A Question for the Atheists in the Crowd

[Leroy_Jenkems]

Have you read any works of Joseph Campbell?

As a person who's becoming increasingly distraught with organized religion (I believe more everyday that connecting with The Transcendent i.e. "God" is certainly a personal endeavour), I'd like to know your thoughts on Deism, the Founding Fathers' spiritual beliefs, and how you view "everything".

 

[Kludge]

Have you read any works of Joseph Campbell?

No.

As a person who's becoming increasingly distraught with organized religion (I believe more everyday that connecting with The Transcendent i.e. "God" is certainly a personal endeavour), I'd like to know your thoughts on Deism, the Founding Fathers' spiritual beliefs, and how you view "everything".

I don't believe in God as there is no proof as to his existence. While there is not any evidence to support evolution (where did the universe come from?), nothing explains where God came from. It's expecting me to believe that a PERFECT divine entity just existed since time started and felt lonely? A perfect entitity wouldn't feel lonely nor would he create a flood and later declare it a mistake.


Everything is everything. It exists in my world. For example, I know a is a. It is not b. I intend to enjoy and experience life as much as possible before death.

 

[yongrel]

I've read Campbell's The Power of Myth.

Truth be told, I didn't understand a lot of it because I was reading it at the same time as I was reading the fourth Harry Potter book. I sometimes get confused and think that Campbell was writing about wizardry education.

I have a great deal of respect for Deism, largely for the weight it puts on rational thought. I can talk about science of any sort comfortably with a Deist, which is not something I can say about all Chrisitians. I place a very high value on science, and when someone throws that away in favour of their pet religious beliefs, I grow frustrated.

Deism gets points in my book for being reasonable.

I an atheist because I saw no proof of God. I'm agnostic in that I admit that I have no idea whether or not there is a God, but I am an atheist in that I believe that none of the known and unknown religions are correct. There is no empirical evidence for, and a lot against, the existence of supreme beings of the nature concieved by man. Therefor, I do not believe there is a supreme being.

 

[Leroy_Jenkems]

I can most certainly agree with your disbelief in some of the more "animated" tales in the Bible - Jonah being swallowed by a whale, Noah's Ark, burning bushes, etc, etc.

A prime tenet of Campbell's work is that he compared many world religions and showed the correlations amongst them - the rites of war, of spiritual tests placed upon followers, the purported supernatural occurrences, so on and so forth.


You may recall in the Power of Myth where Campbell stated that the Founders (and Thomas Paine before them) rejected the idea of the Fall in the Garden of Eden, of original sin, so as to justify that man was not cut off from the mind of God, that the quest of reason, in the human mind's capacity, was the way to connect with what could be called "God".

I'm not trying to advocate one side (belief in God, in whatever capacity) or the other (belief in no God or Gods), it's simply that atheists tend to make more sense to me personally than many Christians (encounters with Huckabee supporters have strongly reinforced this notion) as of lately.

Just interested in your rationale.

 

[Abundantjoy]

Proof Vs. Faith

In regards to whether there is a God who created all things.
First off...He was not created, He has always existed...Take for instance oxygen and wind...you can see neither, but they do exist.

Take the word "Faith," its definition is so simple:

• belief that is not based on proof.
• the trust in God and in His promises as made through Christ and the Scriptures by which humans are justified or saved.
• confidence or trust in a person or thing

The word "belief," is also one that goes with faith,:

Confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof.

Synonyms: Assurance. Belief, certainty, conviction refer to acceptance of, or confidence in, an alleged fact or body of facts as true or right without positive knowledge or proof.

How about the word "Trust"?

• Confident expectation of something; hope.
• To rely upon or place confidence in someone or something.
• confident expectation of something; hope.

We know through just historical evidence that the bible holds many truths. Point to Ponder: Just because we never met any of the witnesses in its pages doesn't cancel out that they did not exist right?

For example, we know about famous people like George Washington and the things that happened during his time, but we never actually met him. Does that mean he did not exist? That the writers of history were not to be believed?

