a 'drug' question...

[acptulsa]

Drugs i did my life whole. Never they did effect I.

Whoa, dude!

 

[icon124]

this post is just ridiculous, shameful really. sorry to be so harsh. you need to wake up though.

maybe you are just young and uninformed? i don't know, but this kinda crap i have precious little patience for. it's one thing to feel this way yourself, but to spread this garbage is damn near a crime against humanity.

here in a second i'll provide you with a link so that i don't have to do another walk through on the whole issue.



::: edit :::


see here

you are exactly why I can't stand ppl on this site sometimes. If someone goes against your opinion, then that person is just plain stupid.

All I'm saying is more than likely 95% of people reading this have probably never even lived near a drug infested neighborhood. Your going off of theories that haven't been put into action...you just assume that legalizing drugs would make everything okay...and your comparing it to YEARSSSSS ago...things change.

I do admit there is a huge problem with this drug war and things do need to be changed...but I can never see letting heroin or crack be legal.

Maybe you need to experience ppl first hand strung out on these drugs first.

BUT I would blame the people for doing the drugs...but once your on them ur a different person

don't know it's just hard to see it..e.ducate me

 

[tod evans]

but I can never see letting heroin or crack be legal.

herein lies the big question...........just how can you justify the federal government having the authority to make these or any other "drug" illegal?

 

[FunkBuddha]

Maybe you need to experience ppl first hand strung out on these drugs first.

Yeah, because the drug war is really helping those folks out.

Let me ask this. Have you ever done drugs? If not, why not? Is it because they are illegal or is it because you were raised better, or maybe because you were scared to end up an addict? If so, the fear of being arrested didn't stop you and i don't think it stops most people who are curious. It sure as hell never stopped me.

 

[constituent]

you are exactly why I can't stand ppl on this site sometimes. If someone goes against your opinion, then that person is just plain stupid.

the feeling is mutual, i assure you.

 

[Kade]

will someone tell me why the 'war on drugs' is 'bad'? i have seen what drugs can do to a family first hand. while i can see why pot isnt all that bad, or maybe even not bad, what about coke, lsd, meth.....

Because philosophically you cannot expect to ask the government to step in for things you deem as "bad" all the while claiming to take the high road on being left alone in some other things, like market regulation.

It's a hypocrisy.

Better living through Chemistry- I say- Government be damned.

 

[constituent]

1) All I'm saying is more than likely 95% of people reading this have probably never even lived near a drug infested neighborhood. Your going off of theories that haven't been put into action...you just assume that legalizing drugs would make everything okay...and your comparing it to YEARSSSSS ago...things change.

...

2) Maybe you need to experience ppl first hand strung out on these drugs first.

...

3) BUT I would blame the people for doing the drugs...but once your on them ur a different person


....


4) don't know it's just hard to see it..e.ducate me

now for the line by line, to e.ducate you.


1) If you believe there is such thing as a non-"drug infested neighborhood" then you're either fooling yourself, or don't know your neighborhood.

Now since you offered a statistic, what is this statistic based on? where are your facts in this regard?

2) No comment.

3) There is no "them." They are all different, and do different things to different people. You assert this as a fact though, are you speaking from personal experience or did you just hear that somewhere?

4) It's not difficult to see, you have only refused to look (objectively).

 

[acptulsa]

All I'm saying is more than likely 95% of people reading this have probably never even lived near a drug infested neighborhood. Your going off of theories that haven't been put into action...you just assume that legalizing drugs would make everything okay...and your comparing it to YEARSSSSS ago...things change.

Things do change. People lose all respect for the law. People with mental problems wind up overstuffing our prisons. We wind up with twenty-five percent of the world's prison population. Question is, have they changed for the better?

The band-aid is worse than the disease.

 

[Kade]

All I'm saying is more than likely 95% of people reading this have probably never even lived near a drug infested neighborhood.

I'm giving a tremendous amount of information about my life in doing this, but I grew up here:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=...spn=0.096085,0.160675&ie=UTF8&z=16&iwloc=addr

I went to this Elementary School: http://iusd.net/LaTijera/index.htm

Any questions?

I am very liberal when it comes to drug policy.

I also don't buy that people can't rise up from modest beginnings to succeed. I don't buy it one bit...

