A Romney win will be a crippling blow to the liberty movement

There is a solution for cynicism - run for office and directly have an effect on the process. In four years from now, any one of us can be sitting on our state committee if we work hard enough. AJ Spiker did so in Iowa and there are others across the country having a positive impact - they should be role models for all those who seriously want to have an influence in the political process.
Here in my county in MO, there is a majority of liberty lovers on the GOP committee now, and we've won offices in the state senatorial and congressional district committees. Two years from now, things will be looking even better in this county. The GOP committee is sponsoring educational events for the public every other month. We started with a focus on Agenda 21. Today at a Todd Akin event here in town, he mentioned getting US out of the UN, and everyone in the room applauded and cheered loudly. Oh, it's going to be a fun two years!
 
I haven't read this whole thread, so I don't know if this has been mentioned already, but Ron Paul has said that if Romney wins, he would run against him in 2016.

Anyhow, since it's going to be close, it is really up to who counts the votes, isn't it. Which "team" spends the most money on hacking the machines is the winner.
Citation?
 
- Reaffirms the GOP establishment's belief that they can win without us.

- Confirms the fact that the Ron Paul vote/wing of the party is insignificant, at least at this stage.

- Guarantees a liberty Republican running for POTUS would have to wait until 2020 - and even then it's likely moderate voters will be looking for "change" once again and would look to the democrats like in 2008.

- The crash will happen under the Romney administration and the free market (and Republicans) will be blamed ushering in grand socialism.

...and it's all seeming like a real possibility Romney will win now. Thoughts?

I predict the Ron Paul movement will collapse when Rand Paul takes over from Ron. Rand sold out to the neocons when he announced his support for Mitt Romney. I will drop my support for this movement if he takes over.
 
I predict the Ron Paul movement will collapse when Rand Paul takes over from Ron. Rand sold out to the neocons when he announced his support for Mitt Romney. I will drop my support for this movement if he takes over.

The Liberty Movement is not going anywhere. It is worldwide. Ron Paul exposed the truth in, "Gold, Peace, and Prosperity" Those of us who have read Ron Paul's works are not able to unlearn what he taught us. We'll go on without you if necessary.
 
I predict the Ron Paul movement will collapse when Rand Paul takes over from Ron. Rand sold out to the neocons when he announced his support for Mitt Romney. I will drop my support for this movement if he takes over.

Utter foolishness. Nearly every single elected GOP official and candidate from the conservative/libertarian wing of the party is publicly supporting the nominee. If you cannot deal with the reality of politics then perhaps supermario21 is right - the LP might be a better place for you.
 
Jeb is done. He's blasted the tea party as extremists. And has an immigration stance much worse than Rick Perry. There isn't a big enough eraser on the planet. Plus, his last name is Bush.

If Romney loses, I think Rubio/Bush - and only one of them will run - and Martinez will be overwhelming favorites for 2016. The after-election talk will be how the GOP can't win in the future without making major inroads with latinos (and that's probably true, the demographics kleep getting tougher every cycle) and need some one with immigration reform cred and ideally some sort of personal connection to Hispanics. And there will be lots of pressure to go the electable route, primary voters easily get tired of seeing the other guys winning.
 
If Romney loses, I think Rubio/Bush - and only one of them will run - and Martinez will be overwhelming favorites for 2016. The after-election talk will be how the GOP can't win in the future without making major inroads with latinos (and that's probably true, the demographics kleep getting tougher every cycle) and need some one with immigration reform cred and ideally some sort of personal connection to Hispanics. And there will be lots of pressure to go the electable route, primary voters easily get tired of seeing the other guys winning.

Agreed. I think Rand needs 8 years to raise his national profile in order to become a serious contender to the nomination. And if some other person was to arise as a potential nominee from this wing, they will need that much time or longer.
 
I predict the Ron Paul movement will collapse when Rand Paul takes over from Ron. Rand sold out to the neocons when he announced his support for Mitt Romney. I will drop my support for this movement if he takes over.

This herd of cats doesn't really need a figurehead. Ron Paul wasn't even a particularly good one, from a charisma point of view, yet the movement grew from nothing. And you can't even say it grew under his leadership--he admitted himself that, for all that the conventional thinkers called him our leader, he could barely keep up with us.

Agreed. I think Rand needs 8 years to raise his national profile in order to become a serious contender to the nomination. And if some other person was to arise as a potential nominee from this wing, they will need that much time or longer.

Obama didn't. I give Rand more credit than Obama.
 
Let's face it: if we're a one person movement, then we don't deserve to transform America. Ron does everything that doesn't require politicians, get people to come see him, educate themselves on the issues, etc. Someone needs to play the politics. Believe it or not, no movement that is successful relies on an extremely narrow base that many of you want. Rand is the guy to do that coalition building for us, and until he actually betrays the movement with votes, is not worth ditching.
 
