a story of corruption and what a lot of you dont get.

[garrettwombat]

Sheriffs must do something different in your part of the country. Hmm.

a sheriffs job is to organize the spending the commissioners allow them.. he decides what is appropriate for the cash to go to (in all reality though, its up to the commissioners or else the police departments wont get as much money from them)

What do commissioners do in your part of the country?

commissioners regulate where money is spent and on what projects are created and how much money is spent on them.

 

[garrettwombat]

all i can say is im the son of a something and i hear things something i shouldnt something something

iv been threatened, have my family threatened, iv had things vandalized iv seen murders that occur by "accedents" for reasons.

ill tell you a story about a man who ran for sheriff and won and ended up getting killed by his own deputies.

the former sheriff had it set up as a drug bust and when the deputies got to the sheriffs house they shot and killed him... now the deputies got convicted.. but the people on top sure played the hell out of them, and you cant change time, the deal is always done and the people on top always use pawns for there dirty work.

that wont change the fact we lost our only noncurrupt sheriff and had to bring back our old one because of it.

im not saying it was truly a set up, and im not saying anyone was behind it, but, things like this happen and its mighty strange.

 

[francisco]

You guys should watch the Showtime (HBO? I forget) series called The Wire. It is about Baltimore, written by a journalist who has been reporting on and exposing Baltimore's politicians, drug dealers, and yes, construction companies for 20 years, and it is in the "realistic fiction" genre, in that most of it is based on real life stories and so could and does happen. I understand exactly what the original poster is talking about, and I'm not sure how much it applies to smaller towns, but cities with population 1 million+, states, and the country... he's speaking the truth.

Corruption is like the arteries, veins, and backbone of politics... it lets the blood money flow to all the right parts, and the whole system would fall in a day if it ever happened to go away - that's why I'm so excited about Ron Paul - I think we'll be seeing a truly free and 100% capitalist society in our lifetimes.

Yeahh THE WIRE!!!

Best TV show, EVER.

Way too complex and nuanced for the average viewer, so it's never achieved high ratings. Unbelievable writing and character development.

Got to start at the beginning, otherwise you'll quickly be lost. Always tape the episode because you'll watch it over and over again and discover something new each time. Also, turn on closed captioning. (DVDs are available on Netflix).

 

[xao]

In 04' I knew a guy who got threatened when running for city council. He got a phone call threat. He complained to the chief and cheif said he couldn't really do anything. So the just shut off his land line phone and only used his internet phone to make calls and recieve calls(not sure how this works). All his neighbors are gun owners and it's hard to get to this guys house anyway so there's no way anyone could vandalize it. If someone had tried they would have had the whole neighborhood filling them with holes. The moral to this story is, have good neighbors, have some tough guy friends(maybe some MMA type trainers) and be prepared to go a few months of living mainly at home and only going out with a group of friends. Another good thing is to perhaps not have any children or perhaps even a wife if you are going to Run for any important seat.

 

[dude58677]

listen if any of you think for a second lawyers defend anything other than there client you guys are nuts...

a lawyer does not and cannot up hold the constitution.
only the jury or judge can.

a lawyer goes through thousands of state and local government laws and ordinances

"a lawyer is never wrong."
remember that statement and it is true because there are hundreds of loop holes in the system

when i talk about commisioners, sheriffs, or the mayor you do not need to know the law... when your a judge you do... the judge rules over the lawyers so even if you are a lawyer defending the law and the constitution , the judge and jury is the one you have to please.

im talking about local government here to people, stop bringing up presidents.
why on earth would anyone want a lawyer for local government other than a judge position????

If you are referring to tax lawyers then you are 100 percent correct. They want the Internal Revenue Code to be as complex as possible so they have more to litigate. If you are talking about criminal defense lawyers then you are wrong. They are in it to see that the defendent has a fair trial. Or if it is a lawyer that sues the government for violating the Constitution, this case you are wrong.

But Ron Paul isn't a lawyer and is instead a medical doctor, so this point is moot.

 

[Truth Warrior]

99% of lawyers give all of the rest of them a bad name.

 

[dude58677]

99% of lawyers give all of the rest of them a bad name.

 

[jmcmsu]

If you are referring to tax lawyers then you are 100 percent correct. They want the Internal Revenue Code to be as complex as possible so they have more to litigate. If you are talking about criminal defense lawyers then you are wrong. They are in it to see that the defendent has a fair trial. Or if it is a lawyer that sues the government for violating the Constitution, this case you are wrong.

But Ron Paul isn't a lawyer and is instead a medical doctor, so this point is moot.

