would adopting green tax shift elect Ron Paul?

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http://www.progress.org/2007/fold537.htm


by Fred E. Foldvary, Senior Editor
Ron Paul, member of the U.S. House of Representatives from Texas, could win the Republican primary election for president and then the general election in 2008 if he adopts a winning policy for the environment.

The economy and the environment are prime political issues in the 2008 American election. Ron Paul has been a strict Constitutionalist and supporter of free markets and private enterprise. Though not one of the top candidates in the polls, he has attracted an enthusiastic and growing following and campaign funds, especially with the use of the Internet. Ron Paul is opposed to the federal income tax and seeks to eliminate special-interest spending and the excessive regulations choking American enterprise. Paul is also opposed central banking and seeks to bring back the gold standard.

But Ron Paul has not taken a firm stand on the environment, particularly on climate change or global warming. He thinks that the global warming projections are overblown. His policy prescriptions are: 1) Reform tort law to allow polluters to be sued; 2) Let the states deal with the pollution within their boundaries and to make environmental agreements with other states.

Ron Paul is correct on the main point. He recognizes pollution as an invasion into others' property, which requires compensation. He is right-on in saying that it was improper for the courts to have ruled against being able to sue polluters.

On taxation, Ron Paul sees excise taxes (taxes on the sale of goods, including tariffs) as a Constitutionally proper way to finance a much smaller federal government. Although Ron Paul opposes new taxes, it would be consistent with his free-market opposition to subsidies and corporate welfare to favor a "green tax shift," replacing income taxes with pollution charges.

Since it would take time and Congressional approval to eliminate income taxes, the income tax could be abolished quickly by replacing individual and corporate income taxes with levies on pollution. A pollution levy is not a tax in substance, but rather a penalty and compensation for polluting. Pollution levies are Constitutional, since like excise taxes, they are indirect, being passed on to the buyers of products, and are not levied directly on the payer as such, but on the pollution.

It's fine to be able to sue polluters, but in some cases, the pollution affects a wide area, including the whole planet. A class-action lawsuit against a polluter such as a coal power plant implies that the polluter compensate all Americans and others affected as an on-going charge. This has the same effect as a pollution levy of the same amount.

Actually, the green tax shift would be even better than a mass tort, because the elimination of the income tax would also eliminate the excess burden of the tax. When wages are taxed, we are hit with two taxes. One tax is the money workers are forced to pay to government. The second tax is the reduction in production, investment, and consumption because of the first tax. The green tax shift would eliminate the excess burden and also replace intrusive and costly regulations such as gasoline additives and engine requirements. If libertarians are serious about eliminating subsidies, they should favor pollution levies that apply the polluter-pays principle to emissions that have millions of victims and that replace punitive taxes on wages and entrepreneurship.

There is not a single candidate in the Republican or Democratic Party primary elections who is advocating the green tax shift. If Ron Paul adopted the shift in his platform and promoted it in his speeches and debates, it would electrify the campaign. Environmentalists would flock to his campaign, cheering. This would put the free-market movement in the vanguard of environmentalism rather than dragging behind.

Even if Ron Paul and other freedom-minded folk are skeptical about the dangers of global warming, the reduction of pollution is good for society and consistent with free-market principles. The green tax shift would help the economy and enhance liberty regardless of how much emissions are contributing to global warming. The first candidate who embraces the green tax shift would have an overwhelming comparative advantage.

Ron Paul! Embracing the green tax shift would make your abolition of the income tax more realistic. Millions of voters are worried about global warming. Rather than dismiss these concerns, adopt them as your own. As the U.N. climate change conference in Bali showed, the tide of history is moving towards a confrontation with the climate change issue. Ron Paul can be in the forefront of the environmental movement and turn it in a free-market direction. Ron Paul! You have the opportunity not just to be elected president but also to turn global environmental policy away from regulations, deception-laden carbon credits, and problematic cap-and-trade policies, to market-friendly pollution levies. Ron Paul! Freedom is green! Make history and adopt the green tax shift!
 
Adopting a green tax would seriously hurt his chances of getting elected.
 
