About NAFTA

[winston_blade]

What is so bad about it? I am kind of looking for specifics to why RP would be against it. Is there something in the agreement that is quite troubling?

 

[Dieseler]

The way I see it is like this in its simplest terms.

Our manufacturing is highly regulated...
Keeping it simple, so in terms of safety regulations our workers and corporations are at a huge disadvantage to a country that say builds a plant that makes automotive batteries for example. That country may allow its workers to run around a battery plant bare footed and shirtless at work. This would never be allowed here for obvious safety reasons not to mention the law and the possibility of lawsuits to hurt workers.

So I guess thats just one thing thats wrong with NAFTA whether it was planned to work out that way or not it has in fact worked out that way and most of our manufacturing base has moved off to the third world where workers are more easily exploited and controlled saving huge costs compared to using American labor.
Thats just one aspect of whats wrong with it though. The treaty did not ensure the protection of American workers from Corps that would flee their services for countries that enforced nearly zero regulation on them.

I'm sure its a lot more complicated than that though and a very good question. I would love to hear more people weigh in on this.

 

[Dr.3D]

Could it be the uneven playing field we are supposed to be playing on? I mean, the U.S. has so many bureaucratic laws concerning the environment, it has gotten very expensive to do business here. Many of the manufacturing jobs have been sent south of the border because it is cheaper to do business there. When Mexico and our other neighbors south of the border have the same regulations on what is permitted in the manufacturing environment, the playing field will level up a bit.

How is U.S. industry supposed to compete when the people who work south of the border accept a much lower pay rate? Is there any wonder why Perot said there would be a giant sucking sound from south of the border when NAFTA passes?

Since the passing of the NAFTA, the U.S. has lost a tremendous number of manufacturing jobs.
Our country has pretty much lost it's ability to manufacture what it needs. If we were ever in a war with those countries who do have the manufacturing jobs, we would be stuck without our industrial base. Are we going to be able to buy what we need in time of war from our enemies?

The whole idea of sending our industrial base out of the country only helps those who would make money from the deal. What we really need is a level playing field so we can keep our industrial base at home.

 

[forsmant]

Free trade was spelled out with 54 words in the constitution. It takes 2000 pages to do it in the NAFTA agreement. More than 900 pages are attributed to tariffs.

http://blog.mises.org/archives/007889.asp

 

[winston_blade]

Could it be the uneven playing field we are supposed to be playing on? I mean, the U.S. has so many bureaucratic laws concerning the environment, it has gotten very expensive to do business here. Many of the manufacturing jobs have been sent south of the border because it is cheaper to do business there. When Mexico and our other neighbors south of the border have the same regulations on what is permitted in the manufacturing environment, the playing field will level up a bit.

How is U.S. industry supposed to compete when the people who work south of the border accept a much lower pay rate? Is there any wonder why Perot said there would be a giant sucking sound from south of the border when NAFTA passes?

Since the passing of the NAFTA, the U.S. has lost a tremendous number of manufacturing jobs.
Our country has pretty much lost it's ability to manufacture what it needs. If we were ever in a war with those countries who do have the manufacturing jobs, we would be stuck without our industrial base. Are we going to be able to buy what we need in time of war from our enemies?

The whole idea of sending our industrial base out of the country only helps those who would make money from the deal. What we really need is a level playing field so we can keep our industrial base at home.

So moving things out of the country would be a good thing for the consumer because the products will be cheaper.

 

[winston_blade]

http://blog.mises.org/archives/007889.asp

Thanks for that. That helps a lot. I figured NAFTA put in tarrifs, but I didn't know they put in that many.

 

[Dr.3D]

So moving things out of the country would be a good thing for the consumer because the products will be cheaper.

Yeah. That is fine if you were not one of the people making those things.
The government has made it so difficult for industry to operate in this country, they have decided to move to a more cooperative environment.

Edit: And also it doesn't necessarily make the product cheaper to the end consumer. It just allows the industry based outside of the country to make more profit.

 

[winston_blade]

Yeah. That is fine if you were not one of the people making those things.
The government has made it so difficult for industry to operate in this country, they have decided to move to a more cooperative environment.

Edit: And also it doesn't necessarily make the product cheaper to the end consumer. It just allows the industry based outside of the country to make more profit.

Competition would bring the prices down though because companies would be competing for more of the market share.

Your above statement makes it sound like we should "protect" businesses here at home. Is that how you feel?

 

[Dr.3D]

Competition would bring the prices down though because companies would be competing for more of the market share.

Your above statement makes it sound like we should "protect" businesses here at home. Is that how you feel?

Not protect, but at least give them the same advantages of less bureaucracy the competition has.

 

[winston_blade]

Not protect, but at least give them the same advantages of less bureaucracy the competition has.

I'm for that But it most likely won't happen in this country

 

[Dr.3D]

I'm for that But it most likely won't happen in this country

For instance, if a company has to use scrubbers or catalytic oxidizers to comply with the EPA mandates of the United States, are they going to spend the extra money to comply or are they going to go where there is no EPA mandate for such items?

Have you noticed how the pollution in industrial cities in Mexico and China is out of control? How are we to compete with countries where emissions into the environment are not regulated?

We are stuck between a rock and a hard spot here. Either we relax the EPA mandates or the other countries must stiffen theirs. It is an uneven playing field.

 

[winston_blade]

For instance, if a company has to use scrubbers or catalytic oxidizers to comply with the EPA mandates of the United States, are they going to spend the extra money to comply or are they going to go where there is no EPA mandate for such items?

Have you noticed how the pollution in industrial cities in Mexico and China is out of control? How are we to compete with countries where emissions into the environment are not regulated?

We are stuck between a rock and a hard spot here. Either we relax the EPA mandates or the other countries must stiffen theirs. It is an uneven playing field.

I doubt we can force other countries to comply. Looks like we will have to allow more pollution.

 

[Dr.3D]

I doubt we can force other countries to comply. Looks like we will have to allow more pollution.

Or make them pay for the difference when the item is imported.

 

[Agent CSL]

Or make them pay for the difference when the item is imported.

Then we'll see prices rise or they'll look to take their business elsewhere.

 

[Dr.3D]

Then we'll see prices rise or they'll look to take their business elsewhere.

They can take their business any place they want as long as the playing field remains level. We have the EPA and a lot of other bureaucracy in this country that makes the cost of our manufacturing higher. If we have to have higher manufacturing costs because of mandates, then the least that can be done is make sure those products produced where there are no mandates cost the same as if they were produced here.