A Tough One - Civil Rights

[Sunshinysmile]

This does not seem right to me...suppose it was the 50s and no Black people were allowed to fly in planes...heck that might have been the case! Besides, the airlines get an awful lot of tax payer money...tax payers of all skin colors and origins... I wonder what RP would think.

Airline Wins Appeal on Passenger Removal
January 11, 2008 - 3:57pm

BOSTON (AP) - A federal appeals court overturned a $400,000 jury award to a Portuguese-born passenger who sued American Airlines Inc., claiming he was removed from a flight because of racial discrimination.

The U.S. Court of Appeals in Boston vacated an award to John Cerqueira, 40, and criticized U.S. District Judge William G. Young for not dismissing the complaint.

"No properly instructed jury could return a verdict against the air carrier," Circuit Judge Sandra Lynch wrote in the decision issued Thursday.

Under the Air Transportation Security Act, the three-judge panel ruled, carriers are permitted to turn away passengers who might be "inimical to safety." Because the crew must decide such matters quickly, it said, "even mistaken decisions are protected so long as they are not arbitrary or capricious."

Cerqueira, a naturalized American citizen who was born in Portugal, was removed from the December 2003 flight to Fort Lauderdale, Fla., along with two Israeli men seated in his row.

In his suit, Cerqueira, a computer consultant, claimed flight personnel cited him as a security risk because "his color and physical appearance is similar to that of individuals who are Arab, Middle Eastern, or South Asian."

State Police later concluded the three weren't a security threat, but the airline did not allow them to re-board. Cerqueira was described as hostile by one flight attendant.

The U.S. District Court jury had issued its verdict in January 2007, awarding $130,000 in compensatory damages and $270,000 in punitive damages.

David Godkin, attorney for Cerqueira, told the Boston Herald he may appeal. Michael Fitzhugh, an attorney for the airline, declined to comment.

 

[Ilhaguru]

This does not seem right to me...suppose it was the 50s and no Black people were allowed to fly in planes...heck that might have been the case! Besides, the airlines get an awful lot of tax payer money...tax payers of all skin colors and origins... I wonder what RP would think.

He would think: Why are the airlines getting tax payer money?

Airlines = private property. If they want a KKK Airways, go ahead. Most businesses even back then allowed blacks too anyways, and that's yet another example of how laissez-faire capitalism promotes peace.

 

[Sunshinysmile]

So the airline should ask for a photo before they sell you a ticket?

 

[Brutus]

They could, but they probably wouldn't.

The whole concept of "freedom of association" is difficult to grasp if you're used to being dictated to.

 

[Sunshinysmile]

I guess it is no different than WalMart putting out "White Only" signs...not happening. But would this "desegregation" of the consumer side of the market have happened if not for the CRA '64? Are we really supporting the idea of segregated hospitals, trains, juries, etc.? Theory and principal are good, but how can it compete with angry, evil, violent racism/white supremacy?

 

[jclay2]

That is absolute bull crap. If they thought he was a security risk then they should have done extra security checks on him and then let him on. This is rediculous. However I guess they can do what they want and suffer the business consequences.

 

[Zavoi]

I would certainly concede that as long as the airlines are receiving so much government money, then they should not use it to prop up a discriminatory enterprise. But the highest priority, of course, has to be to remove this funding. Only then will airlines have to accept the monetary consequences of arbitrarily turning away customers.

 

[ambiguousscion]

I think he should not use that company anymore and tell all his friends and the media the story. The company would then be financially coerced.

 

[snaFU]

I hate lib tard shit like this

 

[Sunshinysmile]

lib tard shit? what are you talking about? Is it because there won't be a day when white men will get put off planes for being white men? I guess McVey should have worn blackface.

You certainly are not a gentleman like Ron Paul. And you are quite a turn off to potential supporters.

 

[Ilhaguru]

I guess it is no different than WalMart putting out "White Only" signs...not happening.

Yup. It's the same argument that free trade will bring peace to the world. When one side's wealth depends on the well-being of the other, you have a lot more interest in their well-being than bombing them back to the stone age.

But would this "desegregation" of the consumer side of the market have happened if not for the CRA '64?

Do you think we can solve the problems of the world through force? Because that's what the CRA is, and that's what anything the government does is. People wised up and dropped racism because it is just stupid, at least most of us. The Civil Rights movement was useful in helping getting rid of segregation caused by the government, but people didn't stop being racist because the government told them so. They learned it by living in that era, by listening to MLK, by seeing their plea.

Are we really supporting the idea of segregated hospitals, trains, juries, etc.?

Not at all. The last thing we want is racism coming back. But we believe that when dealing with private property, the owners have the right to implement whatever rules, stupid or not.

Think about it. Racism is stupidity. Can you throw someone in jail for being stupid?

Theory and principal are good, but how can it compete with angry, evil, violent racism/white supremacy?

These ideas are fading away quickly. They are part of an ugly past. When it comes to violence government has every right to throw those in jail. In fact, that is the reason we set up governments.