Haha, Ron would tell the people if they want to be taxed for carbon use they can write a check to the Federal Government and see what happens with it. Other wise spend your own money to make the world "green."
 
I agree wholeheartedly with the idea proposed here. Ron Paul's unwillingness to mention green issues is the ONLY MAJOR obstacle to truly throwing myself behind this guy. I believe Ron Paul's innovative position regarding seeing pollution as a transgression on property rights would really help a lot of "on the fencers." The fact of the matter is that global climate change is real, it's here, and there's no need to dogmatically oppose setting things right with regards to our carbon emissions. But we need to INCENTIVIZE green initiatives for companies.. nnd this plan would come closest. Green taxes seem perfectly reasonable to me... my ethical/pragmatic opposition to taxes can EASILY be set aside for something so critical and potentially beneficial, especially if accompanied by the elimination or reduction of many other taxes, as Ron Paul would do.
 
This is a pathetic idea. It is sick.

I would NEVER pay any type of "green" tax. I would let the government imprison me first.
 
I agree wholeheartedly with the idea proposed here. Ron Paul's unwillingness to mention green issues is the ONLY MAJOR obstacle to truly throwing myself behind this guy. I believe Ron Paul's innovative position regarding seeing pollution as a transgression on property rights would really help a lot of "on the fencers." The fact of the matter is that global climate change is real, it's here, and there's no need to dogmatically oppose setting things right with regards to our carbon emissions. But we need to INCENTIVIZE green initiatives for companies.. nnd this plan would come closest. Green taxes seem perfectly reasonable to me... my ethical/pragmatic opposition to taxes can EASILY be set aside for something so critical and potentially beneficial, especially if accompanied by the elimination or reduction of many other taxes, as Ron Paul would do.

The free market is about to take care of the pollution issue.

Ever hear of nanosolar?

http://www.nanosolar.com

They are about to start mass production of thin film solar panels that cost 1/10th of the current price per watt!

There is no need for any type of green tax.
 
I agree wholeheartedly with the idea proposed here. Ron Paul's unwillingness to mention green issues is the ONLY MAJOR obstacle to truly throwing myself behind this guy. I believe Ron Paul's innovative position regarding seeing pollution as a transgression on property rights would really help a lot of "on the fencers." The fact of the matter is that global climate change is real, it's here, and there's no need to dogmatically oppose setting things right with regards to our carbon emissions. But we need to INCENTIVIZE green initiatives for companies.. nnd this plan would come closest. Green taxes seem perfectly reasonable to me... my ethical/pragmatic opposition to taxes can EASILY be set aside for something so critical and potentially beneficial, especially if accompanied by the elimination or reduction of many other taxes, as Ron Paul would do.
Hello, co2 is less than 0.038% of the atmosphere and water vapor is a 20x larger green house gas, and man only causes less than 1/10th of that, any logical person would see man makes no difference in producing a very non poisonous and beneficial gas that makes plants grow which in turn make more oxygen.

GTEMPS.gif

Earth's atmosphere is a layer of gases surrounding the planet Earth and retained by the Earth's gravity. It contains roughly (by molar content/volume) 78% nitrogen, 20.95% oxygen, 0.93% argon, 0.038% carbon dioxide, trace amounts of other gases, and a variable amount (average around 1%) of water vapor. This mixture of gases is commonly known as air. The atmosphere protects life on Earth by absorbing ultraviolet solar radiation and reducing temperature extremes between day and night.

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A lot of huge fans would scream bloody murder and freak out like you wouldn't believe for a whole bunch of reasons. This could only hurt him.
 
Really stupid idea that just shows the lack of understanding of true free markets that now infects the world. In fact, treating pollution as a property rights issue, which it is, will be much more effective than a misdirected, misspent government boondoggle green tax. Wait until a couple of people gain standing to sue the producer of pollution. The change in industry will be amazing and rapid.

And technology will eventually save the day. Just like horse manure never piled up above the houses, ten years from now, everyone will be laughing hysterically that they ever fell for Al Gore's nonsense and the religion of global warming will have no more worshipers at the temple.

