A Store Without a Checkout Counter? JCPenney Presses on with Retail Revolution

[Sam I am]

It amazes me how so many people believe that they have a right to privacy in someone else's space.

What if you invited someone to your house, and they complained about any and all cameras that you had personally set up in your own house. Would you take their complaints as legitimate?

What If you had a camera mounted to the outside of your house? Would you appreciate someone telling you that you don't have the right to do that?

 

[moostraks]

It amazes me how so many people believe that they have a right to privacy in someone else's space.

What if you invited someone to your house, and they complained about any and all cameras that you had personally set up in your own house. Would you take their complaints as legitimate?

What If you had a camera mounted to the outside of your house? Would you appreciate someone telling you that you don't have the right to do that?

false analogy...big businesses lobby the government to destroy smaller businesses and private individuals that will operate in a manner that respects the privacy of the customer. The customer has every right to voice their complaints when a business solicits sales and a business has every right to ignore the customer or please the customer. They should not be allowed to use government might through bribery to destroy competition that refuses to operate in the manner they deem acceptable and ignore the will of the consumer while holding the market hostage.

 

[TrishW]

Any time you can use technology to replace a human's job it means that person can perform some other productive task, which makes society more productive as a whole. Using your logic we should just go back to the cavemen days because at least then everyone had a job and there was no stinkin technology to replace human labor. We were much more prosperous back then.

And using your logic... Most, if not all of us will soon become worthless eaters. Do you think they will keep the cute ones for pets?


If you disagree with my "faulty" logic, then perhaps you can make me a list of jobs, or as you say... productive tasks, that will not be able to be filled by artificial intelligence?

 

[TrishW]

Here is an article that will help express my thoughts.


http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2011/07/17/the-threat-of-automation-robots-threaten-american-jobs.html

 

[donnay]

Here is an article that will help express my thoughts.


http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2011/07/17/the-threat-of-automation-robots-threaten-american-jobs.html

The new-age Zeitgeist thinking is very troubling! We are one to two generations away from people being raise to not care one iota for humanity.

 

[Sam I am]

false analogy...big businesses lobby the government to destroy smaller businesses and private individuals that will operate in a manner that respects the privacy of the customer. The customer has every right to voice their complaints when a business solicits sales and a business has every right to ignore the customer or please the customer. They should not be allowed to use government might through bribery to destroy competition that refuses to operate in the manner they deem acceptable and ignore the will of the consumer while holding the market hostage.

I don't even know how to reply to this. Mostly because it's 100% off-topic and in no way addresses the post of mine that you've quoted

 

[moostraks]

I don't even know how to reply to this. Mostly because it's 100% off-topic and in no way addresses the post of mine that you've quoted

From what interpreted your point to be in your analogy, I think your analogy to businesses right to snoop (your somebody else's space) vs consumer right to privacy (People invited over who have no right to complain) is a false one. I also take offense to the issue of businesses that will employ this technology are pushing out the smaller market choices through their lobbying of the government on such think of the children measures that fall under safety standards: raw milk from local farms, handmade toys, and the like...There is not going to be a genuine market change but a small cartel of business owners will enforce change (as they have been doing to a greater and greater extent) and continue to destroy alternative options so compliance occurs.

If I was wrong in my interpretation of your previous post maybe you can enlighten me...

 

[Nickels]

First explain what imaginary privacy exists due to a lack of technology.

Before invention of binoculars, you can expect privacy when you are outdoors and see nobody around you.
Before invention of radios and recorders, you can expect that only the people in your sight can hear you.
Before invention of metal detectors, you can expect to carry metal weapons on your body without being detected, unless you were patted down.

Is my privacy imaginary when I have hard copy books instead of kindle and buy with cash from private sellers?

Possibly. As the path from buying to storing your book may have multiple opportunities of a spy.

Is my privacy imaginary when I pay for cash for my groceries or goods at a farmers market or flea market with no cameras or "courtesy" cards?

Yes. Because you cannot expect everybody around you to either not have cameras or not remember and tell others what you did. And if it's outdoors, your privacy is almost automatically gone.

Technology does not always save time and convenience is in the eye of the beholder.

It just does 99% of the time.

Automatic dishwashers have been a bane of many a housewife's existence as an example of technology not saving time.

