A5 Convention?

[osan]

I've had a change of mind regarding an Article V Convention of the states.

"Oh GOD NO!!!", some of you may be thinking, but I believe my reasoning is sound.

We are stagnant, at best, in terms of political change. More likely, we are decaying and there appears to be nothing in the way of a possibility that we the people will find a way to solutions via the usual routes. The implication, of course, being that we will simply continue down the chute into the form of serfdom that can no longer be credibly called anything better.

We have nothing to lose at this point. The risk may be significant, but not so much so as doing nothing.

 

[TheTexan]

Yup

 

[CaptUSA]

Better get the populace desiring freedom instead of stuff before we go messing with our founding documents.

I know, I know, we’re already there…. But believe this: it CAN get worse.

 

[TheTexan]

Better get the populace desiring freedom instead of stuff before we go messing with our founding documents.

The general populace will never desire freedom. No matter how many libertarian pamphlets are printed.

I know, I know, we’re already there…. But believe this: it CAN get worse.

Good. I want it to get worse. It getting worse, is the only way that the minority who does want freedom, will do something about it.

 

[69360]

Worst idea ever. Anything and everything would be up for change. Look who is running the government right now. 1st and 2nd ammendments would be gone right off the bat.

 

[TheTexan]

Worst idea ever. Anything and everything would be up for change. Look who is running the government right now. 1st and 2nd ammendments would be gone right off the bat.

And Texas would secede.

Win/win.

 

[osan]

Better get the populace desiring freedom instead of stuff before we go messing with our founding documents.

I know, I know, we’re already there…. But believe this: it CAN get worse.

My point is that you will not get the people who don't want freedom to want it, so once again I reiterate: we have nothing to lose at this point. The only possible downside at this time is that we arrive at abject servitude faster if a convention runs amok. Clinging in nerve-wracked terror to what little remains to you seems no solution at all, but an absolute guarantee of the worst result, in time.

Better to go down swinging, than doing the cling. Take a shot. Dare. Be courageous, come what may. But when you step up, you do so with utter commitment to a take-no-prisoners devotion to the right outcomes.

I see no virtue in cowering in fear, holding fast to shreds, hoping that God will miracle your ass into freedom. Anyone holding to this view would be better served in avoiding the slow burn with a bullet to their own head as mercy to themselves. Why live in such fear?

 

[osan]

Worst idea ever. Anything and everything would be up for change. Look who is running the government right now. 1st and 2nd ammendments would be gone right off the bat.

No, the worst idea ever is holding on to the shreds of what you have, in morbid fear of losing that paltry sum. The implication of your statement is that the status quo is better than taking the shot. I must disagree with you 100% on that point. Doing nothing, hoping for some miracle is by far the worse idea. And if you believe that there is in fact a path toward sufficient national accord of mind between so-called "left" and "right", you are bullshitting yourself and doing great disservice to everything for which you may claim to care.

 

[osan]

To all the naysayers, I say this: walk, no - RUN from your cowardice because it will by all means prove the death of us all. It will be the final nail in the coffin of liberty.

PS: Look what I found here on RPF - JUNGLE JANE! Anyone know/remember who she was?

 

[Okie RP fan]

And Texas would secede.

Win/win.

As long as we can figure out a way for Oklahoma to go with, I'm for this plan in particular.

A Con Con in this day and age still scares the snot outta me, though.

 

[fisharmor]

I've been inclined to agree lately, Osan.
The one part I can't get over, though, is that the A5 convention verbiage still presumes that the states are sovereign.
That hasn't been the case within living memory of anyone within living memory.
Therefore the whole process is broken out of the gate. If you're going to use broken tools, it makes sense to understand how being broken is going to affect the outcome, and in this case, we don't.

 

[TheTexan]

I've been inclined to agree lately, Osan.
The one part I can't get over, though, is that the A5 convention verbiage still presumes that the states are sovereign.
That hasn't been the case within living memory of anyone within living memory.
Therefore the whole process is broken out of the gate. If you're going to use broken tools, it makes sense to understand how being broken is going to affect the outcome, and in this case, we don't.