Take just these scriptures from the bible and ponder them, if you will.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.....and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us" (John 1:1, 14) The Bible says that Jesus is God in flesh.

A question many ask, can be explained.
If Jesus is God, then who did He pray to?

This is a very common question and the answer is found in understanding the "Trinity" and the incarnation of Jesus.
The Trinity is the doctrine that there is only one God in all existence. This one God exists as three persons: The Father, The Son, and the Holy Spirit. They are not three gods, but one God. Each is a separate person, yet each of them is, in essence, divine in nature.
A close analogy of the Trinity can be found by looking at the concept of time. Time is past, present, and future. There are three "aspects" or "parts" of time. This does not mean that there are three "times," but only one. Each is separate, in a sense, yet each shares the same nature, or essence. In a similar way, the Trinity is three separate persons who share the same nature.

The Incarnation

The doctrine of the incarnation in Christian teaching is that Jesus, who is the second person of the Trinity, added to himself human nature and became a man.
"For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form" (Col. 2:9)

Jesus, therefore, has two natures. He is both God and man.
Jesus is completely human, but He also has a divine nature.


Jesus is God in human flesh. He is not half God and half man. He is fully divine and fully man. That is, Jesus has two distinct natures: divine and human. Jesus is the Word who was God and was with God and was made flesh, (John 1:1,14). This means that in the single person of Jesus is both a human and divine nature. The divine nature was not changed. It was not altered. He is not merely a man who "had God within Him" nor is he a man who "manifested the God principle." He is God, second person of the Trinity. "The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word," (Heb. 1:3, NIV). Jesus' two natures are not "mixed together," nor are they combined into a new God-man nature. They are separate yet act as a unit in the one person of Jesus. This is called the Hypostatic Union.

The Communicatio Idiomatum

A doctrine that is related to the Hypostatic Union is the communicatio idiomatum (Latin for "communication of properties"). It is the teaching that the attributes of both the divine and human natures are ascribed to the one person of Jesus. This means that the man Jesus could lay claim to the glory He had with the Father before the world was made (John 17:5), claim that He descended from heaven, (John 3:13), and also claim omnipresence, (Matt. 28:20). All of these are divine qualities that are laid claim to by Jesus; therefore, the attributes of the divine properties were claimed by the person of Jesus.

The Bible is about Jesus (John 5:39). The prophets prophesied about Him (Acts 10:43). The Father bore witness of Him (John 5:37; 8:18). The Holy Spirit bore witness of Him (John 15:26). The works Jesus did bore witness of Him (John 5:36; 10:25). The multitudes bore witness of Him (John 12:17). And, Jesus bore witness of Himself (John 14:6; 18:6).
Other verses to consider when examining His deity are John 10:30-33; 20:28; Col. 2:9; Phil. 2:5-8; Heb. 1:6-8; and 2 Pet. 1:1.
1 Tim. 2:5 says, "For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."

Jesus is our advocate with the Father (1 John 2:1). He is our Savior (Titus 2:13). He is our Lord (Rom. 10:9-10). He is Jesus.
He will return soon for those who love Him and the message that He has given through His Word. Will you be ready?

You can not loose a thing by putting your faith to work and trusting in Jesus.
If it is not true, you loose "nothing."

However, if what I have said is true, and you choose to not believe the message...You will be left to suffer Gods wrath. God never lies, and He always keeps His promises. His Word is forever true.

Jesus said " John 16:9
The world’s sin is that it refuses to believe in me.

John 16:28
Yes, I came from the Father into the world, and now I will leave the world and return to the Father.”

John 17:21
I pray that they will all be one, just as you and I are one—as you are in me, Father, and I am in you. And may they be in us so that the world will believe you sent me.

Jesus (the man) speaking to His Father about those who are saved... John 17:23
I am in them and you are in me. May they experience such perfect unity that the world will know that you sent me and that you love them as much as you love me.