Oh, I heard this one, just like the vaccuum cleaner, it doesn't "save time" it just "increases expectations", this is not untrue. Our expectations change, but facts are, dishwashers and vacuum cleaners get the same job done faster, or more job done in the same period of time.

My parents use theirs as a storage cabinet. The phone is a major inconvenience imo disrupting my household

If your parents are not using the washer, they are not wasting electricity or water on it, they can probably sell it for a few bucks.

You are not obligated to answer the phone, imagine the day you need it and don't have it.

at the most inopportune moment and I refuse to answer mine, having finally come to the ownership of a magic jack for the purpose of providing a phone number to places such as doctors offices which demand a contact number.

So magicjack is good or bad? It's a new option no less, isn't it?

 

[Nickels]

Any time you can use technology to replace a human's job it means that person can perform some other productive task, which makes society more productive as a whole. Using your logic we should just go back to the cavemen days because at least then everyone had a job and there was no stinkin technology to replace human labor. We were much more prosperous back then.

yep. Exactly. People who blindly complain "jobs!" are basically liberals and broken windowers, who don't look at the big picture, don't care where the money came from, and just think about themselves.

 

[Nickels]

The new-age Zeitgeist thinking is very troubling! We are one to two generations away from people being raise to not care one iota for humanity.

wanting people to be free of labor is "not caring about humanity"?

 

[Nickels]

And using your logic... Most, if not all of us will soon become worthless eaters. Do you think they will keep the cute ones for pets?

If you disagree with my "faulty" logic, then perhaps you can make me a list of jobs, or as you say... productive tasks, that will not be able to be filled by artificial intelligence?

Worthless eaters? Isn't that the goal of life? If not, you better be working a slave wage or volunteer, because "worthless eater" is somehow a crime.

But to answer you, artistic work and human touch are less likely to be replaced by robots. Not impossible, just less immediate. Some tasks are more repetitive and replaceable than others.

 

[moostraks]

Before invention of binoculars, you can expect privacy when you are outdoors and see nobody around you.
Before invention of radios and recorders, you can expect that only the people in your sight can hear you.
Before invention of metal detectors, you can expect to carry metal weapons on your body without being detected, unless you were patted down.



Possibly. As the path from buying to storing your book may have multiple opportunities of a spy.



Yes. Because you cannot expect everybody around you to either not have cameras or not remember and tell others what you did. And if it's outdoors, your privacy is almost automatically gone.



It just does 99% of the time.



Oh, I heard this one, just like the vaccuum cleaner, it doesn't "save time" it just "increases expectations", this is not untrue. Our expectations change, but facts are, dishwashers and vacuum cleaners get the same job done faster, or more job done in the same period of time.



If your parents are not using the washer, they are not wasting electricity or water on it, they can probably sell it for a few bucks.

You are not obligated to answer the phone, imagine the day you need it and don't have it.



So magicjack is good or bad? It's a new option no less, isn't it?

Imaginary:ADJECTIVE
1. in mind: existing only in the mind, not in reality
2. relating to imaginary number]s: relating to or containing imaginary numbers, or being the coefficient of the imaginary part in a complex number.
See also imaginary numbercomplex number

So I did not ever truly have any privacy? Not true imo...And the invasive technology is making it almost impossible to have privacy anywhere. The more the toys are made for people with a power/ control mindset the more they feel the need to use it upon unsuspecting others like perverse voyeurs. My home is my castle and I am entitled to the right of quiet enjoyment. I extend that view to my person and feel the extent to which the invasive technology is becoming mainstreamed is abusing the public right of ways so that one is now told that they should expect to be tracked or remain at home.

Technology may be 99% timesaver and convenience for you because that is how you view it, I do not with many items, therefore it is not/does not for me. You pay for all the toys which costs time and energy elsewhere. When they break you pay or work and pay to fix them. It is a lifestyle choice. Vacuum? I would rather get rid of the carpet and sweep and mop for example. The cost of vacuums in my family has exceeded $800 in the past 10 years. That is money worked for at a job to have a convenience of the vacuum cleaner. My home is over 100 years old and has never had a dishwasher to my knowledge unless it was a roll around model that has long since disappeared. I do not have to pre rinse and scrub so that I can dry my dishwasher dishes. I do not have to soak them because something that failed to be removed has hardened to a concrete consistency and then rewash them. They are done by hand correctly the first time. And there are no repair costs to be incurred.