Romney won't win so we will have 4 years to get prepared for Rand. If you wont support Rand that is your choice, I dont see anyone else that can carry this movement as much as Rand could. His voting record is great, not perfect but good enough for me.
 
Romney won't win so we will have 4 years to get prepared for Rand. If you wont support Rand that is your choice, I dont see anyone else that can carry this movement as much as Rand could. His voting record is great, not perfect but good enough for me.

I wish I had the same confidence you do that Romney won't win. It's starting to look like he might.
 
- Reaffirms the GOP establishment's belief that they can win without us.

- Confirms the fact that the Ron Paul vote/wing of the party is insignificant, at least at this stage.

- Guarantees a liberty Republican running for POTUS would have to wait until 2020 - and even then it's likely moderate voters will be looking for "change" once again and would look to the democrats like in 2008.

- The crash will happen under the Romney administration and the free market (and Republicans) will be blamed ushering in grand socialism.

...and it's all seeming like a real possibility Romney will win now. Thoughts?

I think you're overstating the blame on the free market. Nobody in their right mind will think Romney is free market in any way.
 
I think you're overstating the blame on the free market. Nobody in their right mind will think Romney is free market in any way.

Agreed. Romney's biggest selling point is that he is not Obama. A potted plant would be polling as well as Romney is. I just heard on the news that nationally, Romney is up 20% over Obama with Independents. That is a 28 point swing from 08 for Obama. Do they love Romney - hell no, they have just realized that Obama was a huge mistake.
 
And merrily we skip from one huge mistake to another huge mistake. Just like four years ago. And twelve years ago...

All the more reason that the next candidate from this wing of the party that runs for the nomination has the ability to sell the message to the majority of voters.
 
All the more reason that the next candidate from this wing of the party that runs for the nomination has the ability to sell the message to the majority of voters.

And that doesn't just mean picking a Great Communicator, if we can find one. That means four more years of hard work undoing the brainwashing to pave the way for that candidate.

Strangely enough, it seems the message is easier to sell, at least in regards to federal candidates, to liberals than to self-styled conservatives. For that you can thank Public Enemy Number One--Rupert Murdoch. We have got to give Faux the serious discrediting they so richly deserve...

Yeah, yeah. He makes the kind of noises that allows him to win a GOP primary, therefore he's easy to demonize. But his policies are Ron Paul's policies, and his honesty is Ron Paul's honesty. So, maybe it's time liberals learned who their friends are, no?

Look, we've been through this, and I thought the answer was obvious. The best thing for liberals--really, the best possible thing--is libertarians in Washington and your Dems or Greens or whoever down at the state capital. This is the best thing. Really.

If health care and regulation and all of that great stuff is handled on as local a level as possible, no libertarian will violate the Ninth and Tenth Amendments by interfering, and the corporations cannot easily distort the whole thing to their ends because to do it would require buying fifty state (and more than half a dozen territorial) legislatures. That's not easy. Washington, on the other hand, is easy. One stop shopping.

One stop shopping. There's your corporatism in a nutshell. Go to Washington and do one stop shopping. Just like that. Fill the legal code down in Washington and every mom and pop down at the farmer's market needs the same fourteen lawyers to do business that Monsanto needs to do business. Let the state legislatures handle it, and (depending on the state) mom and pop need one lawyer, while Monsanto needs at least fifty. One stop shopping.

Keeping Washington honest sounds good in theory. Didn't work. But if you keep Washington small, you don't have to convince twenty million voters nationwide that your local sewers are more important than gay marriage, abortion, and their own local sewers combined. You can just throw out the city council--and it doesn't take twenty million voters to do that.

"I do verily believe that..a single, consolidated government would become the most corrupt government on the earth." -- Thomas Jefferson

How much proof do we need that the man was absolutely right before we pull our heads out and believe him?



No offense, but the Ninth and Tenth Amendments are a better compromise, and a better idea. They really are. We might not live in your liberal state after we work together to get libertarians in office, but no Constitutionalist worth his salt will stand in your way if the majority of the voters in your state want to experiment with socialism.

Hell, with a little healthy competition between the states, you might just make it work halfway well. Europe did, before they had a stupid attack and consolidated their efforts. Now it has all gone to hell...

Please, tell me how I'm wrong about this.

We could get a real conservative elected so easily--if only we could get him or her the nomination. I'm beginning to wonder if the Republican Party isn't the worst place for a true conservative to be.
 
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And that doesn't just mean picking a Great Communicator, if we can find one. That means four more years of hard work undoing the brainwashing to pave the way for that candidate.

Right we need to have people in place at the county and state level to support the candidate of choice, particularly in the early states. Though, all indications from where I sit, looks like we will have eight years to pave the way. Personally, I see that as a plus. I am very high on Rand, and I think 8 years from now, he very well could be the Majority Leader coming out of the gate in 2020 with endorsements from sitting Senators and/or Governors from IA, NH, SC and FL (assuming those are still the first 4).
 
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