John 17:24
Father, I want these whom you have given me to be with me where I am. Then they can see all the glory you gave me because you loved me even before the world began!
_________________________________________________________________
Romans 1:20
For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see his invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse for not knowing God.

Romans 12:2
Don’t copy the behavior and customs of this world, but let God transform you into a new person by changing the way you think. Then you will learn to know God’s will for you, which is good and pleasing and perfect.

1 Corinthians 1:20
So where does this leave the philosophers, the scholars, and the world’s brilliant debaters? God has made the wisdom of this world look foolish.

1 Corinthians 1:21
Since God in his wisdom saw to it that the world would never know him through human wisdom, he has used our foolish preaching to save those who believe.

2 Corinthians 5:19 (Whole Chapter)
For God was in Christ, reconciling the world to himself, no longer counting people’s sins against them. And he gave us this wonderful message of reconciliation.

Galatians 1:4
Jesus gave his life for our sins, just as God our Father planned, in order to rescue us from this evil world in which we live.

Colossians 1:16
For through Him (Jesus) God created everything in the heavenly realms and on earth. He made the things we can see and the things we can’t see—such as thrones, kingdoms, rulers, and authorities in the unseen world. Everything was created through him and for him.




1 John 2:17
And this world is fading away, along with everything that people crave. But anyone who does what pleases God will live forever.


So I hope that you all understand that all you need is faith and trust to believe that God came from heaven and lived in the flesh ( namely Jesus) He is perfect, (never sinned), and taught what man must do to be saved (to love God, and love others), He died for the worlds sins, and to those who believe in Him, He has given eternal life and a place in heaven someday.

Hebrews 13:14
For this world is not our permanent home; we are looking forward to a home yet to come.

Maranatha!

"America!"... Bless God...Love One Another!

 

[Kludge]

In regards to whether there is a God who created all things.
First off...He was not created, He has always existed...Take for instance oxygen and wind...you can see neither, but they do exist.

Take the word "Faith," its definition is so simple:

• belief that is not based on proof.
• the trust in God and in His promises as made through Christ and the Scriptures by which humans are justified or saved.
• confidence or trust in a person or thing

The word "belief," is also one that goes with faith,:

Confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof.

Synonyms: Assurance. Belief, certainty, conviction refer to acceptance of, or confidence in, an alleged fact or body of facts as true or right without positive knowledge or proof.

How about the word "Trust"?

• Confident expectation of something; hope.
• To rely upon or place confidence in someone or something.
• confident expectation of something; hope.

We know through just historical evidence that the bible holds many truths. Point to Ponder: Just because we never met any of the witnesses in its pages doesn't cancel out that they did not exist right?

For example, we know about famous people like George Washington and the things that happened during his time, but we never actually met him. Does that mean he did not exist? That the writers of history were not to be believed?

Take just these scriptures from the bible and ponder them, if you will.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.....and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us" (John 1:1, 14) The Bible says that Jesus is God in flesh.

A question many ask, can be explained.
If Jesus is God, then who did He pray to?

This is a very common question and the answer is found in understanding the "Trinity" and the incarnation of Jesus.
The Trinity is the doctrine that there is only one God in all existence. This one God exists as three persons: The Father, The Son, and the Holy Spirit. They are not three gods, but one God. Each is a separate person, yet each of them is, in essence, divine in nature.
A close analogy of the Trinity can be found by looking at the concept of time. Time is past, present, and future. There are three "aspects" or "parts" of time. This does not mean that there are three "times," but only one. Each is separate, in a sense, yet each shares the same nature, or essence. In a similar way, the Trinity is three separate persons who share the same nature.

The Incarnation

The doctrine of the incarnation in Christian teaching is that Jesus, who is the second person of the Trinity, added to himself human nature and became a man.
"For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form" (Col. 2:9)

Jesus, therefore, has two natures. He is both God and man.
Jesus is completely human, but He also has a divine nature.