 

[constituent]

1) Okay here's my problem with allowing drugs to be legal...some drugs like heroin or meth are EXTREMELY addictive...by giving you easy access to the drug a lot of ppl will try it and more than likely get addicted....

First, define "addictive." I've taken several psych courses on chemical dependency and don't think i've found one definition or addictive potential scale that even approaches scientific. Ask a chem. dependency expert, they'll back me up on this. Your blanket assertion that "heroin or meth are EXTREMELY addictive," is laughable at best.

2) don't you think that will cause more ppl to get addicted and therefore cause a lot more violence....because ppl will do anything to get the drug....

No. Also, you seem to be trying to force a causal relationship between chemical use-or "addiction" as you seem to be referring to it-and incidence of violence that does not exist. Most "druggies" I've known only get violent when in times of short supply

3) I mean I just don't see how stopping the war on drugs could cause less violence, etc...maybe if we went a different route, but not making drugs completely legal.

Try "prohibition." How can you say that you"just don't see how stopping the war on drugs could cause less violence," knowing the history of prohibition? You can't (well, you can and have, but it is just silly).

4) It's just like alcohol if you think about it...yes it's your choice to do it and I have no problem with that...but bars cause nothing but problems for the neighborhoods (for the most part)....I live in a rough rough rough neighborhood and we have bars on every other corner...it does no good for anyone...

No actually, it isn't.

5) It's hard for me here...I want to be all about freedom of choice, but some things don't make sense for the group as a whole. Someone please help explain this!!

That's because you still believe in the "group as a whole." Until you learn to appreciate individual human life, I cannot help you.

6) Also what about the problem of once your so high you don't know what your doing....killing, fighting, etc....wouldn't that be a huge problem too.

Once who is so high on what now? This makes no sense.

for perspective, your first post in this thread with your questions answered. hope that's better.

 

[icon124]

now for the line by line, to e.ducate you.


1) If you believe there is such thing as a non-"drug infested neighborhood" then you're either fooling yourself, or don't know your neighborhood.

Now since you offered a statistic, what is this statistic based on? where are your facts in this regard?

2) No comment.

3) There is no "them." They are all different, and do different things to different people. You assert this as a fact though, are you speaking from personal experience or did you just hear that somewhere?

4) It's not difficult to see, you have only refused to look (objectively).

1) of course I know that...but I mean a majority of your neighborhood being on drugs...not a pretty site...ever seen the wire? that's were I live. It's terrible, they even filmed on my street a few times.

2) haha okay then

3) I know enough ppl on drugs...or that have experimented with them...I've seen what it does...one drug...multiple drugs...whatever you can think of I've seen people do...and honestly they are different people when they are high on drugs. It really is very scary.

4) Theoretically I understand what good can come from ending the war on drugs. BUT at the same time I know how bad drugs can be...and if they are legal it would be just that much more justifiable for people to "try" them.

At the end of the day I really do want to believe that the war on drugs is terrible...and I honestly do...but I still can't see heroin or anything similar being legal...it's so hard to picture that when you know from first hand experience what it does...

I have friends who have parents that are so gone on heroin they could care less about their children...it's a hard thing to see.

lmao thanks for trying to be a smart ass about me typing e.ducate like that by mistake...I now understand that you are a very intelligent person for picking up on that...*so much sarcasm*

From what you are saying in your posts it also seems as if you have NEVER been in a terrible neighborhood to experience this stuff first hand...you sit in your classroom doing lab experiments...come live around dope phens and then let me know how that experiment went.

Yeah, because the drug war is really helping those folks out.

Let me ask this. Have you ever done drugs? If not, why not? Is it because they are illegal or is it because you were raised better, or maybe because you were scared to end up an addict? If so, the fear of being arrested didn't stop you and i don't think it stops most people who are curious. It sure as hell never stopped me.

I don't do drugs because I see (all around where I live) what it can do to you....it's that easy.

 

[sophocles07]

will someone tell me why the 'war on drugs' is 'bad'? i have seen what drugs can do to a family first hand. while i can see why pot isnt all that bad, or maybe even not bad, what about coke, lsd, meth.....

Alcohol is just as potentially problematic. LSD and Cocaine, and Meth (which is worse than the other two even in small amounts), used in excess, are bad. Use in moderation is fine by me.

Essentially, it’s about self responsibility. Why treat the whole country like 3 year olds because of a few who can’t handle their shit?