The most likely outcome, is that the document is updated to reflect the current status quo. We would just no longer have to be lied to about "shall not be infringed" as this would be replaced with "shall be infringed if we think it suitable"

 

[osan]

I've been inclined to agree lately, Osan.
The one part I can't get over, though, is that the A5 convention verbiage still presumes that the states are sovereign.
That hasn't been the case within living memory of anyone within living memory.
Therefore the whole process is broken out of the gate. If you're going to use broken tools, it makes sense to understand how being broken is going to affect the outcome, and in this case, we don't.

You raise valid concerns.

Here is how I look at it, currently.

If we do not hold an A5C, then our next choice is basically this: go to war, or capitulate to the left. I ain't capitulating, but I'm 63 and while in good shape for my age and have 50 years of bujutsu training, I cannot fight a civil war alone. Numbers in sufficiency are key.

But so long as we have other untried avenues of redress, we should exhaust them before pick up our rifles. The ONLY such avenue left is the A5C. We should make use of that path if for no other reason than nobody will be able to say that we, the war-horny, Eville™ Right/Conservative/Freeman/non-commies went right to violence when they still had alternatives.

Give it a whack. There is really nothing much to lose. The states can still pull out and anything put forward must still be ratified by 3/4 of the states. That last be alone almost ensures that nothing will change, but at least we can say we went through the process and can no longer be blamed for it's having failed. THEN we go to war and genocide the left as all propriety and rational sanity would dictate. 1/2

To hang on for dear life onto the shreds that Theye have yet to steal from us, and they WILL steal the remants in time, is to me a mark of Weakmen. Fate tends to reward boldness. It is rewaeding the Left as I type these words, as they have moved with authority these past sixteen or so months. We are seeing it everywhere - corporations jumping on the SJW bandwagon; CIA recruiting videos rife and rotten with the faggery and fukkery of the Left.

As things stand, I guaRONtee that we are on short final to losing it all. Theye are playing for keeps now and making no bones about the fact that they are going to cornhole the entire world most brutally, including you and me. This being the case, I say do the convention, which will fail miserably, and then get down to the real business at hand. But always exhaust the possibilities, and the A5C is the one remaining step.

Besides, you can never be sure that the convention would of necessity fail.

I think the one correction we need to make is to painstakingly outline the consequences to all governmental instruments for unamended violations of a man's basic rights. Life at hard labor and death by hanging - the most ignominious of all demises - should be that which awaits those who abuse their positions of special trust. Theye will laugh at it, at first, but after perhaps the tenth or twentieth brutally cold and publicly televised hanging of a government official or other instrument of state, Theye will begin to understand that the jig is up and I would predict that 90% or more of government workers will resign shortly thereafter. That is how we get the nation back.

I've worked most of it out and I believe I have done a man's job of it. I have no doubt that it can be done, done well, and kept that way, but we the people have to be grim in our intolerance of even the least transgression by anyone in government service. Killing those who carry unamended crimes against the people is the morally correct path. God Hisownself would stand and applaud us for having finally twigged to basic sense.

So yeah, get a convention going - I could have the materials ready, and I'd welcome any help on it. I did, in fact, post the correct 29th Amendment here back in 2013. I'm sure it would stand some refinement, but it is the right general idea. When those in political positions quake in terror at the thought of committing a crime against those to whom they swear oaths of good faith and service, you will see the nation return to propriety and good sense.

This COULD be done. I see no reason not to give it a shot. We can always go to war and slaughter each other, or just throw our hands up and surrender to the Tyrant. I see no reason to jump to either extreme prior to taking this shot.

Imagine how fast Pelosi would "retire", along with the rest of the filth including that little scumbag Amash. A new eral would open, I promise you that. Imagine the first couple hundred cops going home in body bags because we the people would no longer be obliged to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous corruption. It would likely be a wild ride for a while, and to that I say "so what?". Who cares, especially when most of the cadavers you'd see piling up would be those of the low-rent tyrants and their minions?

Bring it on, I say.

As for broken tools - irrelevant, given the broader truths. We have a clear 2A, yet I cannot legally carry my sidearm down Fifth Avenue in Manhattan without risk of death, etc. The worry is moot. It is ALL broken and will remain so until such time as we the people stand up and start executing those who commit crimes against our sovereign rights. It is a simple and plain as that. It's not rocket surgery, but it requires we show some sand.