Jesus is God in human flesh. He is not half God and half man. He is fully divine and fully man. That is, Jesus has two distinct natures: divine and human. Jesus is the Word who was God and was with God and was made flesh, (John 1:1,14). This means that in the single person of Jesus is both a human and divine nature. The divine nature was not changed. It was not altered. He is not merely a man who "had God within Him" nor is he a man who "manifested the God principle." He is God, second person of the Trinity. "The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word," (Heb. 1:3, NIV). Jesus' two natures are not "mixed together," nor are they combined into a new God-man nature. They are separate yet act as a unit in the one person of Jesus. This is called the Hypostatic Union.

The Communicatio Idiomatum

A doctrine that is related to the Hypostatic Union is the communicatio idiomatum (Latin for "communication of properties"). It is the teaching that the attributes of both the divine and human natures are ascribed to the one person of Jesus. This means that the man Jesus could lay claim to the glory He had with the Father before the world was made (John 17:5), claim that He descended from heaven, (John 3:13), and also claim omnipresence, (Matt. 28:20). All of these are divine qualities that are laid claim to by Jesus; therefore, the attributes of the divine properties were claimed by the person of Jesus.

The Bible is about Jesus (John 5:39). The prophets prophesied about Him (Acts 10:43). The Father bore witness of Him (John 5:37; 8:18). The Holy Spirit bore witness of Him (John 15:26). The works Jesus did bore witness of Him (John 5:36; 10:25). The multitudes bore witness of Him (John 12:17). And, Jesus bore witness of Himself (John 14:6; 18:6).
Other verses to consider when examining His deity are John 10:30-33; 20:28; Col. 2:9; Phil. 2:5-8; Heb. 1:6-8; and 2 Pet. 1:1.
1 Tim. 2:5 says, "For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."

Jesus is our advocate with the Father (1 John 2:1). He is our Savior (Titus 2:13). He is our Lord (Rom. 10:9-10). He is Jesus.
He will return soon for those who love Him and the message that He has given through His Word. Will you be ready?

You can not loose a thing by putting your faith to work and trusting in Jesus.
If it is not true, you loose "nothing."

However, if what I have said is true, and you choose to not believe the message...You will be left to suffer Gods wrath. God never lies, and He always keeps His promises. His Word is forever true.

Jesus said " John 16:9
The world’s sin is that it refuses to believe in me.

John 16:28
Yes, I came from the Father into the world, and now I will leave the world and return to the Father.”

John 17:21
I pray that they will all be one, just as you and I are one—as you are in me, Father, and I am in you. And may they be in us so that the world will believe you sent me.

Jesus (the man) speaking to His Father about those who are saved... John 17:23
I am in them and you are in me. May they experience such perfect unity that the world will know that you sent me and that you love them as much as you love me.

John 17:24
Father, I want these whom you have given me to be with me where I am. Then they can see all the glory you gave me because you loved me even before the world began!
_________________________________________________________________
Romans 1:20
For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see his invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse for not knowing God.

Romans 12:2
Don’t copy the behavior and customs of this world, but let God transform you into a new person by changing the way you think. Then you will learn to know God’s will for you, which is good and pleasing and perfect.

1 Corinthians 1:20
So where does this leave the philosophers, the scholars, and the world’s brilliant debaters? God has made the wisdom of this world look foolish.

1 Corinthians 1:21
Since God in his wisdom saw to it that the world would never know him through human wisdom, he has used our foolish preaching to save those who believe.

2 Corinthians 5:19 (Whole Chapter)
For God was in Christ, reconciling the world to himself, no longer counting people’s sins against them. And he gave us this wonderful message of reconciliation.

Galatians 1:4
Jesus gave his life for our sins, just as God our Father planned, in order to rescue us from this evil world in which we live.

Colossians 1:16
For through Him (Jesus) God created everything in the heavenly realms and on earth. He made the things we can see and the things we can’t see—such as thrones, kingdoms, rulers, and authorities in the unseen world. Everything was created through him and for him.




