People have been thinking that for a long, long time. It hasn't really paid off for most of them (unless they're in politics... then it's a way of life).

 

[Blueskies]

Where did you get that table? Every site I can find off google for average income of a GMP puts them around $150-200k.

As for getting experience, its hard to judge accurately how difficult it is to get a job with or without a college degree. I base my judgement on what I see. For example, my dad owns a company. He needs to hire a cold call sales person. Job requires no college degree. He advertises for the job and gets 40 applications within a week. 35 of them have college degrees. Guess who's going to select?

Of course, you're entitled to your opinion that going into debt is no big deal. People have been thinking that for a long, long time. It hasn't really paid off for most of them (unless they're in politics... then it's a way of life)

My opinion? Which of these facts do you disagree with?

1) We will see significant inflation in the next few years
2) Significant inflation erodes the value of debt

 

[MelissaWV]

Where did you get that table? Every site I can find off google for average income of a GMP puts them around $150-200k.

As for getting experience, its hard to judge accurately how difficult it is to get a job with or without a college degree. I base my judgement on what I see. For example, my dad owns a company. He needs to hire a cold call sales person. Job requires no college degree. He advertises for the job and gets 40 applications within a week. 35 of them have college degrees. Guess who's going to select?



My opinion? Which of these facts do you disagree with?

1) We will see significant inflation in the next few years
2) Significant inflation erodes the value of debt

On the debt issue, your points do not demonstrate an absolute disappearance of the debt. This means that there will certainly be something to pay off. This need to pay will come during a point in your life where you will be likely to be starting a family and facing things such as a wedding, or a first home, or a car purchase, etc.. The trouble with that is that those demands (plus the loan payments) will come at a time when you are not guaranteed a career whose pay will cover all of those things. In other words, you will still be out some money. College will not wind up being magically free. You are putting off payment without a guarantee of any sort of job.

Your dad is hiring people to cold call, and he has a bunch of people with college degrees. How many of them have loans to pay? How much does that job pay? How many of the applicants have families, and are stuck right now applying for jobs totally irrelevant to their field of study?

I never said "absolutely 100% never go to college." There are a lot of jobs where you'll NEED a degree. There are also a lot of careers where you don't need one at all, or where a four-year college can be replaced by a two-year program, or a certification. People don't look into these things as much, which is why there are certain career fields that are finding they can't get enough applicants, because people don't have the skills. That's a glorious thing for those people who DO take the time to look into unusual career paths, invest their efforts into following one, and reap the rewards

As for the table, I searched for it at work and I've arrived at home. I basically Googled and found a site with a long list of job categories, their descriptions, and average salaries. In all fairness, once I got home I started looking again... and I'm not sure what on earth these sites are based on. One told me my current job's "average pay" is $13.15/hr and tops off at $17.95/hr. I make considerably more than the "top" pay for my job, then? I have seen, now, some of the really high General Practitioner numbers, but I've also continued to see lower ones, too. In other words, I'm not the least bit sure I'm comparing apples to apples. I do know various people who are in the restoration business as electricians making well into six figures, but that's purely anecdotal.

Anyways... summary... you don't HAVE TO go to college, but be sure you can get away with not doing it before you let the chance pass you by, and please realize that any debt you're promising to pay later is money that's not in your pocket at that time.

 

[Acala]

Really?

Engineers, lawyers, and doctors will always be in demand.

Really? Not in this country. You are living in the past.

Engineers get paid by people who have money to invest in having things designed and built. They do this so they can sell those things to people who have money to buy them. Americans are not going to have the money to buy them so people are going to stop building them here. In fact, they already have to a large degree. When nobody can afford to buy new products, nobody will hire an engineer to design new products.

Lawyers are hired primarily by big business to fight with other big business or with accident victims about money. When there ain't no money to fight about, lawyers go hungry.

I think there IS a future in various medical professions, but in the long run it will be in the underground economy because the above ground medical business will be destroyed by government.

 

[squarepusher]

do what you like and are good at, excel at it, work that way.

 

[ChooseLiberty]

Do a channel check on the radio ad market before you take the job. Survey some likely businesses - maybe the ones you work for now.

Nothng happens until somebody sells something. The highest paid lawyers, investment bankers, management consultants and maybe engineers and MDs are essentially sales people with a few exceptions for extreme specialization.

Of course plumbers can charge out the wazoo for weekend emergencies, but they have to put up with a lot of sh*t.

