Would you like to see a discussion between Stefan Molyneux and Ron Paul?

[ClayTrainor]

I personally think that Stefan Molyneux is as much of an intellectual asset to this movement as Ron Paul himself. When looking to establish reason to construct my arguments, I turn to both of these men equally for their input.

The whole an-cap vs minarchist nonsense on this board is starting to become really frustrating because, we're acting as though we're not in near full-agreement.

If we could just get Ron Paul to do an interview with Stefan, much like he does with Alex Jones or Bill Maher, I think it would benefit this forum a great deal. It would bring to the surface that we are really on the same page, in my opinion, and i don't think Ron Paul would find much that he disagrees with Stefan, especially on principle.

I have no doubt that this discussion would be respectful from both sides, and i'm very curious to hear these 2 brilliant minds exchange ideas.

Can we make this happen? I'm sure it'll be no problem to get Stefan to agree to the interview, I'm just not sure how to bring him to Ron Pauls attention.

 

[rp08orbust]

I like Stafan Molyneux, but I don't like his hostility toward religion and his belief that doing business with the state (as Ron Paul does by working in the House of Representatives) makes one guilty of all of the violence committed by the state.

 

[ClayTrainor]

I like Stafan Molyneux, but I don't like his hostility toward religion

I'm not sure if "hostile" is the right word, but i would agree with Stefan in that faith in religion and faith in government have an awful lot more in common than many of us may think, and it needs to be addressed. Individual rights are important, it really doesn't matter if you believe in a supernatural entity, or a collective opinion of a supernatural entity (religion), it matters if you respect the rights of individual human life.

and his belief that doing business with the state (as Ron Paul does by working in the House of Representatives) makes one guilty of all of the violence committed by the state.

Agreed to a certain extent, but it would sure be interesting to hear Ron Paul's response. If Molyneux behaves in a disrespecting manner to Paul, he will lose a lot of his audience and he knows it, so i think this would be handled respectfully, if they do clash on this issue.

 

[tremendoustie]

I like Stafan Molyneux, but I don't like his hostility toward religion and his belief that doing business with the state (as Ron Paul does by working in the House of Representatives) makes one guilty of all of the violence committed by the state.

Yes, that would be my only concern about a discussion. I don't want to hear Stafan make RP out to be an enemy. I'm sure he could be civil, and it would be interesting to be sure, I just know that some ancaps have what I believe to be a false negative opinion regarding political activity -- going so far as to label even liberty oriented efforts as immoral, simply because they participate in the system.

RP, as a 70 year old liberty icon, who's been working at this for decades, shouldn't have to deal with that. He gets enough crap thrown at him by statists.

Now, I would love to hear an intellectual discussion regarding the necessity of the state. Some of you may disagree, but I bet RP would agree with voluntaryism, but simply say that the constitution is the best way to increase liberty in the current environment. I have a hard time imagining him endorsing forced taxation as an ultimate goal, for example.

I am sure Stefan could refrain from attacking Paul's political efforts.

 

[ClayTrainor]

Yes, that would be my only concern about a discussion. I don't want to hear Stafan make RP out to be an enemy. I'm sure he could be civil, and it would be interesting to be sure, I just know that some ancaps have what I believe to be a false negative opinion regarding political activity -- going so far as to label even liberty oriented efforts as immoral, simply because they participate in the system.

RP, as a 70 year old liberty icon, who's been working at this for decades, shouldn't have to deal with that. He gets enough crap thrown at him by statists.

Agreed. If we organize this, whoever talks to Stefan should explain what you've outlined, and just confirm that he won't "accuse" ron paul of anything in a disrespectful manner.

Now, I would love to hear an intellectual discussion regarding the necessity of the state. Some of you may disagree, but I bet RP would agree with voluntaryism, but simply say that the constitution is the best way to increase liberty in the current environment. I have a hard time imagining him endorsing forced taxation as an ultimate goal, for example.

+1

This sums up my feelings almost exactly, and i really think it would eliminate alot of the confusion that is triggering negative emotions on this forum.

 

[BuddyRey]

It would be very stimulating. I think they're both brilliant people!

 

[ClayTrainor]

3 people have voted No, but no one has stated why.... Please state your reason, if you vote no!