1 John 2:17
And this world is fading away, along with everything that people crave. But anyone who does what pleases God will live forever.


So I hope that you all understand that all you need is faith and trust to believe that God came from heaven and lived in the flesh ( namely Jesus) He is perfect, (never sinned), and taught what man must do to be saved (to love God, and love others), He died for the worlds sins, and to those who believe in Him, He has given eternal life and a place in heaven someday.

Hebrews 13:14
For this world is not our permanent home; we are looking forward to a home yet to come.

Maranatha!

"America!"... Bless God...Love One Another!

Okay. No one's allowed to post until I write this post in tomorrow night! I really want to post on it, but it's going to take at least 30-50 mins and I'm REALLY tired.

 

[sophocles07]

Have you read any works of Joseph Campbell?

Yes. I think he’s one of the best authors I’ve read on the topic of religion. He understood that religion—or some form of social ritual—is important to a healthy psychological condition (both for individuals and the community at large), even if the religion is not “true” literally.

One quote I very much like:

“Wherever the poetry of myth is interpreted as biography, history, or science, it is killed.”

I think, also, that it is a mistake when atheists/agnostics (I’m an agnostic) call for an end to “myth” (and, implicitly, poetry and art) in favor of only reason. Though I don’t believe in the transcendental in the sense that a Christian does, I still think that the type of function myth used to play in the world has to be replaced with something—there must be an outlet for psychological, unconscious projection. What form this will take, I don’t know; it definitely can’t be the decayed forms of Christ and Mary, Apollo and the Pleiades.

As a person who's becoming increasingly distraught with organized religion (I believe more everyday that connecting with The Transcendent i.e. "God" is certainly a personal endeavour), I'd like to know your thoughts on Deism, the Founding Fathers' spiritual beliefs, and how you view "everything".

I’m not going into all this. There’s a pretty long thread on this in “Civil Liberties” section, which doesn’t really involve all of my ideas, but gives a fairly good picture.

In that thread you’ll find also two literal-Theocrats who are fucking insane; I spend most of my time there arguing over even the basics of why slavery and theocracy are wrong, so it doesn’t get very far.

A question many ask, can be explained.
If Jesus is God, then who did He pray to?

Who the fuck asks this?

Okay. No one's allowed to post until I write this post in tomorrow night! I really want to post on it, but it's going to take at least 30-50 mins and I'm REALLY tired.

I’ll post but I’m not replying to above Christian bullshit, I’m growing weary of arguing with complete morons over these dead ideas.

 

[MalcolmGandi]

I am a Deist. Amadeus Amadeus.

 

[phixion]

Have you read any works of Joseph Campbell?

As a person who's becoming increasingly distraught with organized religion (I believe more everyday that connecting with The Transcendent i.e. "God" is certainly a personal endeavour), I'd like to know your thoughts on Deism, the Founding Fathers' spiritual beliefs, and how you view "everything".

In my observation of others (including a personal friend of mine) exiting religion is difficult once raised heavily in it - you may look to still believe in some sort of God, or thing, or something to believe in, just to fill the gaping void, but it's unlikely in my opinion you will ever let go entirely due to the hard-wired connections in your brain chemistry made early on in your life...

The faith-based connections and rationale/reason-bypass (I don't mean offense by the way) have been made during the early phase of development and I would be suprised if anyone raised heavy in religion ever shakes them off despite turning on their religion or even hating it. They would simply vill the void with something else.

I would question if by you reading Joseph Campbells writings is your way of villing the void as you become more distraught with religion and try to transform your faith in to something else. Treating the symptoms but not the cause so to speak.

You still want to believe... just in may be something else.

That's why I believe it's pretty much impossible for anyone to just cut off from faith-based beliefs entirely unless they were never exposed to or raised in faith based religions in the first place, in which case there's no need (for most) to believe in anything faith-based nor read anything by Joseph Campbell.