I have plenty of friends who want to be tax lawyers and they are supporting Ron Paul and the abolition of the IRS. I guess my point is you shouldn't immediately make a judgment call on someone based solely off the fact they have a J.D. I'm going to be a lawyer and I wanted to go to law school because I believe in the Constitution and the rule of law. I would be pretty upset if I tried to run for office someday as a "Ron Paul Republican" and somebody was telling others not to vote for me solely because I was a lawyer.

 

[Revolution9]

I have plenty of friends who want to be tax lawyers and they are supporting Ron Paul and the abolition of the IRS. I guess my point is you shouldn't immediately make a judgment call on someone based solely off the fact they have a J.D. I'm going to be a lawyer and I wanted to go to law school because I believe in the Constitution and the rule of law. I would be pretty upset if I tried to run for office someday as a "Ron Paul Republican" and somebody was telling others not to vote for me solely because I was a lawyer.

You take an oath to The British Bar and all your materials for your profession are copywritten by them,. I believe that is a conflict of interest..well hidden but there still none the same.

Best
Randy

 

[Mr. White]

Politics is corrupt? Who'd have thought? Money organizes people, organized people equal votes, votes generate money for the voted and the organizer. You don't get elected if you don't promise people something, that's how it works.

*shrug*

Oh, law student here.

 

[philipsantamaria]

all this anti-lawyer talk is ridiculous.

A man's occupation does not make him corrupt. The corrupt man corrupts his occupation.

 

[tmg19103]

In PA the counties have a Court of Common Pleas with roughly 14-20 judges depending on size of county and three county commissioners.

The true power and corruption is with the Senior Judges. Whether it is pure ego or kickbacks, they make all sorts of unscrupulous rulings.

Since the majority of the elected county and township commissioners are lawyers, they must kiss up to these judges for fear of losing cases.

It is really a mafia-like organization where they keep outsiders OUT if you want to try and join the political process.

To get in, you have to start with involvement in your neighborhood civic assocaition, then you are hand picked if you are a good soldier by having your name run up the flag pole to the Sernior Judges. That gives you permission and support to run for township commissioner.

9 of my 12 township commissioners are lawyers. They only get $4,000 a year and put in LONG hours many evenings a month. Why would they do this? Because the judges will rule favorably (and often in a manner that defies the law) in their cases before the Court of Common Pleas and they also do it to gain name recognition to bring in more law business. It is completely selfish and really has nothing to do with truly serving the community - and they all turn a blind eye to the corruption and kickbacks because it helps their careers and helps them make money.

And yes, the builders, especially with the recent real estate boom, play a big part, but they are not at the top. They contribute to political campaigns to get the contracts and zoning they want. Builders who don't give to the campaigns of judges and commissioners - as well as their pet projects, don't get building permits.

 

[Green Mountain Boy]

You take an oath to The British Bar and all your materials for your profession are copywritten by them,. I believe that is a conflict of interest..well hidden but there still none the same.

Best
Randy

Yes.... Esquires of the Crown

 

[jmcmsu]

Yes.... Esquires of the Crown

I take no such oath. I will take an oath to uphold the Constitution. In fact here is a sample oath from Michigan. They are all pretty much the same (except some include So Help me God at the end).

I do solemnly swear (or affirm):

I will support the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of the State of Michigan;

I will maintain the respect due to courts of justice and judicial officers;

I will not counsel or maintain any suit or proceeding which shall appear to me to be unjust, nor any defense except such as I believe to be honestly debatable under the law of the land;

I will employ for the purpose of maintaining the causes confided to me such means only as are consistent with truth and honor, and will never seek to mislead the judge or jury by any artifice or false statement of fact or law;

I will maintain the confidence and preserve inviolate the secrets of my client, and will accept no compensation in connection with my client’s business except with my client’s knowledge and approval;

I will abstain from all offensive personality, and advance no fact prejudicial to the honor or reputation of a party or witness, unless required by the justice of the cause with which I am charged;

I will never reject, from any consideration personal to myself, the cause of the defenseless or oppressed, or delay any cause for lucre or malice;

I will in all other respects conduct myself personally and professionally in conformity with the high standards of conduct imposed upon members of the bar as conditions for the privilege to practice law in this State.

 

[OReich]

As a current law student and Ron Paul supporter this is the most ridiculous thing I have seen posted on this message board in a long time.
- Don't elect lawyers to local positions???? Are you serious?

Ron Paul has built his campaign on respect for the rule of law and the Constitution. Lawyers build their careers off of the rule of law and the Constitution.

In fact, during Alexis De Tocqueville's visit to America he wrote entire chapters in his book about the importance of lawyers to America's democracy.