 

[osan]

A Con Con in this day and age still scares the snot outta me, though.

And it ought to. No sane man approaches this sort of thing casually.

But we can say the same thing for the ways in which we the people have sat idly in the face of open tyranny and allowed Themme to do whatever the hell they wanted.

Fate favors the bold and we the people have been ever so timid of late.

Oh, and secession is not a particularly good idea at this time - not so long as we retain alternates. The notion of national defense is valid in this world of predatory insanity. Were the fifty states to go their own ways, I guaRONtee they would fall, one by one, to the likes of Russia and China. Of that there is absolutely zero doubt. They are meat eaters. We used to be but are now turning faggish. This will serve nobody well, of that I promise you. This republic thing can be done right, but not with corrupt people as the gross majority. We must be intelligent, smart, and grimly intolerant of the intolerable.

 

[Invisible Man]

What improvements to the Constitution would you hope to see implemented in a Constitutional Convention?

I think it's pretty much a guarantee that the actual changes that would succeed at getting passed would be ones that tend to give the federal government more power, rather than less. Any changes to the Constitution that may actually be steps in the right direction would be doomed to fail.

That said, the current trajectory is also guaranteed to tend toward increases in government power via the Constitution we already have. I can't dispute that point.

I guess it's a case of me choosing the devil I know over the devil I don't know.

 

[CaptUSA]

What improvements to the Constitution would you hope to see implemented in a Constitutional Convention?

I think it's pretty much a guarantee that the actual changes that would succeed at getting passed would be ones that tend to give the federal government more power, rather than less. Any changes to the Constitution that may actually be steps in the right direction would be doomed to fail.

That said, the current trajectory is also guaranteed to tend toward increases in government power via the Constitution we already have. I can't dispute that point.

I guess it's a case of me choosing the devil I know over the devil I don't know.

Yeah - somehow, I don't think "Separation of Commerce and State" is ever going to make it through.

 

[TheTexan]

What improvements to the Constitution would you hope to see implemented in a Constitutional Convention?

I think it's pretty much a guarantee that the actual changes that would succeed at getting passed would be ones that tend to give the federal government more power, rather than less. Any changes to the Constitution that may actually be steps in the right direction would be doomed to fail.

That said, the current trajectory is also guaranteed to tend toward increases in government power via the Constitution we already have. I can't dispute that point.

I guess it's a case of me choosing the devil I know over the devil I don't know.

My amendment to the constitution:

The right to secede from this nation shall not be infringed. And by shall not be infringed, it means that anyone infringing upon that right, can be hanged, drawn, & quartered by anybody without penalty at any time. And then shat upon.

 

[osan]

What improvements to the Constitution would you hope to see implemented in a Constitutional Convention?

Glad you asked. Behold, my latest draft of Amendment XXIX:




Amendment XXIX




Because individuals holding public office and other governmental appointments occupy positions of special trust and privilege, they must be sternly held to a higher standard of behavior. Intent of action is irrelevant to the actual results that arise from the choices made by those in such positions.


The purpose of this Amendment is to address those results and to specify the hazards all such individuals shall face for the commission of Crimes and Violations against those to whom they swear oaths of good faith and competent service.


Free Men stand under the constant threat of others who would see them subdued and reduced in status to some form and degree of servitude. It matters no whit whence the threat, but when “government” in any form or fraction thereof becomes the source of such threats, the risks to life, limb, and other properties of Free Men are most acutely set to hazard.

This Amendment seeks to reduce the means and abilities by which any government instrument may be set against the Free Men of America by outlining in detail the limits to be placed upon all such instruments, as well as the hazards they face in the event of any violation of the Rights of a Free Man. It further reasserts the powers of Free Men to resist violations by “government”.

I. Definitions​

This section shall set forth and define all special terms used in this Amendment

Public

Of, or relating to, anything governmental in nature.

Anything funded by taxation, whether in whole or in part.



The specifications of this definition applies to any and all levels and forms of governance/government, whether federal, state, county, city, or village, etc.. There is no form, level, type, category, or degree of “government” to which this definition does not apply. All public business, positions, and endeavors fall under this definition. No public office, agency, instrumentality, goal, objective, or endeavor may be labeled or categorized as not being public. Any such mislabeling or false categorization, or misuse, or misapplication shall constitute a Crime.