Pete

 

[nullvalu]

I am agnostic. I personally believe that an Atheist is just as sad as a Christian, as sad as a Jew, as sad as a believer in any other human religion which claims to know more than other humans based on faith alone.

I believe in the possibility of a creator, but also believe there's a possibility there is no "creator" or supreme being.

As far as religion, I'll quote a brilliant founding father:

"All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit"

"Each of these churches shows certain books, which they call revelation, or the word of God. The Jews say that their word of God was given by God to Moses, face to face; the Christians say that their word of God came by divine inspiration; and the Turks say that their word of God, the Koran, was brought by an angel from heaven. Each of these churches accuses the others of unbelief; and, for my own part, I disbelieve them all"

-Thomas Paine

 

[WilliamC]

Since I am personally convinced I am not immortal and that my consciousness will permanently cease when I die the entire question of god and religion is sort of moot for me.

I guess I'm an agnostic that sees atheism as more believable than theism, but who am I to tell anyone what they should believe?

And do we really need yet another thread about this...

 

[charger]

I pray for the Atheists. Many are good people that have lost their way.
I have always believed in god. But in the last month my faith has never been stronger.
Read the Bible and then look at the world today. The information is all there.
All the information that people get today from the mainstream sources of media is propaganda straight from the devils mouth.
He is pushing his agenda.
The Devils work is everywhere!
He wants plenty of company when God throws him down into the pits of hell.
For the people that have to see to believe.You should get your proof soon enough.
It's been less than two of the Lord's days since Christ was crucified on the cross!
In the Bible he tell us not to become impatient he will be back soon.
When he comes back he will part the sky for everyone to see him.
If you have any feeling in your heart that something is missing take the time to read the Bible and go to Church for a couple of months.

 

[sophocles07]

I pray for the Atheists.

You could spend your time much more usefully.

Many are good people that have lost their way.

Awww...

I have always believed in god. But in the last month my faith has never been stronger.
Read the Bible and then look at the world today. The information is all there.
All the information that people get today from the mainstream sources of media is propaganda straight from the devils mouth.
He is pushing his agenda.
The Devils work is everywhere!
He wants plenty of company when God throws him down into the pits of hell.
For the people that have to see to believe.You should get your proof soon enough.
It's been less than two of the Lord's days since Christ was crucified on the cross!
In the Bible he tell us not to become impatient he will be back soon.
When he comes back he will part the sky for everyone to see him.
If you have any feeling in your heart that something is missing take the time to read the Bible and go to Church for a couple of months.

Bring on the Rapture, my friend; I’m ready for some action.

 

[Leroy_Jenkems]

“Wherever the poetry of myth is interpreted as biography, history, or science, it is killed.”

I think, also, that it is a mistake when atheists/agnostics (I’m an agnostic) call for an end to “myth” (and, implicitly, poetry and art) in favor of only reason. Though I don’t believe in the transcendental in the sense that a Christian does, I still think that the type of function myth used to play in the world has to be replaced with something—there must be an outlet for psychological, unconscious projection. What form this will take, I don’t know; it definitely can’t be the decayed forms of Christ and Mary, Apollo and the Pleiades.



I’m not going into all this. There’s a pretty long thread on this in “Civil Liberties” section, which doesn’t really involve all of my ideas, but gives a fairly good picture.

In that thread you’ll find also two literal-Theocrats who are fucking insane; I spend most of my time there arguing over even the basics of why slavery and theocracy are wrong, so it doesn’t get very far.



Who the fuck asks this?



I’ll post but I’m not replying to above Christian bullshit, I’m growing weary of arguing with complete morons over these dead ideas.

I've grown up with a Christian mother and a Deistic or agnostic (haven't really asked him which) father. In my experiences, most (not all) Christians are good-hearted people, just extremely gullible in cases that fulfill their reverence to Biblical prophecy. Take two examples:

1) After 9/11, my mother and her friends from a community Bible study group firmly believed and spoke out that the Apocalypse/The "End Times" were near, and tried to use vague references to Bible passages like "when the two brothers fall, the world will be awash in a sea of fire" (paraphrasing) to prove that 9/11 had Biblical explications.