I personally think a lot of Anarchists could become more active in the Ron Paul movement, if this discussion were to take place, and we'd have more of a sense of direction as to where the real changes will be made.

 

[rp08orbust]

3 people have voted No, but no one has stated why.... Please state your reason, if you vote no!

I voted "Yes", but I have real doubts about whether Stefan could treat Ron Paul respectfully, given that he describes Ron Paul as Satan and minarchists as his minions in some of his videos.

 

[ClayTrainor]

I voted "Yes", but I have real doubts about whether Stefan could treat Ron Paul respectfully, given that he describes Ron Paul as Satan and minarchists as his minions in some of his videos.

true, but that's just Stefan giving his unfiltered opinion. He didn't act like that with minarchist, Jan Helfield. He absolutely destroyed his logic but, he was not disrespectful. He basically got Jan to admit to his own flaws by questioning him. Ron Paul would not make some of the mistakes Jan did, i'm sure, Ron Paul and Stefan are intellectual equals, i am convinced. Also, Stefan has said no worse things about Ron Paul than some of the Media pundits have, and ron paul still goes on their shows.

I don't necessarily think this should be done in debate format though, just a respectful interview. If stefan disrespects and accuses Ron Paul of hostility, he loses me as a fan, and i know i'm not the only one. Stefans audience would be puny without Ron Paul.

 

[rp08orbust]

How about Stefan Molyneux vs Walter Block? They're both anarcho-capitalists, but unlike Stefan, Walter consistently applies the analysis of individual actions to the state and doesn't condemn participation in victimless state activities such as occupying a seat in the House of Reps.

 

[LibertyEagle]

I personally think that Stefan Molyneux is as much of an intellectual asset to this movement as Ron Paul himself. When looking to establish reason to construct my arguments, I turn to both of these men equally for their input.

The whole an-cap vs minarchist nonsense on this board is starting to become really frustrating because, we're acting as though we're not in near full-agreement.

If we could just get Ron Paul to do an interview with Stefan, much like he does with Alex Jones or Bill Maher, I think it would benefit this forum a great deal. It would bring to the surface that we are really on the same page, in my opinion, and i don't think Ron Paul would find much that he disagrees with Stefan, especially on principle.

I have no doubt that this discussion would be respectful from both sides, and i'm very curious to hear these 2 brilliant minds exchange ideas.

Can we make this happen? I'm sure it'll be no problem to get Stefan to agree to the interview, I'm just not sure how to bring him to Ron Pauls attention.

It's not anarchist vs. minarchist. It seems to be more between those activists who are working to get the Constitution reinstated and those who are trying to thwart that.

Luckily, we now have a forum Mission Statement.

Forum Mission Statement

Inspired by US Rep. Ron Paul of Texas, this forum is dedicated to facilitating grassroots initiatives that aim to restore a sovereign limited constitutional Republic based on the rule of law, states' rights and individual rights. We seek to enshrine the original intent of our Founders to foster respect for private property, seek justice, provide opportunity, and to secure individual liberty for ourselves and our posterity.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=22

 

[ClayTrainor]

It's not anarchist vs. minarchist. It seems to be more between those activists who are working to get the Constitution reinstated and those who are trying to thwart that.

Some could say alex jones is pushing a 911 truth agenda, which could be argued both hurts and helps our movement yet, Ron Paul still goes on his show. Having an interview with Stefan would be no different.

There are many active supporters of Ron Paul that take both the opinions of Stefan and Ron Paul very seriously.

I'm not saying you do, but if you actively oppose a discussion like this, than you are trying to censor the education of the movement.

Luckily, we now have a forum Mission Statement.



http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=22

Agreed, and getting another media interview in no way contradicts that. I'm a huge supporter of Ron Paul, and everything he wants us to support, including a free-market of ideas.

An interview with Stefan would not harm the movement and it could potentially grow our active members. I think a lot of Anarchists would become active if they could hear Ron Paul speak to stefan instead of blubbering self-contradicting minarchists like Helfield. Minarchist positions to be represented better than that.

 

[TheConstitutionLives]

I personally think that Stefan Molyneux is as much of an intellectual asset to this movement as Ron Paul himself. When looking to establish reason to construct my arguments, I turn to both of these men equally for their input.