Plus, all of the above reasons posted by others—the ‘drug war’ doesn’t work.

 

[constituent]

lmao thanks for trying to be a smart ass about me typing e.ducate like that by mistake...I now understand that you are a very intelligent person for picking up on that...*so much sarcasm*

hahah, keep your eyes peeled. i promise you many opportunities to bust my ass for the same

 

[ryanmkeisling]

1) of course I know that...but I mean a majority of your neighborhood being on drugs...not a pretty site...ever seen the wire? that's were I live. It's terrible, they even filmed on my street a few times.

2) haha okay then

3) I know enough ppl on drugs...or that have experimented with them...I've seen what it does...one drug...multiple drugs...whatever you can think of I've seen people do...and honestly they are different people when they are high on drugs. It really is very scary.

4) Theoretically I understand what good can come from ending the war on drugs. BUT at the same time I know how bad drugs can be...and if they are legal it would be just that much more justifiable for people to "try" them.

At the end of the day I really do want to believe that the war on drugs is terrible...and I honestly do...but I still can't see heroin or anything similar being legal...it's so hard to picture that when you know from first hand experience what it does...

I have friends who have parents that are so gone on heroin they could care less about their children...it's a hard thing to see.

lmao thanks for trying to be a smart ass about me typing e.ducate like that by mistake...I now understand that you are a very intelligent person for picking up on that...*so much sarcasm*

Drugs can never be BAD they just ARE. You have let emotions rule your decisions regarding this. I know Baltimore well. Not much different than say Camden? Parts of Boston, Nyc, LA? Open air drug markets are everywhere and they are a product of the market and a failed prohibition policy. I wonder if you have even ever been into one of the drug houses in your neighborhood? Well I have and I can tell you first hand that for the most part you will never find violent or crazy people there. You will find a bunch of fucked up people focused on one thing: getting high. A junkie would rather lay around in his/her own filth than attack anyone. Crime comes into the equation when the prices are driven astronomically high by the black market and quality is hurt. If you are feigning for drugs and you get sold a $100 worth of something on the street that will not get you high than yes you might go crazy and do some crazy things, but if you could just walk into a store and buy it, high quality, cheap price, you are going to go home and get high and not give a shit about anything else. Now I will agree with you about the rise in drug use we would see with legalization but this is more an argument for better education, less hysteria and would only last at most a generation. Parents who are junkies are the best education out there: how many of your friends whose parents are drug addicts use hard drugs? The bottom line is those who have ruined themselves with drugs are to blame not the drugs themselves. Assuming the government has the responsibility or the right to make decisions regarding any citizens personal life goes against liberty and freedom.

The Wire is a great show and most of the writers for that show all support legalization and in fact anyone who has lived in an area like you do can see the benefits:

http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/5168.html

There is a great quote in that article:
"A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right," wrote Thomas Paine

And here is another excellent quote (anyone who doesn't know where this is from should not be here)

"When you actually study the beginnings of the federal war on drugs, you uncover a history of lies, bigotry, and ignorance so extensive it will leave you speechless...The failure of the federal war on drugs should be clear enough from one simple fact: our government has been unable to keep drugs even out of prisons, which are surrounded by armed guards. The fact is, drugs are already available to people who want them. That is the nightmare scenario that people fear, but they fail to realize that we are already there. Poll after poll finds that the vast bulk of high school and college students easily able to acquire drugs if they so desire. That is how black markets work: prohibiting something that is highly desired does not make the desire go away but merely ensures that the supply of that good is provided in the most dangerous and undesirable manner possible, and endows criminal sectors of society with additional wealth and power."

 

[constituent]

From what you are saying in your posts it also seems as if you have NEVER been in a terrible neighborhood to experience this stuff first hand...you sit in your classroom doing lab experiments...come live around dope phens and then let me know how that experiment went.

I don't do drugs because I see (all around where I live) what it can do to you....it's that easy.

The school i graduated from was housed in a condemned building.

I've spent most of my life in (and am a proud native of) South Texas. Nearly two years of my life were spent sleeping on the street. I don't need some yankee telling me about life in "drug infested neighborhoods," nor making such bold (false) assumptions about who I am or where I am from.

 

[Kade]

The school i graduated from was housed in a condemned building.