2) This same group tosses around the idea of Barack Obama being the Anti-Christ in a half-joking, half-serious manner. Gee, I guess we'll wait and see if he can top Hitler, Napoleon, Stalin, Nero, etc, etc


Now, Christians certainly do not advocate looking to the ills of the world to disprove the existence of God, but they certainly use it in strategic ways to try and prove.

In a nutshell, some of the posts by atheists, agnostics, and deists on this forum and elsewhere, along with the writings of Joseph Campbell, show to me that the aforementioned entities are certainly quicker to think and reason before they speak than some Christians. Christians and atheists alike need to respect each others' space (the former much more so), and we all can get along like civil adults. Respect for the space and beliefs of non-Christians is definitely something Mike Huckabee should ponder.

 

[allyinoh]

I’ll post but I’m not replying to above Christian bullshit, I’m growing weary of arguing with complete morons over these dead ideas.

That's really uncalled for. As a Christian I would NEVER push my beliefs onto others and I respect everyone's own right to believe what they wish, but I find that people like you have no respect for others beliefs. It's ridiculous.

 

[Leroy_Jenkems]

1 John 2:17
And this world is fading away, along with everything that people crave. But anyone who does what pleases God will live forever.


So I hope that you all understand that all you need is faith and trust to believe that God came from heaven and lived in the flesh ( namely Jesus) He is perfect, (never sinned), and taught what man must do to be saved (to love God, and love others), He died for the worlds sins, and to those who believe in Him, He has given eternal life and a place in heaven someday.

Hebrews 13:14
For this world is not our permanent home; we are looking forward to a home yet to come.

Maranatha!

"America!"... Bless God...Love One Another!

Abundantjoy, I certainly appreciate your enthusiasm and desire to spread uplifting Biblical verses, but that was more or less a discussion between you and yourself - it wasn't a directly relevant response to the opening post.

Atheists, agnostics, and deists tend to rely on what is readily sensed with the human senses, through science. Certainly, science can explain in what manner gravity behaves, what causes combustion, atomic behavior, etc, but it does not tell us how these phenomena exist or where they come from. There is a mystery to everything, to life in general. Some choose to answer this question with the belief in a transcendant being (i.e. God) who's perfect and has a perfect plan for everything; others choose to believe in something that speaks more to their own experiences, such as the notion of a transcendant God who, as the passage goes, "works in mysterious ways", and we humans simply cannot make sense of the events of this life (i.e. deists, agnostics). Others still choose not to believe in anything.


I suppose a question I must ask is: How is God's existence any more improbable than our own?

 

[allyinoh]

nevermind.

 

[Leroy_Jenkems]

That's really uncalled for. As a Christian I would NEVER push my beliefs onto others and I respect everyone's own right to believe what they wish, but I find that people like you have no respect for others beliefs. It's ridiculous.

I agree with you. I didn't start this thread to provoke anybody, atheist or not; just to have civil discussion. But sophocles may have just been "venting" - I won't rush to a conclusion. I'm staying outta that one

You obviously have respect for atheists since a quote from Ayn Rand is in your sig.

 

[allyinoh]

I agree with you. I didn't start this thread to provoke anybody, atheist or not; just to have civil discussion. But sophocles may have just been "venting" - I won't rush to a conclusion. I'm staying outta that one

You obviously have respect for atheists since a quote from Ayn Rand is in your sig.

I respect everyone for their own views. I am a Christian, but I'm not religious, and I don't push my beliefs on others. I strongly believe in the saying, "live and let live," and I don't judge people because that's not my job. =)

 

[Dr.3D]

Reminds me of the old saying: "When you argue with a fool, chances are, he is doing the same."
Combine this with Psalms 14:1 and Psalms 53:1 and you will understand there is no point in arguing either way.