 

[Sunshinysmile]

Thanks so much for your reply. It was helpful

 

[Fox McCloud]

while I wouldn't be happy for an airlines doing something like this, I'd support their right, 100% to do it. If the government dictates that I have to accept "XXXXXX" minority no matter what, think of the atrocities it would open up. Yeah, something like that is all innocent at first....but look what happened in Europe.

Since the formation of the EU, they did stuff like this; for example, a doctor cannot deny a woman an abortion now...if the doctor is against it, and says "sorry, you'll have to go to some other place", the woman can, in turn, go to the courts and they'll revoke that doctor's license.

You see, while things like this are innocent enough, in the beginning, they always lead to bigger, much worse things later.

 

[LibertyRevolution]

The U.S. Court of Appeals in Boston vacated an award to John Cerqueira, 40, and criticized U.S. District Judge William G. Young for not dismissing the complaint.
"No properly instructed jury could return a verdict against the air carrier," Circuit Judge Sandra Lynch wrote in the decision issued Thursday.

For the record, as a juror you have the right to judge the fairness and use of the law that is being sited. You DO NOT have to fallow the judges instructions! The reasoning behind this judges decision to throw out this award, is sickening.

Should the airline have the right to not allow any passenger it chooses on board. YES. Should they be allowed to say were not letting any Arab looking people onto our plane? Yes. Would this be good for their business, NO. People would boycott and protest them. So how do they avoid this public unrest?, they just have a judge do their dirty work for them to avoid the bad press.

 

[SuMuKong]

This does not seem right to me...suppose it was the 50s and no Black people were allowed to fly in planes...heck that might have been the case! Besides, the airlines get an awful lot of tax payer money...tax payers of all skin colors and origins... I wonder what RP would think.

Airline Wins Appeal on Passenger Removal
January 11, 2008 - 3:57pm

BOSTON (AP) - A federal appeals court overturned a $400,000 jury award to a Portuguese-born passenger who sued American Airlines Inc., claiming he was removed from a flight because of racial discrimination.

The U.S. Court of Appeals in Boston vacated an award to John Cerqueira, 40, and criticized U.S. District Judge William G. Young for not dismissing the complaint.

"No properly instructed jury could return a verdict against the air carrier," Circuit Judge Sandra Lynch wrote in the decision issued Thursday.

Under the Air Transportation Security Act, the three-judge panel ruled, carriers are permitted to turn away passengers who might be "inimical to safety." Because the crew must decide such matters quickly, it said, "even mistaken decisions are protected so long as they are not arbitrary or capricious."

Cerqueira, a naturalized American citizen who was born in Portugal, was removed from the December 2003 flight to Fort Lauderdale, Fla., along with two Israeli men seated in his row.

In his suit, Cerqueira, a computer consultant, claimed flight personnel cited him as a security risk because "his color and physical appearance is similar to that of individuals who are Arab, Middle Eastern, or South Asian."

State Police later concluded the three weren't a security threat, but the airline did not allow them to re-board. Cerqueira was described as hostile by one flight attendant.

The U.S. District Court jury had issued its verdict in January 2007, awarding $130,000 in compensatory damages and $270,000 in punitive damages.

David Godkin, attorney for Cerqueira, told the Boston Herald he may appeal. Michael Fitzhugh, an attorney for the airline, declined to comment.

In a true free-market, the airliners would not be subsidized by government money. Thus the government would remain neutral on the question of segregation within airplanes.

However, I doubt that the market would remain neutral. I wouldn't want to buy my tickets from a segregated airline. What about customers in the '50s? Certainly, in the South, such customers might be found. Ultimately, though, the market would have decided that segregation was a bad idea and dropped it.

 

[Sunshinysmile]

Help Ron Paul--Look In the MIRROR

If the government dictates that I have to accept "XXXXXX" minority no matter what, think of the atrocities it would open up.

What does "allowing" all "minorities" on a plane "open up"? And what is a "minority?" If you are talking about people with brown skin, there are more of us than you in the world. However, I thought we were all individual Americans, members of no group. Which is it? You can't have it both ways.

Many of you scream "Reverse racism!" when one Black man gets a job or is accepted at an elite school, but you see no problem with limiting "OTHER" people's access. If there was no discrimination in the government, there would not have been a need to "outlaw" discrimination. Just 40 years ago "minorities" who are CITIZENS were given the right to vote again. Do you really think those same people who wrote laws to steal our rights from us would hire us in governement? Highly unlikely. Well maybe to clean toilets--and years ago there was an attempt in the federal government to limit the pay of DOMESTICS! And who were the domestics then? Black women!!! And today, the powers that be are allowing non-citizens to vote easy as getting fake papers, getting a drivers license, and registering by mail---easy as pie!


You all know so much history, but many of you intentionally ignore the history of this country that bruises your self image. Some of you act like America was once a just and free country. It has never been just and free. We are striving for that. Some of you pretend like "racial groups" just trade atrocities against each other--pretending like Black people ever strung white people from trees and had picnics while they castrated them or cut their bellies open. I think there just might be more white men blowing up brown people in the world than "minorities" killings "majorities".

For this revolution to work, many of you need to look deep in the mirror and recognize that you are a white supremacist disguising your ugly, damaging feelings under the banner of freedom.