 

[ThePieSwindler]

I think higher education and the burden of student loan debt will be, if not the next bubble to burst, then at least a huge drag on consumer demand for the next decade. Yes, engineers will get jobs, but they will pay 50-60k a year with only a 401k plan with a smaller percentage match instead of 80k+ upon graduation. At least, this is my experience with engineering students I know who have managed to find jobs (alot, since I go to an engineering school). But lawyers are in for some shit - especially lawyers graduating from schools out of the top 12. Yet the loans are still just as big as at the top 12 schools in many cases. Most other majors are either not finding work or are severely underemployed, with loan payments making a very sizable proportion of their expenses. This is only going to get worse with each passing graduating class, as tuition costs continue to rise sharply and more and more people buy in to education as a way to "get ahead". Of course, education is fantastic, but when it costs many years of income from a decent paying job (which is not a given) to pay off, is it really worth it when you are underemployed? The OP is going the right route - a 2 year school and perhaps a bachelors in a technical field at a state school (its pointless to go into six figures of debt, no matter the school you attend).

Unfortunately, I am speaking out of a place of experience, as I will have 6 figures of debt with a good degree and perhaps even reasonable job prospects when I grauduate - yet in retrospect it was a terrible choice, regardless. Primarily, this is because I am succeeding at other ventures that have nothing to do with my major and would much prefer to go headlong into them. As such, I'd rather not have the ball and chain of student debt (since you can't ever get rid of it) around my neck. I might still have a successful job (though that is no certainty, while my current income is), but my disposable income would have been much greater post-graduation if I had gone to a lesser college.

While hyperinflation might be a possible future scenario, debt deflation is another precipice that could be tipped over if all the money printed stays in the hands of the bankers and doesn't reach the balance sheets of business or pockets of consumers. Debt is needed to provide capital to businesses (newer ones not already so heavily leveraged) but it is not getting out there to where it needs to go - it is staying in the hands of the gamblers and monetary confidence artists. Long term our fiat currency is doomed of course, but I dont think the end of the dollar will come till at least later in the decade, if not even later than that. High inflation might, but not hyperinflation.

 

[Acala]

Underground

The future is in the underground economy.

The aboveground economy will be taxed, regulated, and currency-shocked to death. The only place in the aboveground economy where a decent living might be had is in the government - and even that is doomed.

Think about what real people will REALLY need OFF THE RECORD and learn how to provide it. Real people are not going to need lawyers (I am one, by the way) or engineers, or CPAs or systems analysts, or management consultants, or investment bankers, etc.

 

[Blueskies]

This need to pay will come during a point in your life where you will be likely to be starting a family and facing things such as a wedding, or a first home, or a car purchase, etc..

My point is that you won't be able to get to this point in life if you don't go to college.

I'm 21 years old. I have a lot of friends that went to college, I have a lot of friends that didn't. I have about 10 friends that I speak to on a regular basis that didn't go to college. Of those, only one is able to support himself. He managed to find a job at a factory and work his way up to management. The other nine are still living at home with absolutely no hope of ever leaving. They work various dead end jobs like fast food, janitorial work, busing tables at a restaurant, stocking at a grocery store etc. or they're unemployed. They're not gaining skills. They're not meeting people that could help them. Quite simply, they're ****ed.

It's like the board game Life. Except now, if you chose the path of not going to college, you're stuck after three squares making minimum wage and living in your parent's basement.

We've literally evolved a society where if you don't get an education (I'm not differentiating here between university and trade school, both count, but I would say university is superior in general), 99% of the time, you can't advance in life.

If you go to college you may leave with debt. Maybe a lot of debt. Or maybe not so much debt if you know what you're doing--there are a lot of ways to get college paid for if you're resourceful.

And maybe, when you leave, you'll be paying a lot of your income to service student loans. But a $60k a year job paying off $100k of debt is better than a $15k a year job paying off no debt.

Can anyone give me an example of someone 18-25 that is able to support themselves without having gone to college, trade school, or was hooked up by their family?

Really? Not in this country. You are living in the past.

Engineers get paid by people who have money to invest in having things designed and built. They do this so they can sell those things to people who have money to buy them. Americans are not going to have the money to buy them so people are going to stop building them here. In fact, they already have to a large degree. When nobody can afford to buy new products, nobody will hire an engineer to design new products.

Lawyers are hired primarily by big business to fight with other big business or with accident victims about money. When there ain't no money to fight about, lawyers go hungry.

I think there IS a future in various medical professions, but in the long run it will be in the underground economy because the above ground medical business will be destroyed by government.

Assuming you're right, I'll still be better off with my degree.

Why? I'll leave the country. And foreign countries are going to be much more welcoming of an immigrant with a degree than one without.

 

[Baptist]

My point is that you won't be able to get to this point in life if you don't go to college.

I'm 21 years old. I have a lot of friends that went to college, I have a lot of friends that didn't. I have about 10 friends that I speak to on a regular basis that didn't go to college. Of those, only one is able to support himself. He managed to find a job at a factory and work his way up to management. The other nine are still living at home with absolutely no hope of ever leaving. They work various dead end jobs like fast food, janitorial work, busing tables at a restaurant, stocking at a grocery store etc. or they're unemployed. They're not gaining skills. They're not meeting people that could help them. Quite simply, they're ****ed.

