"Abortion Restriction is Still a Winning Issue" (discusses "Ron Paul Youth")

sailingaway

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"Abortion Restriction is Still a Winning Issue" (discusses "Ron Paul Youth")

Last night, I was having some discussions about the future of the GOP (I mentioned these in my post yesterday), and I was asked whether we need to give up on abortion, moot it as an issue, and focus on less sensitive issues (like the economy) in order to win over young people, especially Ron Paul supporters. I said that we did not need to do that. In fact, I believe, it would be counter-productive; backing down on abortion abolition would not only be a grave injustice, but would actually injure us in our ground game and at the polls.

This is not conventional wisdom, and I could tell that there was more than one skeptic at the table when I said what I did. So I figured I’d better spend a little time today pulling together some data.

First, about the Ron Paul folks: Ron Paul was the most ardently pro-life candidate in the 2012 race. Rick Santorum had the reputation as the die-hard social conservative, but that was not quite true when it came to abortion. Paul signed the Personhood Pledge, authored Personhood legislation before it was cool, and put together the most innovative and promising federal abortion legislation in years. That’s why Norma McCorvey (the original “Roe” in Roe v. Wade, now a devoted pro-lifer) supported Ron Paul for President. Clearly, when it comes to Ron Paul supporters, opposing abortion is not a deal-breaker.

And this matches up neatly with my experience in “the movement.” Ron Paul supporters fell into three categories on abortion: those who were devotedly pro-life and did not want to support a “pro-life with exceptions” candidate (e.g. Romney), those who were pro-choice but did not consider it a “make-or-break” issue, and those who simply had no strong opinions on abortion. (DISCLAIMER: I was one of those pro-lifers. For more on why I backed Ron Paul, read my endorsement from last year, “Why I Support Ron Paul for President.”) If Republicans want to win Ron Paul supporters, some can be enticed with stronger positions on abortion. To be fair, though, most of those Paulites already voted for Romney (or Virgil Goode), with only a few exceptions. The rest of Paul’s supporters considered Paul’s abortion position a neutral or a negative, but those supporters are motivated by other issues, so the Republican outreach to them should begin with those issues, not with abortion.

Indeed, Paul helped awaken a division in movement libertarianism as a whole: there are some libertarians, like Gary Johnson, who see abortion as a matter of women’s liberty, and therefore support legal abortion. But there are others in the liberty movement, like Ron Paul himself, who see abortion as a matter of fetal liberty (the first, most fundamental liberty being the right not to be killed unjustly), and therefore support treating fetuses like the people they are under state and federal law. Repositioning Republicans on abortion to appeal to the pro-abortion libertarian caucus would do them few favors with the anti-abortion libertarian caucus, and would alienate traditional social conservatives (i.e. “Santorum conservatives”) to no good end.

So much for abortion and the Ron Paul kiddies. But the question I was asked was not about us Paulbots. It was about young people as a whole, and how they view abortion.

More, and internal links, here: http://www.jamesjheaney.com/2013/03/20/abortion-restriction-is-still-a-winning-issue/
 
To be fair, though, most of those Paulites already voted for Romney (or Virgil Goode), with only a few exceptions.

Wha? The pro-life Ron Paulers went to Romney?
 
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Very interesting statistics in OP's article. Agrees with what I've seen before.
 
first.. make it illegal to abort just because someone had a mistake with a one night stand. (satisfies pro-lifers partly and satisfies social conservatives).

then go from there.
 
first.. make it illegal to abort just because someone had a mistake with a one night stand. (satisfies pro-lifers partly and satisfies social conservatives).

then go from there.

A unintended consequence of that could be that you have a increase in the amount of false rape charges.
 
I disagree, completely. I think at least a third of Ron Paul's support was from people who were pr o-choice (including myself). Furthermore, with the old-hat baby-boomers dying off, abortion is going to become a bipartisan issue within the next 15 years. This is going to be a pro-"choice" nation, for better or for worse, and you'd be better off accepting that. I don't necessarily agree with abortion, but I am pro-choice because I think there aren't enough opportunities in the world for new life to thrive.
 
I disagree, completely. I think at least a third of Ron Paul's support was from people who were pr o-choice (including myself). Furthermore, with the old-hat baby-boomers dying off, abortion is going to become a bipartisan issue within the next 15 years. This is going to be a pro-"choice" nation, for better or for worse, and you'd be better off accepting that. I don't necessarily agree with abortion, but I am pro-choice because I think there aren't enough opportunities in the world for new life to thrive.

re bolded, and if you read the article it says that. That Ron's supporters were eiterh STRICTLY pro life, or pro choice but driven by other issues more important to them (so he suggests approaching people like you on those issues that drew you) or didn't have it as a major issue/weren't clear on the issue.
 
...backing down on abortion abolition would not only be a grave injustice, but would actually injure us in our ground game and at the polls...


I have every confidence that Ron Paul BELIEVES this, and equal confidence that he is WRONG.

"Abortion Abolition", fiddle dee dee. Labeling it criminal, labeling it murder, labeling it "abolished", dividing the citizenry, derailing elections, wailing and gnashing teeth...NONE of it will end abortion.
 