If the parents wanted to have a huge hole to fix then they coould sell the dishwasher and deal with the aggravation of its removal or they can use some sense as they have and make it a storage cabinet. Their way works for them. Again different strokes and not everyone feels the need to lose a few bucks just to change an unnecessary item.

Magic jack is an unnecessary item foisted upon me by a society that demands I provide a contact number. So, I oblige and see it as a means of moving backwards as it works all on its little own time and I don't interact with it, and it costs me a fraction of what the monthly services were before when I was on TWC phone service. I have the ringer set so that it goes into voicemail and the other party feels satisfied it can contact while I no longer have my family life disrupted by nuisance calls. If I had my way it would be no phone service but just like any invasive technology that gains broad appeal people treat you as if you are worthy of suspicion because you don't want to partake in it. Much the same way we are now getting demands for additional contact numbers and received stares for not giving cell phone numbers. Strangers and businesses feel entitled because people willingly give them an inch and they want to take a mile.

Need the phone? Why? I can do well without one. There is no emergency in my location where a phone would be better than using my own means of transportation. You sound like the cable company that seems aghast that people could do something without a cable subscription. Why what will you do without cable? Uhhh...read???? Actually conversation that was had with a cable company.

 

[angelatc]

The new-age Zeitgeist thinking is very troubling! We are one to two generations away from people being raise to not care one iota for humanity.

Personally, I'm about 10 minutes from it.

 

[Nickels]

Imaginary:ADJECTIVE
1. in mind: existing only in the mind, not in reality
2. relating to imaginary number]s: relating to or containing imaginary numbers, or being the coefficient of the imaginary part in a complex number.
See also imaginary numbercomplex number

So I did not ever truly have any privacy?

You don't understand. Privacy is relative and based on expectations.

Not true imo...And the invasive technology is making it almost impossible to have privacy anywhere.

Ok, so what was your question?

The more the toys are made for people with a power/ control mindset the more they feel the need to use it upon unsuspecting others like perverse voyeurs. My home is my castle and I am entitled to the right of quiet enjoyment.

Privacy is not quiet enjoyment. Quiet enjoyment pertains to disruption.

I extend that view to my person

You got it backwards. Your house is the extension of you, not vice versa.

and feel the extent to which the invasive technology is becoming mainstreamed is abusing the public right of ways so that one is now told that they should expect to be tracked or remain at home.

Yes, because you cannot stop a person from using technology.

Technology may be 99% timesaver and convenience for you because that is how you view it, I do not with many items, therefore it is not/does not for me.

You are free to not use them.

You pay for all the toys which costs time and energy elsewhere. When they break you pay or work and pay to fix them. It is a lifestyle choice. Vacuum? I would rather get rid of the carpet and sweep and mop for example.

I pay for what is worth it to me, what the hell is your point?

The cost of vacuums in my family has exceeded $800 in the past 10 years.

Just the machine ?or including electicity? You must have a big house or a nice vaccum, because I used the same $100 vacuum for 11 years.

That is money worked for at a job to have a convenience of the vacuum cleaner.

Ok, so don't have it. What is your complaint?

My home is over 100 years old and has never had a dishwasher to my knowledge unless it was a roll around model that has long since disappeared. I do not have to pre rinse and scrub so that I can dry my dishwasher dishes. I do not have to soak them because something that failed to be removed has hardened to a concrete consistency and then rewash them. They are done by hand correctly the first time. And there are no repair costs to be incurred.

you can get a job being a dishwasher then.

If the parents wanted to have a huge hole to fix then they coould sell the dishwasher and deal with the aggravation of its removal or they can use some sense as they have and make it a storage cabinet. Their way works for them. Again different strokes and not everyone feels the need to lose a few bucks just to change an unnecessary item.

Magic jack is an unnecessary item foisted upon me by a society that demands I provide a contact number.

Why can't you give them a fake number? Why do you need to do business with them?

So, I oblige and see it as a means of moving backwards as it works all on its little own time and I don't interact with it, and it costs me a fraction of what the monthly services were before when I was on TWC phone service. I have the ringer set so that it goes into voicemail and the other party feels satisfied it can contact while I no longer have my family life disrupted by nuisance calls. If I had my way it would be no phone service but just like any invasive technology that gains broad appeal people treat you as if you are worthy of suspicion because you don't want to partake in it.