"IN visiting the Americans and studying their laws, we perceive that the authority they have entrusted to members of the legal profession, and the influence; that these individuals exercise in the government, are the most powerful existing security against the excesses of democracy" - Tocqueville

"Lawyers belong to the people by birth and interest, and to the aristocracy by habit and taste; they may be looked upon as the connecting link between the two great classes of society." - Tocqueville

For more on why he thought lawyers were crucial to a successful democracy see this link which is directly from his writings. (Scroll down a little bit to Chapter 16).
http://xroads.virginia.edu/~HYPER/DETOC/1_ch16.htm

I'm a prelaw student, too, but the logic makes sense: lawyers have connections, especially business lawyers. My dad, also a lawyer, is the sweetest and most innocent person you'll ever meet, but you have to take my word for it. He, like I think the vast majority of lawyers, knows tons of politicians (local I mean), drug dealers, and important business owners. As sweet as innocent as he is, if he WASN'T, he'd be capable of running a corrupt operation. That being said, the general policy of "Don't elect lawyers" sounds awesome to me. Maybe we can make it more complicated than that, IE hold politicians to a high standard of transparency, but frankly, "Don't elect lawyers" sounds great by me. To be fair, I've only thought about this now that this thread was started, so maybe once I put more thought into it I'll think differently. (Lol, I wanna get into politics, but the greater good will be served if NO lawyer was elected prob.)

 

[Just Come Home]

I can't imagine a bank so small that someone could own it. Aren't Bank of America and Citibank near-monopolies everywhere?

There are community banks all over the place.

 

[garrettwombat]

And yes, the builders, especially with the recent real estate boom, play a big part, but they are not at the top. They contribute to political campaigns to get the contracts and zoning they want. Builders who don't give to the campaigns of judges and commissioners - as well as their pet projects, don't get building permits.

they may not be on top, but at the beginning they are.

its like this.
the candidates are the seeds.
the builders are the sowers.
when the candidates get elected and grows.
the builders and criminals can then thrive from its fruits.

 

[jmcmsu]

I'm a prelaw student, too, but the logic makes sense: lawyers have connections, especially business lawyers. My dad, also a lawyer, is the sweetest and most innocent person you'll ever meet, but you have to take my word for it. He, like I think the vast majority of lawyers, knows tons of politicians (local I mean), drug dealers, and important business owners. As sweet as innocent as he is, if he WASN'T, he'd be capable of running a corrupt operation. That being said, the general policy of "Don't elect lawyers" sounds awesome to me. Maybe we can make it more complicated than that, IE hold politicians to a high standard of transparency, but frankly, "Don't elect lawyers" sounds great by me. To be fair, I've only thought about this now that this thread was started, so maybe once I put more thought into it I'll think differently. (Lol, I wanna get into politics, but the greater good will be served if NO lawyer was elected prob.)

Look, lawyers form a huge portion of our elected officials and have played pivotal roles in our democracy. If you had your way we never would've elected James Madison, Thomas Jefferson or John Adams to public office and they were our founding fathers! If you make it to law school you'll see how beneficial a legal education is to understanding our political/legal process in this country and why it's important to have lawyers making laws. Bush (an MBA) has destroyed the rule of law in part because he doesn't understand or respect it. Lawyers are trained to understand and respect the rule of law (which includes the common law).

 

[Green Mountain Boy]

I take no such oath. I will take an oath to uphold the Constitution. In fact here is a sample oath from Michigan. They are all pretty much the same (except some include So Help me God at the end).

All Bar Associations throughout the world are signatories and franchises to the international Bar Association located at the Inns of Court at Crown Temple, which are physically located at Chancery Lane behind Fleet Street in London.

The Inns of Court to the Crown Temple use the Banking and Judicial system of the City of London - a sovereign and independent territory which is not a part of Great Britain (just as Washington City, as DC was called in the 1800’s, is not a part of the north American states, nor is it a state).

Judges = bankers in black robes

 

[garrettwombat]

Look, lawyers form a huge portion of our elected officials and have played pivotal roles in our democracy. If you had your way we never would've elected James Madison, Thomas Jefferson or John Adams to public office and they were our founding fathers! If you make it to law school you'll see how beneficial a legal education is to understanding our political/legal process in this country and why it's important to have lawyers making laws. Bush (an MBA) has destroyed the rule of law in part because he doesn't understand or respect it. Lawyers are trained to understand and respect the rule of law (which includes the common law).

you guys are obviously not hearing me out.... LOCAL GOVERNMENT.... more specifically... COMMISSIONERS


and of course there are a lot of lawyers in our government as elected officials for obvious reasons...
"lawyers are never wrong"