Instrument, “government instrument”, "public instrument"


Any individual who has been elected to public office, whether by the people, by a public body, or by any other means whatsoever.


Any individual appointed to any public office or other public position by any means whatsoever.

Any individual hired as a public employee to any public position whatsoever.


Any individual publicly contracted to discharge any public duties whatsoever.


This applies not only to individuals, but any group thereof imaginable that might be elected, appointed, hired, or contracted pursuant to public duties.

These three terms are perfect analogs.




Crime


A Crime is any act committed by any government instrument in violation of the rights of those to whom such instruments have sworn an oath of good faith and service. All violations of the oath constitute Crimes.




Criminal Debt


That which is owed by an individual in consequence of having been duly convicted of a criminal act in a court of Law, by a jury of one’s peers.

A Criminal Debt may include material assets, as well as time such as that comprising a prison sentence, or a death penalty.

Anything penal or compensatory in nature as assessed against a public instrument duly convicted of a Crime, or a Violation as part of what they owe in restitution to their victims and/or as punishment for the deeds of which they have been duly convicted.




Violation


A violation is any act committed by a government instrument for which there is no rational and just basis. Prevailing circumstances provide no mitigating relief for instruments who act to violate Free Men who have committed no criminal acts for which interference would be otherwise justified. Violations and Crimes are perfect analogs.




Amended Crime [Violation]


An Amended Crime is one where the perpetrator has made sufficient reparations to his victim for each criminal act to assess said victim as having been remade as whole in terms of every loss suffered at the hands of the perpetrator.




Unamended Crime [Violation]


An Unamended Crime is one where the perpetrator is either incapable of, or unwilling to make whole the victims upon whom he has committed a Violation.

In the case of incapacity, the Crime committed may not be regarded as being aggravated beyond the usual measure of such a Crime. For example, in the case of death resulting from the Crime, there is no means of restoring the victim to wholeness.

In the case of no will to amend, the Crime committed may be regarded as being aggravated beyond the usual measure of such a Crime. For example, in the case of theft, the perpetrator refuses to return the stolen items to his victim, despite his ability to do so, or provide said victim with a suitable replacement.






Free Man


Any human individual not living under Criminal Debt.




Criminal


Any human individual living within the territorial borders of the United States of American who has committed a Crime, or is living under Criminal Debt, having been previously and duly convicted of a Crime.




Restored Man

The moment a Criminal Debt is discharged in full, the convict is restored to full rights and may no longer be referred to as “convict”, save to state the fact that he was once convicted of a Crime.

In the case of instruments, restoration is limited as specified herein.

II. Limits of Action​

Under no circumstance, including those of declared “emergencies” and “crises” shall any government instrument be empowered to violate the inherent Rights of Free Men within the territorial boundaries of the United States of America, nor those of any American citizen who may be abroad of those boundaries.


The Bill of Rights, as embodied in Amendments 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, and 9, reign supreme, all other considerations and purports to governmental authority waning to near vanishing in the shadows of those enumerations.

III. Waiver of Rights​

Where matters concerning the duties of an instrument’s office and position are concerned, prior to perfection of the instrument, the individual must agree to a waiver of certain Constitutional protections. The waiver shall include the following:

1. 1. Right to privacy
   2. Right to remain silent
   3. Right to not self-incriminate
   4. Right to legal counsel

Pursuant to these waivers, all instruments agree to answer fully and with complete candor and honesty, with no omissions of truth, all questions put to them during investigations of possible Crimes and Violations committed by themselves or other instruments against Free Men.

Refusal to answer in the ways required shall be taken to constitute prima facie proof of one’s criminal intent and shall result in not one day less than ten years at hard labor with no possibility of parole at a military barracks such as that found at Ft. Leavenworth.

IV. Amended Violations​

Any instrument convicted of a Crime or other Violation and who amends his deeds sufficient to the victim’s assessment shall have their penalties reduced in severity as judge and victim(s) shall agree.

V. Unamended Violations​

Any instrument convicted of a Crime or other Violation and who is either incapable of making proper amends due to the nature of the Crime or his incapacity, shall endure the full force of penalties but may be shown consideration if the victims accede to it.