Explain to me, why you cannot have your way. Who is forcing you to have a phone in a way that is not worth it? Whoever demands you provide a phone number, can you refuse to do business with them?

Much the same way we are now getting demands for additional contact numbers and received stares for not giving cell phone numbers. Strangers and businesses feel entitled because people willingly give them an inch and they want to take a mile.

So you don't want them to have the convenience, I get it now. You enjoy being left alone.

Need the phone? Why? I can do well without one. There is no emergency in my location where a phone would be better than using my own means of transportation.

Ok, good for you. Then don't have one. I hope your car never breaks down or needs a towing, don't go knocking on your neighbor's door to borrow their phone there! Won't kill you, but don't tell me that's not convenience.

You sound like the cable company that seems aghast that people could do something without a cable subscription. Why what will you do without cable? Uhhh...read???? Actually conversation that was had with a cable company.

Neither phone nor cable are necessities. I recognize that. I just never heard somebody complain about a phone like this, if you can live without it, dont have one. I dont think it would be very convenient for me to live without my phone, so I have one and it's worth it for me. I can live fine without cable, some even say they can live without electricity.

 

[angelatc]

I'm not really sure what you're talking about with the GameCube thing. If 51% of the people like something, and 49% don't, that doesn't mean the stores go with the 51% because it is more profitable. They usually try to satisfy both. That isn't democracy. Democracy doesn't accomodate, it enforces the rule of the simple majority.

That's what I'm saying. But in the case of the GameCube, there's not enough demand to create a profitable market. At that point, I could either bitch that life wasn't fair, or I could buy a Wii. I eventually went with the latter.

 

[specsaregood]

That's what I'm saying. But in the case of the GameCube, there's not enough demand to create a profitable market. At that point, I could either bitch that life wasn't fair, or I could buy a Wii. I eventually went with the latter.

You ever played Super Mario "The Lost Levels"? Its available for download in their online store thing. Quite possibly the most difficult video game ever created, is awesome. they didn't sell it in the US because it was deemed too difficult.

 

[Wesker1982]

"Destroyed a thousand times, it has risen a thousand times out of its own ashes as hardy and vigorous as ever..."

The Curse of Machinery

 

[Nickels]

Magic jack is an unnecessary item foisted upon me by a society that demands I provide a contact number. So, I oblige and see it as a means of moving backwards as it works all on its little own time and I don't interact with it, and it costs me a fraction of what the monthly services were before when I was on TWC phone service. I have the ringer set so that it goes into voicemail and the other party feels satisfied it can contact while I no longer have my family life disrupted by nuisance calls. If I had my way it would be no phone service but just like any invasive technology that gains broad appeal people treat you as if you are worthy of suspicion because you don't want to partake in it. Much the same way we are now getting demands for additional contact numbers and received stares for not giving cell phone numbers. Strangers and businesses feel entitled because people willingly give them an inch and they want to take a mile.

Need the phone? Why? I can do well without one. There is no emergency in my location where a phone would be better than using my own means of transportation. You sound like the cable company that seems aghast that people could do something without a cable subscription. Why what will you do without cable? Uhhh...read???? Actually conversation that was had with a cable company.

did you forget that you only claim you don't need a phone because you have something called a car, and a car costs more than a phone?
Did you forget that people had phones before they had cars?
did you forget that magic jack is an advanced phone, just as answering machines are, that allow you to answer as you please, and avoid as you please?
If you can outrun a phone call on foot, more power to you, I still don't see how a phone has NOT made your life more convenient.
Whatever other technology you want to complain about, always remember you almost always have a choice to not use them, so the fact it's an additional option is itself convenience. Not knowing how to use something to your advantage is not the same as blaming them for causing you inconvenience.

 

[moostraks]

You don't understand. Privacy is relative and based on expectations.



Ok, so what was your question?



Privacy is not quiet enjoyment. Quiet enjoyment pertains to disruption.



You got it backwards. Your house is the extension of you, not vice versa.



Yes, because you cannot stop a person from using technology.



You are free to not use them.



I pay for what is worth it to me, what the hell is your point?



Just the machine ?or including electicity? You must have a big house or a nice vaccum, because I used the same $100 vacuum for 11 years.



