Adam Kokesh + Stefan Molyneux + Ernie Hancock @ Porcfest

[ClayTrainor]

Ernie and Stefan come in at about 8 mins into this vid. After that, the free talk live guys are on.

 

[BuddyRey]

Nice! Thanks for posting!

 

[Wesker1982]

I agree with Stef when he says you can't fix something like the State, but how many Ron Paul supporters seriously believe that is the goal though?

I also highly doubt that Ron Paul has turned more people away from Voluntaryism than he has pushed towards it. Most people don't go from hardcore Statist to Voluntaryist. Stef seems intellectually dishonest when he makes this point.

 

[BuddyRey]

I agree with Stef when he says you can't fix something like the State, but how many Ron Paul supporters seriously believe that is the goal though?

I also highly doubt that Ron Paul has turned more people away from Voluntaryism than he has pushed towards it. Most people don't go from hardcore Statist to Voluntaryist. Stef seems intellectually dishonest when he makes this point.

I like Stefan Molyneux a lot, but his recent harsh and dismissive statements about Ron Paul and the RP movement have left me really scratching my head, if not full-blown facepalming.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

I like Stefan Molyneux a lot, but his recent harsh and dismissive statements about Ron Paul and the RP movement have left me really scratching my head, if not full-blown facepalming.

+1. I don't agree with minarchism myself, but the RP movement has introduced people to anarchism and Voluntaryism who otherwise wouldn't have even encountered it-and many have converted. Stef is a bit too harsh in his critique of RP in that regard.

 

[Echoes]

Stefan is a knucklehead, he's been railing against Ron Paul for many years now. Of all the politicians out there he could go after, he chooses the lone good one Dr. Paul. On top of that, he's a Christian-hating bigot.

 

[ClayTrainor]

Stefan is a knucklehead, he's been railing against Ron Paul for many years now. Of all the politicians out there he could go after, he chooses the lone good one Dr. Paul. On top of that, he's a Christian-hating bigot.

Hey man, stop holding back on how ya feel

 

[A Son of Liberty]

+1. I don't agree with minarchism myself, but the RP movement has introduced people to anarchism and Voluntaryism who otherwise wouldn't have even encountered it-and many have converted. Stef is a bit too harsh in his critique of RP in that regard.

Agreed. I like a lot of Stef's stuff, but frankly he's a bit too full of himself, especially (from my point of view) on the theism question. At least that's my impression of him. But I'm not one to throw the baby out with the bath water. I still check out FDR occasionally.

 

[Wesker1982]

Ron Paul would never advocate the use of violence to impose his views. This is all that should matter to someone like Stef, imo.

 

[Sentient Void]

Absolutely agreed on all points made about Stef so far in this thread.

He's just being a contrarian douche, IMO. Some libertarians are like that - they get a particular feelin of fulfillment by going against as much of the grain as possible while tryin to remain consistent - and i think his vicious anti-RP sebtiment is driven by this. Still *love* a lot of his shit, though, of course. But on RP he's doing more counterproductive damage than good - an I agree, being dishonest in some respects as mentioned above.

I almost guarantee that Stefan can probably thank most of his rise in popularity as an after-though to the meteoric rise of libertarianism, which was in most part caused by RPs run for president starting in 2007.

It's all a common cause to maximize individual liberty and minimize government oppression over individuals - when it gets to the point where we have a minarchistic libertarian society - then us anarchists and minarchists can go to philosophical war - but until then - our goals are virtually the same, ourtwo groups just disagree on how far it can be taken. Many monarchists I've talked to would be fine with an anarchist society if it would work - they just don think it would.

Not to mention, RP is an anarchist anyways - hes just trying a different approach to trying to take big bites out of the Tate as much and as often as possible (Rothbard agrees with such methods btw), and I'd say RP has had more success in affecting philosophical change than any modern anarchists or libertarians I can think of.

 

[Wesker1982]

He's just being a contrarian douche, IMO.

Yeah, it is too bad he is letting this get in the way because his audience would grow if he was more Ron Paul friendly.

I almost guarantee that Stefan can probably thank most of his rise in popularity as an after-though to the meteoric rise of libertarianism, which was in most part caused by RPs run for president starting in 2007.

If it wasn't for Ron Paul leading me to anarcho-libertarianism in the first place, I would have just saw some bald dude talking about something apparently insane and just moved on to another video lol.

It's all a common cause to maximize individual liberty and minimize government oppression over individuals - when it gets to the point where we have a minarchistic libertarian society - then us anarchists and minarchists can go to philosophical war - but until then - our goals are virtually the same, ourtwo groups just disagree on how far it can be taken.

Agreed.

If our limited statists were truly radical, there would be virtually no splits between us. What divides the movement now, the true division, is not anarchist vs. minarchist, but radical vs. conservative. Lord, give us radicals, be they anarchists or no.

Many people have wondered: Why should there be any important political disputes between anarchocapitalists and minarchists now? In this world of statism, where there is so much common ground, why can't the two groups work in complete harmony until we shall have reached a Cobdenite world, after which we can air our disagreements? Why quarrel over courts, etc. now?

The answer to this excellent question is that we could and would march hand-in-hand in this way if the minarchists were radicals, as they were from the birth of classical liberalism down to the 1940s. Give us back the antistatist radicals, and harmony would indeed reign triumphant within the movement.

Good article if you haven't read it yet: http://mises.org/daily/5342/Do-You-Hate-the-State

 

[Ireland4Liberty]

Could anyone point to a video where is he a douche? I have watched quite a few of his videos and find it very hard to rebuke his work. He is usually very polite and upbeat, imo.

Edit: Just watched the video. I disagree with him on changing the gov from the inside out. I find it hard to imagine changing the gov from the outside in. I also have a problem with how a people might defend themselves against other statist countries.

 

[Wesker1982]

Edit: Just watched the video. I disagree with him on changing the gov from the inside out. I find it hard to imagine changing the gov from the outside in. I also have a problem with how a people might defend themselves against other statist countries.

Wanting to change the State from the inside assumes the State is not an inherently broken institution in the first place.

I agree with Stef that you cannot change "fix" the State, but Ron Paul imo is not trying to fix the State.

For defending a stateless society there is some good material here: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?296399-Anarcho-Capitalist-Reference-List