It's like the board game Life. Except now, if you chose the path of not going to college, you're stuck after three squares making minimum wage and living in your parent's basement.

We've literally evolved a society where if you don't get an education (I'm not differentiating here between university and trade school, both count, but I would say university is superior in general), 99% of the time, you can't advance in life.

If you go to college you may leave with debt. Maybe a lot of debt. Or maybe not so much debt if you know what you're doing--there are a lot of ways to get college paid for if you're resourceful.

And maybe, when you leave, you'll be paying a lot of your income to service student loans. But a $60k a year job paying off $100k of debt is better than a $15k a year job paying off no debt.

Can anyone give me an example of someone 18-25 that is able to support themselves without having gone to college, trade school, or was hooked up by their family?



Assuming you're right, I'll still be better off with my degree.

Why? I'll leave the country. And foreign countries are going to be much more welcoming of an immigrant with a degree than one without.

Sorry man, I disagree. In 2006 I was single, owned a year-old house, year-old truck, and was able to pay all my bills just fine. I got to that point with zero college, and without keeping the same job for more than 3 years.

I will not explain why here, but I decided to go to college (got rid of house, truck, everything and basically started from scratch because I broke even on house and truck). I graduate this summer and my wife graduates next year from grad school in the medical field. If we could go back and do it all over again, we would not do the college route. College is a scam and "education" in this country is a joke.

When all is said and done, I believe that the most promising way to make money (over the course of a lifetime) in this country is to start working your butt off with a trade right out of high school, or at most going to a two-year college to learn a trade. If you live modest and start saving for retirement out of high school (even just 5%), I believe you have better odds of retiring with more money than college graduates with "good" jobs.

My wife is guaranteed to make 80k-120k IMMEDIATELY out of college (and after experience can double those wages). And we can live anywhere in the world because her skills are in such high demand. Combine her wages with any "good" job my degree will bring me, and I still think it would have been more worth it for us to both start working out of high school.

Bottom line is that college is a gamble. When all is said and done, there is no telling if it would have been worth it for you to go to college.

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/CollegeAndFamily/CutCollegeCosts/IsCollegeWorthTheMoney.aspx

http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/college/2009-08-31-how-debt-affects-your-outlook_N.htm


YouTube - John Stossel Is College Worth It? 20/20 ABC News



[edit] If you are going to go to college, then I'd take Schiff's, Calente's and other's advice and learn a good trade, such as doctor, veterinarian, engineer, dentist, etc. But most kids in college, including myself, have worthless degrees in history, art, political science, sociology, communication, business, hospitality, management..... the list is endless.


Also read John Taylor Gatto's books on why college is a waste.

 

[Baptist]

Unfortunately, I am speaking out of a place of experience, as I will have 6 figures of debt with a good degree and perhaps even reasonable job prospects when I grauduate - yet in retrospect it was a terrible choice, regardless. Primarily, this is because I am succeeding at other ventures that have nothing to do with my major and would much prefer to go headlong into them. As such, I'd rather not have the ball and chain of student debt (since you can't ever get rid of it) around my neck. I might still have a successful job (though that is no certainty, while my current income is), but my disposable income would have been much greater post-graduation if I had gone to a lesser college.

Yeah, I agree. I'm only 30, and have been working full time since I was 15. When I look back at all the jobs I've had, and all the opportunities that came my way.... If I could go back and do it all over again, I would not do the college thing. Before I even reached 25-years-old I stumbled across half a dozen opportunities where I could have stuck with a job and taken it over someday, been trained and "learned the way" so that I could start my own business in the same field, or even worked for some really cool bosses who wanted me to stay and advance within the company. Because I'm an entrepreneur at heart, I even started and played around with two different businesses. No offense to anyone who is struggling, but in reality, I believe that anyone who 1.) has good work ethic, or 2.) has even the slightest inkling of entrepreneurialism in them, should be able to make it and thrive in this country with zero college education.

Looking back at all of it now, I believe that I when all is said and done, I would have been better off if I just picked a trade out of high school. I probably should have just worked a bunch of jobs until I was about twenty, so I knew what I liked and what I didn't like. By the time I was twenty I should have just picked a trade that I liked, and put every ounce of my effort into it.

 

[Blueskies]

College isn't a golden ticket. If you spend four years at an obscure private liberal arts college getting a degree in humanities, you better plan on attending grad school right away.

Same thing for kids that spend their summers relaxing at home. Internships, internships, internships.

But if you can't land a job with a college degree, how are you ever supposed to land one without one? That's my entire point.