Ok, so don't have it. What is your complaint?



you can get a job being a dishwasher then.




Why can't you give them a fake number? Why do you need to do business with them?



Explain to me, why you cannot have your way. Who is forcing you to have a phone in a way that is not worth it? Whoever demands you provide a phone number, can you refuse to do business with them?



So you don't want them to have the convenience, I get it now. You enjoy being left alone.



Ok, good for you. Then don't have one. I hope your car never breaks down or needs a towing, don't go knocking on your neighbor's door to borrow their phone there! Won't kill you, but don't tell me that's not convenience.



Neither phone nor cable are necessities. I recognize that. I just never heard somebody complain about a phone like this, if you can live without it, dont have one. I dont think it would be very convenient for me to live without my phone, so I have one and it's worth it for me. I can live fine without cable, some even say they can live without electricity.

1-I detest when people parse posts.
2-I detest when people redefine words
3-privacy specifically:
freedom from attention of others: freedom from the observation, intrusion, or attention of others http://www.bing.com/Dictionary/search?q=define+privacy&qpvt=define+privacy&FORM=DTPDIA
3-my quiet enjoyment involves not being spied on by people who feel entitled to invade my "space" and peep or listen in on my goings on. I am not at peace when I am on eggshells. Much the same way guests should be given a bed that is just hard enough to remind them to go home so the homeowner can have the privacy of their household returned in a timely fashion.
3-I have a job-parent, teacher, homemaker which involves multifarious sub categories. So thanks for tlling me to become a dishwasher. Weren't you they same poster that suggested a job to someone else? It is quite presumptious and an ignorant argument to state that because one disagrees with you they should seek employment as <insert job here>
4-My question? You are parsing poorly
5-Complaint? Try observation that your position does not apply that 99% of technology is an improvement on the human condition.
6-Fake phone number for pediatrician would get a visit from social services. they request a number and use it to give courtesy calls for appointments. And no you cannot get away with not giving a contact number with various services. Many services demand a working contact number to which foisting it upon family members is unfair. I don't have to explain to you which services, but it was necessary.
7-I live in town and can walk to most places necessary. A broke down car will be fixed at home. A tow truck can be called from the payphone on the square if that off chance in a million were necessary.
8-Social services will make a case against folks based upon this presumed "need" for certain modern conveniences. All are not free to chose to run their household as they see fit....

 

[moostraks]

did you forget that you only claim you don't need a phone because you have something called a car, and a car costs more than a phone?
Did you forget that people had phones before they had cars?
did you forget that magic jack is an advanced phone, just as answering machines are, that allow you to answer as you please, and avoid as you please?
If you can outrun a phone call on foot, more power to you, I still don't see how a phone has NOT made your life more convenient.
Whatever other technology you want to complain about, always remember you almost always have a choice to not use them, so the fact it's an additional option is itself convenience. Not knowing how to use something to your advantage is not the same as blaming them for causing you inconvenience.

I didn't forget anything. I stated all advancements are not a positive improvement.Most are not balanced against the cost in intial outgo, repair, and loss of privacy/peacefulness. I prefer my bicycle to the car, less maintenance, but real hassle when the whole family goes somewhere. So the car, like the magicjack is a handy tool. If my car starts to spy on me then I will be rid of it for most of what it is used for now, which is short intown uses. See the thread here: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...Could-Be-Tracked-By-GPS-Taxed-Per-Mile-Driven You are the one making a 99% argument. Re the phone:You can't see it because you like the phone. I see it has cost me $1440 for the past 4 years for an instrument that I do not want and do not like to answer. I have now made that about $150 option for 6 or 7 years I don't recall which, and don't raise eyebrows with folks that think they are entitled to ring me up at their convenience.

In a free world the option would exist. We do not live in a free world. Something as petty as having cable can and has been used in family court to try to prove the unfitness of a family that dearly loves their children. Dissenters are not tolerated, especially when they have children. How many laws have you broken today for which a nosey neighbor might want to rid the neighborhood of you? Trust me, you might think you have nothing to fear, but rare is the person who hasn't broken some law no matter how unintentional for which their life can be made miserable by pissing off the wrong person. I m the type that has learned not to give any more ammo to those who might have ulterior motives. Learned it the hard way....