The whole an-cap vs minarchist nonsense on this board is starting to become really frustrating because, we're acting as though we're not in near full-agreement.

If we could just get Ron Paul to do an interview with Stefan, much like he does with Alex Jones or Bill Maher, I think it would benefit this forum a great deal. It would bring to the surface that we are really on the same page, in my opinion, and i don't think Ron Paul would find much that he disagrees with Stefan, especially on principle.

I have no doubt that this discussion would be respectful from both sides, and i'm very curious to hear these 2 brilliant minds exchange ideas.

Can we make this happen? I'm sure it'll be no problem to get Stefan to agree to the interview, I'm just not sure how to bring him to Ron Pauls attention.

Are you serious? No way. There is no good end that could come from that. Just like no good end came from the Badnarik debate. I came away being on the side of Stefan bc his argument is foolproof. Though I still support Ron at the same time.

Paul isn't a good enough speaker to debate this stuff with Stefan. Not a good idea at all! It would divide, not bring together

 

[ClayTrainor]

Are you serious? No way. There is no good end that could come from that. Just like no good end came from the Badnarik debate. I came away being on the side of Stefan bc his argument is foolproof. Though I still support Ron at the same time.

Paul isn't a good enough speaker to debate this stuff with Stefan. Not a good idea at all! It would divide, not bring together

interesting perspective, i definitely respect what you're saying here.

I personally think it would be very productive, but it shouldn't be an hour long debate or anything like that. Just a polite 10 minute interview, during Stefan's podcast, or something like that.

I'm fucking sick of all the hatred towards voluntarists in here, and i think this could help us clear some things up. we wouldn't oppose ron paul going on Hannity, why would we oppose this?

 

[LibertyEagle]

I'm not saying you do, but if you actively oppose a discussion like this, than you are trying to censor the education of the movement.

I believe it was you who started a poll and asked people to comment if they responded with No. That was YOU, wasn't it?

Or, are you trying to censor my answer?

 

[TheConstitutionLives]

3 people have voted No, but no one has stated why.... Please state your reason, if you vote no!

I personally think a lot of Anarchists could become more active in the Ron Paul movement, if this discussion were to take place, and we'd have more of a sense of direction as to where the real changes will be made.

I voted no bc its two completely different styles. Paul is not the academic philosopher type. Paul is not good with words. This is not a good idea at all and I'm fans of both men. We already know basically what each will say so why pit them against each other?

We have more important stuff to be focused on besides this anyway.

 

[ClayTrainor]

I believe it was you who started a poll and asked people to comment if they responded with No. That was YOU, wasn't it?

Yes, and you flexed the forum guideline muscle as if that's even relevant to the poll question.

I don't need to see your muscles, to understand your opinion.

Or, are you trying to censor my answer?

Not at all. I am requesting the "No's" to answer.

 

[ClayTrainor]

I voted no bc its two completely different styles. Paul is not the academic philosopher type. Paul is not good with words. This is not a good idea at all and I'm fans of both men. We already know basically what each will say so why pit them against each other?

We have more important stuff to be focused on besides this anyway.

I hear you, and respectfully disagree that this would not be a productive discussion.

I don't agree there are more important things than spreading the message whatever way we can, and trying to encourage more people to be active.

Cheers, and thanks for being the first honest "no"

 

[LibertyEagle]

Yes, and you flexed the forum guideline muscle as if that's even relevant to the poll question.

I don't need to see your muscles, to understand your opinion.

I wasn't flexing anything, Clay. I posted it to explain my position. If you didn't need it, that's great, but others might.

Not at all. I am requesting the "No's" to answer.

And I tried to give you an honest answer. I'm kind of wishing now that I didn't reply though.

 

[ClayTrainor]

I wasn't flexing anything, Clay. I posted it to explain my position. If you didn't need it, that's great, but others might.

Alright alright

And I tried to give you an honest answer. I'm kind of wishing now that I didn't reply though.

I apologize for my attitude :o

I must've missed your explanation for "no", however? You think stefan is working against our movement? I personally think his philosophy is almost directly in line with that mission statement, just he goes that 1 extra mile. He reminds me of what jefferson wanted, in a lot of ways.