1960's Auto Worker Hated His Job & Felt like a Robot

[sparebulb]

There is no specific point in my posting this video other than it is a time capsule of what the 'murikan worker has lost over the years. This touches on some interesting discussions on automation and worker motivation and interest.

By the way, I believe that those are Dodge Darts coming off the line in the last company video. My earliest recollection is riding in one my parents had.

 

[acptulsa]

1964 Chevrolets. Full size--Impala, Bel Air, Biscayne.

 

[tod evans]

No worries these menial jobs have been offshored, now today's children can excel in gender studies and social justice studies.

Funny though, plumber and carpenter were still considered an upgrade to union factory jobs.

 

[sparebulb]

No worries these menial jobs have been offshored, now today's children can excel in gender studies and social justice studies.

Funny though, plumber and carpenter were still considered an upgrade to union factory jobs.

Yes, and yes.

It is pretty obvious that Herbert was not well suited for factory work. He might have had an attitude or personality problem, but that's OK. The fact that he recognized that his in-laws seemed to be happier in their occupations tells me that he knew that he should change occupations. It would be nice to know what became of him.

I thought it was interesting what Mr. Land, from Polaroid, said about work.

 

[phill4paul]

It's all relative. I suppose a week in an Appalachian coal mine might have had him thinking he was shitting in high cotton.

 

[ralfy]

In most parts of the developing world, you'd be paid around $10 a day (not an hour, but a day) for the same type of work, with the cost of living only around 30 pct lower.

Check out what income and cost of living is like here:

https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/

 

[tod evans]

In most parts of the developing world, you'd be paid around $10 a day (not an hour, but a day) for the same type of work, with the cost of living only around 30 pct lower.

Check out what income and cost of living is like here:

https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/

I could care less about "most parts of the world", here in the USA RR union jobs pay around $30.00hr which isn't exactly chump-change.

Whether or not one is pro or con unions the complaint about having to be on-call 24/7 or face sanctions is valid.

How the rest of the world handles their infrastructure isn't my concern and it shouldn't be the concern of the US government either.

Hell, our RR's are private businesses and the government needs to butt out of their affairs too.

 

[sparebulb]

Wages in other countries should be irrelevant.

Remember when GWBush used to lecture us with "Americans need to be more competative"?

I wasn't fooled then: That was code for you uppity rabble make too much and our wage structure needs to be more in line with that of Mexico or Malaysia.

 

[Krugminator2]

Wages in other countries should be irrelevant.

They seem relevant. If a company gets the same work for 70% less cost, why should a business stay in America?

 

[acptulsa]

They seem relevant. If a company gets the same work for 70% less cost, why should a business stay in America?

So their product doesn't get stolen out of the container a mile outside of Long Beach while the Professional Own Foot Shooters in D.C. are fucking up the ports and the same breed in Sacramento are firing drivers and banning trucks.

 

[ralfy]

I could care less about "most parts of the world", here in the USA RR union jobs pay around $30.00hr which isn't exactly chump-change.

Whether or not one is pro or con unions the complaint about having to be on-call 24/7 or face sanctions is valid.

How the rest of the world handles their infrastructure isn't my concern and it shouldn't be the concern of the US government either.

Hell, our RR's are private businesses and the government needs to butt out of their affairs too.

How do you think it started? Many moved from agriculture to manufacturing to avail of higher income, but more complained after they got the same pay while Ford got more through his assembly line system, so he upped the wages in exchange for continued productivity. From there, more began to avail of layaway plans and other schemes so they could get their own Model Ts, iceboxes, and more.

The video you're seeing, then, is the outcome of that: higher-than-average wages which allowed the factory worker to buy even houses, but guess what happened? A decade after, that was not sustainable, while more with better skills moved from factories to white collar jobs, and those manufacturing jobs outsourced to other countries. Not surprisingly, they experienced the same as their wages and skills also went up, e.g., more than a decade ago, it was reported that 60 pct of manufacturing in China was assembly, as they too started outsourcing to other countries while more of their workers wanted to move to the service industry for higher pay. Which is exactly what happened to the U.S. after the 1960s.

So, the point isn't for you to care about other countries but to see what happened: more productivity given automation and in exchange for higher pay also led to more behavior described in the video (remember how Taylorism turned auto workers into cogs?). Guess what's happening in the service industry?

 

[ralfy]

Wages in other countries should be irrelevant.

Remember when GWBush used to lecture us with "Americans need to be more competative"?

I wasn't fooled then: That was code for you uppity rabble make too much and our wage structure needs to be more in line with that of Mexico or Malaysia.

Why do you think more U.S. companies started outsourcing starting in the 1970s? Why do you think that video looks less relevant now as more workers are in the service industries? OTOH, is the video also relevant?

 

[acptulsa]

The video you're seeing, then, is the outcome of that: higher-than-average wages which allowed the factory worker to buy even houses, but guess what happened? A decade after, that was not sustainable...

You think the service industry paid more--ever--than union manufacturing jobs? You think living wages led to the Great Depression? The evidence says otherwise. Henry Ford, the great antisemitic industrial pioneer-turned-Luddite himself, was leading the way in freezing and cutting wages by then.

So, the point isn't for you to care about other countries but to see what happened: more productivity given automation and in exchange for higher pay also led to more behavior described in the video (remember how Taylorism turned auto workers into cogs?). Guess what's happening in the service industry?

The service industry is huge and extremely varied. Lots and lots of things happen in it.

Why do you think more U.S. companies started outsourcing starting in the 1970s? Why do you think that video looks less relevant now as more workers are in the service industries? OTOH, is the video also relevant?

