2008 Liberty Dollar

[Acala]

Not so sure about that

I think the word dollar comes from the word Thaler, which was the name given to coins that came for a silver mining region by that name in Germany (I think). So the word dollar was not actually a measure of weight but was a corruption of the name of a region from which widely used silver coins originated. Rather like the Byzant.

 

[Dr.3D]

I think the word dollar comes from the word Thaler, which was the name given to coins that came for a silver mining region by that name in Germany (I think). So the word dollar was not actually a measure of weight but was a corruption of the name of a region from which widely used silver coins originated. Rather like the Byzant.

What I meant was the term for the original U.S. dollar.

The U.S. dollar was originally specified by the Coinage Act of 1792 to be a unit of weight (471.25 grains of troy silver (about 30.54 g of silver)) and not one of money as it is thought of today.

http://www.search.com/reference/United_States_dollar

 

[Acala]

Not the same

The monetary unit called "dollar" has, at various times, been associated by law with a specific amount of certain metals. And, in fact, has been at the same time associated with different weights of different metals. But the word "dollar" is not itself a unit of weight measurement and never has been. Nobody could or would ever say "how many dollars do you weigh?"

The point is that because the word "dollar" is not a unit of weight, its metal basis can easily be manipulated up to and including the point where it has no metal basis at all. If, on the other hand, we circulate specified weights of metals as money, and refrain from giving those units of weight a name, then it becomes more difficult to debase the money. If our currency is gold, then our transactions are in grams, or ounces or pounds of gold, and anyone who tried to call a coin with less than an ounce of gold in it a "gold ounce" could be easily and swiftly identified as a fraud and dealt with accordingly.

 

[Dr.3D]

The monetary unit called "dollar" has, at various times, been associated by law with a specific amount of certain metals. And, in fact, has been at the same time associated with different weights of different metals. But the word "dollar" is not itself a unit of weight measurement and never has been. Nobody could or would ever say "how many dollars do you weigh?"

The point is that because the word "dollar" is not a unit of weight, its metal basis can easily be manipulated up to and including the point where it has no metal basis at all. If, on the other hand, we circulate specified weights of metals as money, and refrain from giving those units of weight a name, then it becomes more difficult to debase the money. If our currency is gold, then our transactions are in grams, or ounces or pounds of gold, and anyone who tried to call a coin with less than an ounce of gold in it a "gold ounce" could be easily and swiftly identified as a fraud and dealt with accordingly.

I agree, the name dollar can be manipulated. Just wait till somebody tries to manipulate what a Troy Ounce is defined as.

I think the reason they gave it a name was so other countries could determine what country the currency was from. Also, by calling it by a certain name, people knew from the definition of that name, how much it was supposed to weigh.

If you notice the Pound Sterling is not what it seems. Neither is it a pound nor is it Sterling.

 

[Acala]

I don't disagree

I agree that even a weight can be fudged if the people get complacent, but historically speaking, debasement has occurred after the King or Emperor or whatever named the coin of the realm. I think it is easier to tell the people "the dollar is now this new coin" than it is to say "the ounce of gold is now a half ounce of gold". But the REAL answer is to fight against any laws that restrict the right of the people to use ANY coin they want, so long as its weight is not dishonest - ie fraudulent.

You raise an interesting question for me - was the British pound really an actual pound of silver at one point? That would be one helluva big coin!

 

[ARealConservative]

I agree, the name dollar can be manipulated. Just wait till somebody tries to manipulate what a Troy Ounce is defined as.

I think the reason they gave it a name was so other countries could determine what country the currency was from. Also, by calling it by a certain name, people knew from the definition of that name, how much it was supposed to weigh.

If you notice the Pound Sterling is not what it seems. Neither is it a pound nor is it Sterling.

on ebay I see some suckers pay way too much for a Troy Pound of Silver.

http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?from=R40&_trksid=m37&satitle=troy+pound

They must be thinking they are bidding on 16 Troy Ounce Bars or Rounds - but they will only be getting 12 - while paying over $25 an ounce for them.

 

[Dr.3D]

You raise an interesting question for me - was the British pound really an actual pound of silver at one point? That would be one helluva big coin!

The pound sterling of the United Kingdom was originally the value of one Troy pound of sterling silver, hence the name: Pound Sterling.

http://www.advfn.com/currencies/gbp/about/BritishPound.html

The sterling was originally a silver penny. 240 of them made a pound.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/pound_sterling

The origins of sterling lie in the reign of King Offa of Mercia, who introduced the silver penny. It copied the denarius of the new currency system of Charlemagne's Frankish Empire. As in the Carolingian system, 240 pennies weighed 1 pound (corresponding to Charlemagne's libra), with the shilling corresponding to Charlemagne's solidus and equal to 12 pence. At the time of the penny's introduction, it weighed 22.5 troy grains of fine silver (30 tower grains)(c. 1.5 g), indicating that the Mercian pound weighed 5400 troy grains (the Mercian pound became the basis of the Tower Pound, which weighed 5,400 Troy grains, equivalent to 7200 tower grains). At this time, the name sterling had yet to be acquired. The penny swiftly spread throughout the other Anglo-Saxon kingdoms and became the standard coin of what was to become England.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pound_sterling

The British Pound Sterling was actually one troy pound of sterling silver.
It was divided up into 240 pennies. Large transactions were in Pounds while smaller transactions were in divisions of the Pound such as shilling, pence and the other denominations of the Pound.

Amazing how things have changed since the original Pound Sterling was used to what they call a Pound Sterling today. So as you can see, even when they call it by weight, they can still manipulate what it really is.

Today the Pound Sterling is worth less than one troy ounce of silver. Go figure.