2001 Photo: William Ayers stepping on US flag

[jmdrake]

Do I have to say that I disagree with socialism and communism 58 times before you believe me, or do I have to say it 126 times?

I believe in the Constitution too, but I refuse to go around yelling about some group that didn't do jack shit and believed a lot of the same things we know today to be true about US imperialism. It's a waste of time and it would make me look ridiculous.

Again I ask the question, did Bill Ayers and the Weather Underground have a problem with Soviet imperialism? None of the Ayers defenders seem willing to address this. If we're going to talk about how some group has the same values as "we" do or (worse) has the same values that Ron Paul does that question has to be answered. Finally, I would no more defend Bill Ayers than I would David Duke. And I see a lot of people running around saying he "has the same values" as "we do" also.

 

[Anti Federalist]

I am just now realizing that I am in a totally different movement than some of you guys.

Oh stop it.

You know me, have known me for years now, have talked to me numerous times.

You know what I'm about, or at least I've always thought you did.

I'm sorry I don't get worked up over a Bill Ayers character or for that matter, don't get teary eyed over a piece of cloth with some bright colors on it.

FFS, I've been openly calling for secession for how long now?

Do you think I would do that, and be completely serious about it and have still have any sentimental attachments to a flag or some arbitrary borders on map?

Is Bill Ayers a PoS lefty, yeah, sure he is, so what?

I'm less interested in how many Molotovs some lefty radical threw back in the 60's as I am more concerned about those same carrier battle groups mentioned, wiping out tens of thousands of people at a clip.

Who is the terrorist here?

Ron Paul asks the rhetorical question on the floor of the house, "What if the American people woke up to the fact that in almost every case the reasons for going to war were based on lies?"

I've asked that question to myself and don't like the answer, because if true, and I've come to understand it is, then we are, to the tune of millions of people since the end of WWII.

Millions dead, based on lies, and I'm supposed genuflect kindly on the flag that represents?

I want no part of that, and I've made it clear from day one that was how I felt about the issue in general, so nothing has changed on my end.

I find that a shitty comment to make to me.

 

[Justinjj1]

I know that Stalin was long dead by the time the neo-leftists emerged.

I seriously think this board is being invaded by socialists and leftists from othe sites. They pretty much admitted that they are doing this.

Sure, everyone who disagrees with you is a socialist or leftist.

 

[LibertyEagle]

Oh stop it.

You know me, have known me for years now, have talked to me numerous times.

You know what I'm about, or at least I've always thought you did.

I'm sorry I don't get worked up over a Bill Ayers character or for that matter, don't get teary eyed over a piece of cloth with some bright colors on it.

FFS, I've been openly calling for secession for how long now?

Do you think I would do that, and be completely serious about it and have still have any sentimental attachments to a flag or some arbitrary borders on map?

Is Bill Ayers a PoS lefty, yeah, sure he is, so what?

I'm less interested in how many Molotovs some lefty radical threw back in the 60's as I am more concerned about those same carrier battle groups mentioned, wiping out tens of thousands of people at a clip.

Who is the terrorist here?

BOTH. Why is it an either/or?

Ron Paul asks the rhetorical question on the floor of the house, "What if the American people woke up to the fact that in almost every case the reasons for going to war were based on lies?"

I've asked that question to myself and don't like the answer, because if true, and I've come to understand it is, then we are, to the tune of millions of people since the end of WWII.

Millions dead, based on lies, and I'm supposed genuflect kindly on the flag that represents?

Like we've already discussed, the flag represents something different to both of us.

I want no part of that, and I've made it clear from day one that was how I felt about the issue in general, so nothing has changed on my end.

I find that a shitty comment to make to me.

Yes, it was and I owe you an apology. I'm sorry. I know you are a patriot.

 

[Anti Federalist]

BOTH. Why is it an either/or?

It's not, just a question of degree.

Like we've already discussed, the flag represents something different to both of us.

Yes it does, I dragged it back into the equation in the heat of the moment, after agreeing to drop the subject.

For that I apologize.

Yes, it was and I owe you an apology. I'm sorry. I know you are a patriot.

As are you.

This is touchy subject no matter how you look at it.

Think nothing of it.

 

[Light]

I don't feel like arguing. There is no point in arguing, since both sides already have thier minds made up before the arguments are even brought forward. Its generally why I avoid debating altogether.

 

[Anti Federalist]

I don't feel like arguing. There is no point in arguing, since both sides already have thier minds made up before the arguments are even brought forward. Its generally why I avoid debating altogether.

I'd argue with that.

 

[klamath]

That's very possible.. but if you watch the entire documentary you will find that the #1 issue for the members of WU was US Imperialism... the ideology came second as a solution. They were against the war for the same reasons we are against the illegal US wars today. I agree it was the wrong solution they came up with, but I give people points for recognizing the PROBLEM.. why?? Because most people never understood the problem of US Imperialism, and most people still do not.

Secondly, we are talking about the WU, they killed a few people, so why you are citing a statistic that Communism has killed tens of millions if not hundreds is beyond me..





Do I have to say that I disagree with socialism and communism 58 times before you believe me, or do I have to say it 126 times?

I believe in the Constitution too, but I refuse to go around yelling about some group that didn't do jack shit and believed a lot of the same things we know today to be true about US imperialism. It's a waste of time and it would make me look ridiculous.

"We're comparing coffee beans to carbon molecules here. Weather Underground type organizations are never, EVER EVER going to kill nearly the amount of people nor take away as many liberties as the Bush ideology."

I believe this post of yours is what got people comparing numbers of dead, Danno.
I know you isolate the weather underground from the general Communist world movement lead by the Soviets but in my mind without a doubt they were working with the aid of some of the most murderous regimes in the world. I grew up in the '70's and like many on this forums today I was very political as a teenager. I read, listened to talk shows(It wasn't right wing radio in thoses days but left wing bay area stations) all world shortwave broadcasts. I would listen to Radio Moscow for hours, VOA, AFR NHK tokio and all the countries in between for news of World events and opinion from all prospectives. What came out real clear was to listen to Radio Moscow's spin of a news event and then hear radical left callers repeating word for word what Radio Moscow had broadcast.
In my mind WU and Soviet imperialism were one in the same and the weather underground was only part of the communist killing machine. That does not mean that some of the young people that got into it didn't believe it was an organization only to fight the vietnam war, american interventionism and for civil rights for American blacks but they didn't read this part of the mission statement of the WU;
"The goals is the destruction of U.S. imperialism and the achievement of a classless world: world communism. Winning state power in the U.S. will occur as a result of the military forces of the U.S. overextending themselves around the world and being defeated piecemeal; struggle within the U.S. will be a vital part of this process, but when the revolution triumphs in the U.S. it will have been made by the people of the whole world. . . .".

The fact that Bill Ayers is now a common visitor to the whitehouse makes a person wonder whether the imperialistic wars going on under Obama are not now the imperialistic wars of the communist left.