Sociopaths who care about nothing but the bottom line go wherever they smell desperation, and their communities--and their quality control--be damned. That said, unions had developed a psychosis of their own by then (can you say yes, Don Godfather?), and drove that by actively encouraging their members to cease to be the most productive craftsmen in the world.

Throw an ever-increasingly meddlesome government and our self destruction was assured. That's the angle they left out of your brainwashing. But I was there, watching the seventies unfold in real time. Government hates it when people work things out for ourselves, but that always works better than federal intervention.

 

[CaptUSA]

 

[tod evans]

How do you think it started?

I'm fully aware of "how it started" and was alive to see it affect my industry and my fathers.

There are pitfalls to outsourcing your means of production, the least of which are political differences.

There's a reason there are different countries in different land masses that different people call home. The view being pushed that there's one big global marketplace and a decentralized means of production neglects the simple fact that people are different.

 

[acptulsa]

I'm fully aware of "how it started" and was alive to see it affect my industry and my fathers.

There are pitfalls to outsourcing your means of production, the least of which are political differences.

There's a reason there are different countries in different land masses that different people call home. The view being pushed that there's one big global marketplace and a decentralized means of production neglects the simple fact that people are different.

I know we shouldn't come down on these kids who flatly tell us about things we witnessed, just as though we didn't see it with our own eyes. They're trained to do that in school, instead of asking questions, to alienate the very people who can help them develop a more balanced perspective. But we must help them out with the rest of the story anyway, just like Paul Harvey.

I'll help you be patient if you'll do as much for me.

 

[tod evans]

I know we shouldn't come down on these kids who flatly tell us about things we witnessed, just as though we didn't see it with our own eyes. They're trained to do that in school, instead of asking questions, to alienate the very people who can help them develop a more balanced perspective. But we must help them out with the rest of the story anyway, just like Paul Harvey.

I'll help you be patient if you'll do as much for me.

My patience is VERY frazzled...........

 

[ralfy]

I'm fully aware of "how it started" and was alive to see it affect my industry and my fathers.

There are pitfalls to outsourcing your means of production, the least of which are political differences.

There's a reason there are different countries in different land masses that different people call home. The view being pushed that there's one big global marketplace and a decentralized means of production neglects the simple fact that people are different.

Outsourcing was by combinations of economic factors: the use of the dollar as a global reserve currency which made exports more expensive and imports cheaper, the lower costs attained when manufacturing near export markets, and so on.

It's the same factors which led to political differences.

 

[ralfy]

You think the service industry paid more--ever--than union manufacturing jobs? You think living wages led to the Great Depression? The evidence says otherwise. Henry Ford, the great antisemitic industrial pioneer-turned-Luddite himself, was leading the way in freezing and cutting wages by then.

Why do you think the bulk of the labor force is in the service industry? Why do you think more went to college and moved away from the factory work that their fathers did? Why do you think more moved from farms to factories?

About Ford, why do you think not only Ford but many industrialists wanted to keep wages low? Who do you think were fighting for higher wages? Their right-wing admirers? And how do you think the same factory workers were able to buy Model Ts and many other consumer items?

The service industry is huge and extremely varied. Lots and lots of things happen in it.

Of course. What do you expect when more skill sets are needed? And why would many move to service industry for lower wages?

Sociopaths who care about nothing but the bottom line go wherever they smell desperation, and their communities--and their quality control--be damned. That said, unions had developed a psychosis of their own by then (can you say yes, Don Godfather?), and drove that by actively encouraging their members to cease to be the most productive craftsmen in the world.

Throw an ever-increasingly meddlesome government and our self destruction was assured. That's the angle they left out of your brainwashing. But I was there, watching the seventies unfold in real time. Government hates it when people work things out for ourselves, but that always works better than federal intervention.

Godfather? Think capitalist. Why do you think the bottom line matters most, such that investors will throw employees under the bus to attain even higher profits?

 

[acptulsa]

Do you have a point? I wasn't looking for a game of Twenty Questions. I didn't even say if it was animal, vegetable or mineral.

Why do you think the bulk of the labor force is in the service industry?

Because people who don't have a job at all are, by definition, not in the labor force.

Why do you think more went to college and moved away from the factory work that their fathers did?

In which decade?

Why do you think more moved from farms to factories?

Tractors, of course. Think about it. If you can't work that one out, I'll give you a hand with it.

About Ford, why do you think not only Ford but many industrialists wanted to keep wages low?

Gee, that's a tough one. Can I have a hint?

Who do you think were fighting for higher wages? Their right-wing admirers? And how do you think the same factory workers were able to buy Model Ts and many other consumer items?

Henry Ford paid them five bucks a day. Yes. Before Ford was unionized. Because he wanted the best workers, and because he wanted to create a market for his own product. This was, of course, before he had any real competition in that end of the car market. Willys was still upmarket. Chevrolet was way upmarket. Plymouth didn't exist yet. Bad as the Tin Lizzy was, Maxwell was worse.

The UAW wasn't founded until the thirties. The Model T ended production in '27. If that was where you expected your little gotcha reply to go, you had better brush up on the timeline.

Of course. What do you expect when more skill sets are needed? And why would many move to service industry for lower wages?

Once manufacturing jobs are in China, how are wages in the service industry lower? Peanuts>nothing.

Godfather? Think capitalist. Why do you think the bottom line matters most, such that investors will throw employees under the bus to attain even higher profits?

Care to explain what this has to do with the fact that the mafia took control of labor unions?