I've lived through global cooling, the ozone hole, the depletion of oil and gas resources, the lack of minerals, DDT, Alar and all the other scares of the last fifty years and not one of them was as scary as government and it's tool, taxes.

Fuel cells. Nano solar. Pebble bed nuclear reactors. Natural gas that is plentiful. All of these things and others we can only speculate about (fusion?) will save us from the dreaded exhalation of greenhouse gases. And maybe butt plugs for cows will help too.
 
My thoughts on this whole this can be summed up with this question: how do you commoditize the atmosphere?

I know we can cutup "AIR SPACE" but the atmosphere itself? There are trillions upon trillions upon trillions of air molecules in the atmosphere... how can we establish who owns which atoms?
This problem is further compounded by the fact that the air molecules circulate freely throughout the atmosphere and it is not only impossible to determine who owns what air molecules, but just exactly where these molecules are...

The simple solution in my opinion is to simply legislate that air molecules in US air space are the collective property of all American Citizens/Tax payers. Because CO2 molecules circulate in the atmosphere freely and cannot be easily "tracked" (unlike traditional particle pollution, which tends to get localized), we could further simplify the process by establishing another statute that states that CO2 emissions anywhere effects the entire American atmosphere. If we the Citizens OWN this country and its airspace, don't we have a right to charge "rent" for the space that CO2 emissions occupy in our atmosphere?

Furthermore, from a Libertarian viewpoint, a person (or corporation) is allowed all freedoms and liberties so long as their actions do not harm another. Well it can be argued that global warming/climate change and the CO2 emissions associated with it hurt all Americans, so wouldn't we be justified in placing a fine on people that produce a certain amount of CO2 emissions?

Also note that according to the Constitution all Direct Taxes must be apportioned. As such, I would NEVER support moneys coming from a "Carbon Tax" being used to supplement the Government's budget or subsidize any "environmental alternatives" (like this unbelievably stupid corn ethanol FRAUD) - that money will not be run through a government bureaucracy, and no regulatory agency will pass go or collect $200.
To truly reflect the fact that We The People are the owners of the Air and Atmosphere, all proceeds from my "carbon tax" will be directly apportioned amongst all American Citizens, thus encouraging more free market activity.
 
A Tax is against everything Ron Paul has stood for 30 years. Embracing the idea of a tax would ruin his reputation and would put Ron Paul in the flip flopping category. Any hope he had of winning would go down the tubes by changing 30 years of consistency.
 
Man the brainwashing is good for anybody to consider co2 a problem, chemical pollution yes but co2, LOL, it just blows my mind.

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No way. Plants & trees breathe it - and they provide our oxygen.
Just say "No!" to a tax on breathing.
 
NOTE BEFORE READING: (I am no progressive or moderate; I support return to the Articles of Confederation)


You people think coalitions and bargaining is not necessary to do radical change?

The only way he will get over liberal opposition to elimination of the income tax is the institution of a excise tax on air pollutants. It does not matter if it only raises 1/4th of what the income tax was raising, such would still be acceptable to many progressives.


We have our ideas about what theoretically should be, and what we are to strive for, but there are trade offs, compromises, and coalitions to build along the way.

Libertarians oppose "green taxes".
Libertarians oppose "immigration regulation".

Both compromises are necessary to either securing victory (latter), or securing policy changes (former).


If we had the choice of no elimination of the $1,300,000,000,000 income tax (Not gonna happen unless you get the Dems on board. Flat out not going to happen) or full elimination with the promise of a $250,000,000,000 pollution tax on corporations, would you not take the compromise?

Sorry if you answer no to that question you belong in the think tank, classroom, and blogsphere and not among a movement attempting to lead the nation.
 
I don't think it's such a bad idea. Taxes will be raised somehow. I think we all agree that the income tax sucks, but there's plenty of other taxes: sales tax, property tax, gas tax, cigarette tax, etc. etc. I don't see that a tax based on energy consumption, or carbon emissions is any weirder or worse than those other methods of raising government revenue.
 
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