In the case where the convicted refuses to make amends where he might otherwise be able to do so, the Crime shall stand as aggravated and the convict shall bear the full force of penalties, with neither consideration nor mercy, the victim(s) having no say in the matters of such consideration or mercy.

VI. Penalties​

Those convicted of Crimes or other Violations as instruments of government shall bear the following penalties:

1. Immediate loss of office/position, as well as all benefits, rights, privileges, and protections attached thereto
2. Prohibition from holding any public office or other public position, whether elected, appointed, hired, or contracted, for life.
3. All properties and other assets of the instrument shall be forfeit. Any properties transferred to other parties, which can be demonstrated to have been so transferred as a measure to avoid forfeiture, shall come nonetheless equally under forfeiture.
4. Any family member, friend, or other associate of the instrument who can be proven to have had knowledge of the Crime(s) in question and who failed to come forward to expose said Crime(s) shall be held equally guilty and shall endure equal penalties.
5. Unamended Crimes shall be punished with not less than ten years at hard labor and not more than life at hard labor, save those that constitute Treason, which shall punished by public execution.

VII. False Accusation​

Pursuant to truer justice, and given the severity of the penalties for instruments convicted of Crimes or Violations, government instruments must enjoy proper protection against false accusation. To that end, anyone who accuses an instrument of Crimes and/or Violations in a formal manner shall face the precise same hazards of those whom they so accuse. In the case where accusations prove to be intentionally false, the accuser shall suffer the punishments that would have been meted to the instrument, had said instrument been convicted. Where false accusations have been made where it can be demonstrated that proper care would have lead to no charge, the accusers shall be punished by six months at hard labor.

VIII. Defense Against Crimes and Violations​

Free Men retain the right to resist Crimes and other Violations perpetrated against them by government instruments, using any means they deem necessary to preserve the integrity of life, limb, freedom, and other property. It is only by the non-violent presentation of a valid warrant that a Free Man may be compelled to cooperate with instruments in the immediate term. Any violence initiated by instruments in the service of a warrant renders the warrant invalid, leaving subject(s) of the warrant free to take defensive measures. Any violence initiated by the subject of a valid warrant gives the serving instruments leave to take defensive measures to affect service, but nothing more.


Free Men may convene courts of their own making to address Crimes and Violations, particularly when it is deemed that governmental courts have not or will not discharge their duties in accord with the protections against Crimes and Violations. Such failures in themselves constitute Crimes and shall be treated in accord with the specifications of this Amendment. The convening of such courts renders all who become administratively involved with the proceedings as public instruments for the tenure of said proceedings, obliged to face the precise same risks, hazards, and penalties as any other instrument.

IX. Oath of Good Faith and Competent Service​

Prior to perfecting any governmental instrument, the individual(s) in question must take the following oath, which shall remain in force for the duration of the instrument’s tenure. The requirement to answer questions relating to duties of said tenure shall persist for not less than thirty years after lapse:


“I , <state full name>, do solemnly swear under pain of penalties I acknowledge and to which I accede in advance, to uphold the Constitution of the United States of America and to defend it from all enemies, foreign and domestic.


I do further solemnly swear, under pain of penalties I acknowledge and to which I accede in advance, to abstain under any and all circumstances from committing Crimes and other Violations of the rights of those to whom I swear this oath, which is to say the entirety of the People of the United States of America.


I do finally and solemnly swear, under pain of penalties I acknowledge and to which I accede in advance, to make whole all those whom I unjustly damage, whether through accident, ignorance, or unjust intent. Any refusal to make my victims whole shall stand as prima facie proof of criminal intent against them.


Pursuant to the above sworn oath, I hereby waive my Constitutional rights to privacy and to not self-incriminate in all matters relating to every facet of my sworn duties of office and position of special trust as a public servant. I waive my right to legal counsel and I vow to answer all questions put to me relating to the relevant matters of my duties with the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.


I swear this oath of fealty, good faith and competent, honest, and honorable service to every individual man, woman, and child to whom the duties of my office shall apply.


I so swear this oath in the full capacity to do so with informed will and understanding, and without mental reservation.


I swear it upon my honor, and my life, understanding and accepting that both may be forfeit if I violate this attestation and affirmation of public duty to the Free People of America.



Thus endeth the Amendment.