I believe in freedom, the freedom for us all to be american brothers and sisters. But many of you want the freedom to be seperated from the people that you believe you are better than---the very people that have been mistreated by local state and federal governments that happen to be run by PEOPLE like you---mistreated by proprietors who wanted to sell products while insulting non-white people---mistreated by you, your parents, your grandparents and so on. White people who think they are superior to non-white people (which is most of them-if not all) have been so blinded by their indoctrination that they do not even realize when they harm and insult non-white people much of the time.

Time after time, I find that MANY Ron Paul supporters have NO empathy, compassion, or understanding or sense of brotherhood for the people they consider "minorities". NONE. You all help support the idea that Ron Paul is a racist. I have been doing my best not to believe it, but many of his supporters make it hard.

I was in a Ron Paul chat room last night and one room admin wrote into the room, "the South will rise again!" Now what am I supposed to think about that? Ron Paul is right...the government has done a terrible job educating its citizens. Some of you are a mess.

 

[tcindie]

Ron Paul is right...the government has done a terrible job educating its citizens. Some of you are a mess.

As a member of the true minority of the world (white male) I wholeheartedly agree.

There is an awful lot of hatred toward people with different views, etc.. Masquerading as someone who believes in liberty when you only believe in liberty for yourself does not a patriot, libertarian, or good person make.

Some of the people I've encountered recently hold some truly shocking beliefs -- beliefs that most decidedly are not in line with what this whole movement is about.

 

[zmyrick19]

What does "allowing" all "minorities" on a plane "open up"? And what is a "minority?" If you are talking about people with brown skin, there are more of us than you in the world. However, I thought we were all individual Americans, members of no group. Which is it? You can't have it both ways.

Many of you scream "Reverse racism!" when one Black man gets a job or is accepted at an elite school, but you see no problem with limiting "OTHER" people's access. If there was no discrimination in the government, there would not have been a need to "outlaw" discrimination. Just 40 years ago "minorities" who are CITIZENS were given the right to vote again. Do you really think those same people who wrote laws to steal our rights from us would hire us in governement? Highly unlikely. Well maybe to clean toilets--and years ago there was an attempt in the federal government to limit the pay of DOMESTICS! And who were the domestics then? Black women!!! And today, the powers that be are allowing non-citizens to vote easy as getting fake papers, getting a drivers license, and registering by mail---easy as pie!


You all know so much history, but many of you intentionally ignore the history of this country that bruises your self image. Some of you act like America was once a just and free country. It has never been just and free. We are striving for that. Some of you pretend like "racial groups" just trade atrocities against each other--pretending like Black people ever strung white people from trees and had picnics while they castrated them or cut their bellies open. I think there just might be more white men blowing up brown people in the world than "minorities" killings "majorities".

For this revolution to work, many of you need to look deep in the mirror and recognize that you are a white supremacist disguising your ugly, damaging feelings under the banner of freedom.

I believe in freedom, the freedom for us all to be american brothers and sisters. But many of you want the freedom to be seperated from the people that you believe you are better than---the very people that have been mistreated by local state and federal governments that happen to be run by PEOPLE like you---mistreated by proprietors who wanted to sell products while insulting non-white people---mistreated by you, your parents, your grandparents and so on. White people who think they are superior to non-white people (which is most of them-if not all) have been so blinded by their indoctrination that they do not even realize when they harm and insult non-white people much of the time.

Time after time, I find that MANY Ron Paul supporters have NO empathy, compassion, or understanding or sense of brotherhood for the people they consider "minorities". NONE. You all help support the idea that Ron Paul is a racist. I have been doing my best not to believe it, but many of his supporters make it hard.

I was in a Ron Paul chat room last night and one room admin wrote into the room, "the South will rise again!" Now what am I supposed to think about that? Ron Paul is right...the government has done a terrible job educating its citizens. Some of you are a mess.

This kind of disgusting ideology is exactly what Ron Paul advocates against. You should not have a collectivist attitude, such as "all us {insert racial group here} are better than all that other racial group." Instead work on becoming a strong individual human being. In a Free society, you have the choice of becoming the strongest if you wish to do so.

 

[Sunshinysmile]

Great signature quote tcindie...this is a hard row to tow! Your comments are duly noted.

 

[Fox McCloud]

What does "allowing" all "minorities" on a plane "open up"? And what is a "minority?" If you are talking about people with brown skin, there are more of us than you in the world. However, I thought we were all individual Americans, members of no group. Which is it? You can't have it both ways.

You completely missed by point; I wasn't trying to put people into groups, I was just using the term "minorities" to describe non-whites in the United States. I was merely pointing out that if the government can dictate to an airline who they have to accept on a flight, minority or not, it opens up the door for them to be able to dictate other things. Didn't you read my entire post? It's as if you saw my first statement, then immediately quoted it and replied to it, in anger. As I said, the government doing this would appear to be a good thing, at first, and it would be fairly innocent...but it could very easily lead to the government dictating other things later...once you give the government any ounce of power, they'll use it to the maximum degree and extend it to as many areas they possibly can.

we need equal treatment under the law (individualism), we cannot use the law to make us equal (collectivism).