 

[wgadget]

For the Biblical viewpoint, just before the passage regarding the "coming of the Lord," we have:

"Make it your ambition to lead a quiet life, to mind your own business and to work with your hands, just as we told you, so that your daily life may win the respect of outsiders and so that you will not be dependent on anybody."

---1 Thessalonians 4:11-12

 

[Jordan]

Yeah, I agree. I'm only 30, and have been working full time since I was 15. When I look back at all the jobs I've had, and all the opportunities that came my way.... If I could go back and do it all over again, I would not do the college thing. Before I even reached 25-years-old I stumbled across half a dozen opportunities where I could have stuck with a job and taken it over someday, been trained and "learned the way" so that I could start my own business in the same field, or even worked for some really cool bosses who wanted me to stay and advance within the company. Because I'm an entrepreneur at heart, I even started and played around with two different businesses. No offense to anyone who is struggling, but in reality, I believe that anyone who 1.) has good work ethic, or 2.) has even the slightest inkling of entrepreneurialism in them, should be able to make it and thrive in this country with zero college education.

Looking back at all of it now, I believe that I when all is said and done, I would have been better off if I just picked a trade out of high school. I probably should have just worked a bunch of jobs until I was about twenty, so I knew what I liked and what I didn't like. By the time I was twenty I should have just picked a trade that I liked, and put every ounce of my effort into it.

I couldn't agree with the bolded section more.

Recipe for success: 2 parts hard work, 1 part thought work.

 

[FunkBuddha]

My advice is similar to suggestions others have offered. Please don't waste four plus years of your life busting your ass to get a degree in something you don't like. Find a job doing something you enjoy and then weigh your options as to how to move up. Would getting a degree in this area help you most or would you be better off busting your ass and mastering the trade?

I was fortunate in that I always knew what field i wanted to be in. I got a break when I was 19 to get my foot in the door and after a few years at the bottom I got noticed and I've moved way up in the organization. I'm 32 now and I'm almost as high up as I can go short of becoming management which I won't do (I'm a technical person.)

Another thing to keep in mind. My boss told me the other day at my review that he was going to put me in for another promotion not because I'm the best at what I do but because I'm not scared to get involved in projects involving skills that I don't have.

 

[MelissaWV]

@ BlueSkies but also in general

*shrugs* Personally, I have an excellent career path for which I didn't go to college. I've worked a variety of jobs, mostly because I got into a really stupid situation that has nothing to do with not having an education. When you get into a situation where you end up taking whatever job, because you're behind, then you're screwed. You keep working more, and more, and more to break even... and dreams of getting ahead feel pretty far-fetched.

I was glad to find myself in 2008 with very little debt (a few medical bills, an unpaid cable bill, an unpaid loan from a friend, a pledge to repay $100 in charity from a church; all of it came up to maybe $1000). I sat down and made an inventory of my skills, and I began looking into how I could use them. Lo and behold, I found a way. I got a steady job with insanely low pay, but I made it work, and I used my spare time to do freelance work. The freelance work did not pay for luxuries or any such stupidity. I did not take on any credit cards or loans. I remained debt-free.

Now, as I'm transitioning from the "steady" job to working on my own, I find myself with enough money to deal with any bills I have, and to cover a move to Canada which I'd been planning for quite some time My divorce is final, I believe. I'm not sure because I didn't waste time communicating with the guy, or playing drama games with him. I just left. I haven't wasted time partying, or bought myself oodles of clothing, or new shoes, and I've done my hair maybe once a year. The freelance jobs find their way to my Inbox with far less salesmanship on my part, because I have built up a reputation with people. I have enough spare time that I can dedicate some of it to campaign materials (free of charge).

I have money enough to replace a lot of the things I had to abandon when I moved in 2008. I am in love with someone whose work ethic is more impressive than mine. I have plans to get my two-year schooling/certification at a school for transcription training, in case I get bored just working from home. My typing speeds are off the charts, and my error rate is really great, so I'm going to try my hand at court reporting/closed-caption work. It's funny. Something like that very easily makes six figures, and a lot of the people in the field that are really good at it... are fast-approaching retirement age. I looked into it, and more importantly I looked into the jobs and workforce demographics around Toronto.

All it took was some time to take inventory of myself, my skills, my goals, and an evaluation of what was needed to fulfill them.

Of course, if I had student loans, I would have a degree in Marketing (like a whole lot of other people) and I'd probably be mucking around in a job that had little to do with that degree. I would have the student loans to pay back, which would stink even if I were doing the same freelance work. Having those loans would push away the two-year certification I just talked about. It would probably have eaten into my savings, which means I would be a little bit skimpy on furnishings, I guess, and likely get a much smaller apartment if I decided to move to Toronto. That's all guessing.

Instead, I'm comfortable with how my life turned out.

Not everyone needs a degree. Even though that's obvious, what too many people haven't asked themselves is "do *I* need a degree?"