A lesson from Great Britain regarding 'reform' and 'working from the inside'

[sailingaway]

I didn't say we should invade them and change it.

I guess the UKIP and EU aren't any of our business either, so we all should stop talking about them.

those were raised as examples to change within a party system. I'm not speaking as a mod here, but I don't see why we would care if the UK has an attachment to their Royalty.

 

[flynn]

Taking over from within is an active goal that requires lot of financial supports and public media coverages. libertarian leaning candidates have neither. But if we ever succeed in destroying other side's future goal by aligning ourselves with the negative side of issue somehow dismantling any progress possible, people might take notice.

 

[marc1888]

I did get it from their manifesto mate so if its nonsense they should probably change it All of this UKIP stuff is really a waste of time because come Oct 2014 there wont be a United Kingdom left

Scotland out of Britain Britain out of Ireland.

This is complete nonsense, indeed the party has pledged to cut funding in most of those areas. It is true, that in some of those areas they've promised to increase funding - i'm not happy about it either, but thats what you have to do when you are managing a political party which is a semi-coalition between the old Labour left, the conservative base and libertarians.

Even in a Ron Paul administration things like this would happen because Ron Paul cannot be the party, a party will always have compromises on slight issues. I'm not one for compromise (hence why I despise the Conservative Party and love Ron Paul) but there's a difference between being practical and logical and being a sellout - UKIP is a good enough balance for me, and, unlike the GOP or Tory Party, UKIP is open to being influenced as its a members driven party.



Indeed, as far as i'm aware Ron Paul supports tough border controls as well - anybody who doesn't lives in an internationalist dream world.



Actually we respect our constitution just like you wish to respect yours. The Royal Family aren't elected, but don't exercise any meaningful power meaning they are the guardians of the constitution. As is stressed time and time again in this battle, liberty is what counts and not democracy - the British Monarchy fits completely in with libertarian principles and it angers me quite a lot when American libertarians somehow claim that Britain is ruled by princes when it's simply not.

Obama or HM Queen Elizabeth II who has approval ratings of 80%+ and is non-political ... I know who i'd have any day.



Nothing of note, simply slurs - some of you in this movement come across just as bad as the socialists do.

As for the polls, no it's actually 8% the average apart from a few recent polls this month - clutching at straws there mate.



- Ron Paul wants closed borders.

- UKIP do supports state schools correct, but prefer a much more independent system of education.

- Concerning the war on drugs, UKIP actually would look into decriminalisation as Farage has commented on in the past.

- Concerning the monetary system, actually the party is being driven towards a gold standard as shown by comments by Godfrey Bloom and Nigel Farage in the past year. As i've stated before, whilst the party isn't perfect it can at least by influenced and is open to change.

- On healthcare, yes thats true and its disappointing. However, the NHS is so ingrained into the British psye that is will take years of slow debate to even begin to overturn this strange love of state healthcare.

- Protectionism? complete nonsense, have you not heard Farage rally against EU protectionism?

 

[Mattsa]

It'll never happen. Never happened in the history of the world and it's not going to happen now. If you're not willing to fight for it you're not going to get it. It's as simple and as difficult as that.

Sadly, you are right.

I really admire the way the American patriots have tried to promote Ron Paul and the cause of liberty legitimately and peacefully.

I've been following the Ron Paul movement from the UK for many years. I always suspected that it was going to be an incredibly difficult challenge and I have been proved absolutely correct.

We are NOT dealing with a lawful political system. Government is nothing more than a mafia cartel given legitimacy by an equally corrupt legal and financial system.

It will not be defeated peacefully......... in my opinion.

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants" - Jefferson

Jefferson was so spot on. History is littered with the blood of those who have fought tyranny.

The fact that people may end up actually having to fight to preserve their liberty doesn't sit comfortably with people........... understandably.

 

[Cdn_for_liberty]

I think the takeaway from OP's post is that you need to balance between ideals and politics if you want to actually want to enact change. You need to think long term, know how to play the game of incrementalism and make friends with people who share some important views but don't have to share the same view to all issues.

I hope the RP movement or the libertarian/conservative movement would get the same takeaway from the OP's post but I have my doubts. From what I've read on this forum, i learned that incrementalism or pragmatism are seen as selling out so pulling a UKIP would be difficult if ideological purity is seen as more important than advancing towards positions of power to enact change.