I've spent most of my life in (and am a proud native of) South Texas. Nearly two years of my life were spent sleeping on the street. I don't need some yankee telling me about life in "drug infested neighborhoods," nor making such bold (false) assumptions about who I am or where I am from.

Chill. I live in the north now, and I like the people up here.

 

[constituent]

Chill. I live in the north now, and I like the people up here.

sorry, i should have excluded people from pennsylvania too. the folks there remind me very much of the folks here (though i'm not certain where you are at atm).

i do apologize for the general collectivization of yankees though.

 

[icon124]

Drugs can never be BAD they just ARE. You have let emotions rule your decisions regarding this. I know Baltimore well. Not much different than say Camden? Parts of Boston, Nyc, LA? Open air drug markets are everywhere and they are a product of the market and a failed prohibition policy. I wonder if you have even ever been into one of the drug houses in your neighborhood? Well I have and I can tell you first hand that for the most part you will never find violent or crazy people there. You will find a bunch of fucked up people focused on one thing: getting high. A junkie would rather lay around in his/her own filth than attack anyone. Crime comes into the equation when the prices are driven astronomically high by the black market and quality is hurt. If you are feigning for drugs and you get sold a $100 worth of something on the street that will not get you high than yes you might go crazy and do some crazy things, but if you could just walk into a store and buy it, high quality, cheap price, you are going to go home and get high and not give a shit about anything else. Now I will agree with you about the rise in drug use we would see with legalization but this is more an argument for better education, less hysteria and would only last at most a generation. Parents who are junkies are the best education out there: how many of your friends whose parents are drug addicts use hard drugs? The bottom line is those who have ruined themselves with drugs are to blame not the drugs themselves. Assuming the government has the responsibility or the right to make decisions regarding any citizens personal life goes against liberty and freedom.

The Wire is a great show and most of the writers for that show all support legalization and in fact anyone who has lived in an area like you do can see the benefits:

http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/5168.html

There is a great quote in that article:
"A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right," wrote Thomas Paine

And here is another excellent quote (anyone who doesn't know where this is from should not be here)

"When you actually study the beginnings of the federal war on drugs, you uncover a history of lies, bigotry, and ignorance so extensive it will leave you speechless...The failure of the federal war on drugs should be clear enough from one simple fact: our government has been unable to keep drugs even out of prisons, which are surrounded by armed guards. The fact is, drugs are already available to people who want them. That is the nightmare scenario that people fear, but they fail to realize that we are already there. Poll after poll finds that the vast bulk of high school and college students easily able to acquire drugs if they so desire. That is how black markets work: prohibiting something that is highly desired does not make the desire go away but merely ensures that the supply of that good is provided in the most dangerous and undesirable manner possible, and endows criminal sectors of society with additional wealth and power."

See this is the type of response I needed. I appreciate the evidence, and like I said before I admit it does seem to make a lot of sense. It really is a hard thing though to picture people going into stores buying heroin (just using that as an example).

I guess I did put to much emotion into my response...as it would be really hard for me not to, considering my conditions. Thank you though for the information...I'll have to sit and do research myself.

You have opened my eyes now I must do the same for others.

You and others like you keep me coming here for knowledge.

 

[ryanmkeisling]

See this is the type of response I needed. I appreciate the evidence, and like I said before I admit it does seem to make a lot of sense. It really is a hard thing though to picture people going into stores buying heroin (just using that as an example).

I guess I did put to much emotion into my response...as it would be really hard for me not to, considering my conditions. Thank you though for the information...I'll have to sit and do research myself.

You have opened my eyes now I must do the same for others.

You and others like you keep me coming here for knowledge.

No one can blame you for being emotional when it comes to the issues surrounding drug addiction and the things it can do to a person, family or a neighborhood. Ron Paul's new book, of which I quoted in my last post, has a great section on the drug war but it is a muddy issue still. If drugs were legal should there be regulation, federal or otherwise? What type and to be administered by whom? Should they be taxed? Production specifications? Who should be responsible, if anyone, for providing users with a sanitary, safe place to use? Education? Rehab? Those are just rambling questions from the top of my head but a list like that could be endless. I fear it would take some time for people to fully adjust to real freedom and real liberty which means society has real accountability and there would be some fallout from years of a backward approach that has been forced on us all from birth. Freedom is a new concept to many of us and you are not alone.

 

[thegood_dr]

lsd

LSD is a vital piece of the human puzzle.