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I disagree, completely. I think at least a third of Ron Paul's support was from people who were pr o-choice (including myself). Furthermore, with the old-hat baby-boomers dying off, abortion is going to become a bipartisan issue within the next 15 years. This is going to be a pro-"choice" nation, for better or for worse, and you'd be better off accepting that. I don't necessarily agree with abortion, but I am pro-choice because I think there aren't enough opportunities in the world for new life to thrive.

You did not read the article linked in the OP. You should go do that before commenting on it, I think.
 
I have every confidence that Ron Paul BELIEVES this, and equal confidence that he is WRONG.

Linking to this twice, because I believe it's important: http://www.jamesjheaney.com/2012/11/09/why-we-lost-not-enough-votes/

Cliff Notes: Your confidence is misplaced. You are mistaken, Ron Paul is right. This is not a matter of opinion. You are simply wrong about the way the world (and, more specifically, the electorate) is.

"Abortion Abolition", fiddle dee dee. Labeling it criminal, labeling it murder, labeling it "abolished", dividing the citizenry, derailing elections, wailing and gnashing teeth...NONE of it will end abortion.

What's your point? We're talking about winning votes here, not whether a particular policy is wise or not. For the record, I'm pro-life past the point of viability, pro-choice before it, and I think there are good reasons why this is the correct place to draw the line. But my personal beliefs (and yours) are completely irrelevant to the question of what wins elections.
 
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You are mistaken, Ron Paul is right. This is not a matter of opinion.

I refer you to the 2012 election results.



What's your point? We're talking about winning votes here, not whether a particular policy is wise or not.

I am talking about BOTH.

Would you be content to "win" votes via UNWISE policies?


For the record, I'm pro-life past the point of viability, pro-choice before it, and I think there are good reasons why this is the correct place to draw the line.

Sounds sane to ME.

But CORRECT is presumptuous. Everyone thinks THEIR line is "correct"...that's why they hold whichever beliefs they hold.


But my personal beliefs (and yours) are completely irrelevant to the question of what wins elections.

Depends how many people SHARE our personal beliefs.
 
I refer you to the 2012 election results.

Okay. The election results bear out what I am saying and are in complete conflict with what you are saying. Perhaps you could be a bit more explicit about what you believe the election results show? I'm reasonably confident that you haven't read the articles linked to in this thread. You should go do that before commenting further.

I am talking about BOTH.

Oh, okay. Well stop it. This thread is pretty explicitly titled, and it is about whether "abortion restriction is still a WINNING issue." If you would like to discuss whether it is wise from a policy standpoint, please start another thread.

Would you be content to "win" votes via UNWISE policies?

Yes. In fact, that is literally the only way it is possible to win votes, because the vast majority of voters are unwise. Also, I am not sure why you put the word "win" in quotes. Could you please explain that decision?

Sounds sane to ME.

But CORRECT is presumptuous. Everyone thinks THEIR line is "correct"...that's why they hold whichever beliefs they hold.

Right, the correctness of a conclusion depends on the priors you hold, and different people hold different priors. I don't think it follows from this that use of the word "correct" is incorrect. =P

Depends how many people SHARE our personal beliefs.

If the only point you are making here is that popular opinions are popular, then of course I agree. I'm not clear on why you'd feel the need to point that out though.
 
Abortion is a red herring; a losing issue. No one will be happy. It will always be used to demonize, especially the "mean white men" of the GOP. Hillary/Michelle 2016!
 
Abortion is a red herring; a losing issue. No one will be happy. It will always be used to demonize, especially the "mean white men" of the GOP.

More like, RED MEAT.

...The conventional explanation for what has happened in the forty years since Roe is known as the backlash argument. It sees the Court as having overreached, by acting ahead of both state legislatures and public opinion, leading to grassroots protest, the birth of the pro-life movement, and, ultimately, a debased form of partisanship. In 2011, the legal scholars Reva Siegel and Linda Greenhouse published an essay in the Yale Law Journal called “Before (and After) Roe.” They argued that the backlash argument gets the story both backward and upside down. Opposition to the legalization of abortion, they claimed, wasn’t bottom-up but top-down, and it wasn’t backlash; it was frontlash. Siegel and Greenhouse demonstrated that turning abortion into a partisan issue had been part of a strategy, crafted by Nixon’s advisers, to reinvent the G.O.P. and get Nixon reëlected—before Roe. “No American woman should be denied access to family planning assistance because of her economic condition,” Nixon said in 1969. Anticipating the opponents he would face in his run for reëlection, Nixon began to rethink his positions on contraception and abortion. “If the President should publicly take his stand against abortion, as offensive to his own moral principles,” Patrick Buchanan advised, in a memo dated March 24, 1971, “we can force Muskie to make the choice between his tens of millions of Catholic supporters and his liberal friends at the New York Times and the Washington Post.” A week later, Nixon issued a statement expressing his “personal belief in the sanctity of human life—including the life of the yet unborn.”

Beginning in the nineteen-eighties, pro-life activists began steering away from attempts to overturn Roe and toward efforts to weaken it, chiefly by lobbying for new laws, especially in state legislatures, restricting access to abortion. A new record was set in 2011, when ninety-two new abortion-restriction provisions were passed across the country, followed by forty-three in 2012...

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blo...s-is-forty-the-anniversary-of-roe-v-wade.html


Small government, ROFLMAO. Big Government...REEEALLY big government...lavishing the RIGHT people with paychecks drawn on taxpayers' money.
 
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