Why is it so hard to elect pro-liberty people to government?

[Ron Paul in 2008]

I was doing some reading about Paul Nehlan who is challenging House Speaker Paul Ryan in his districts republican primary. I read the most recent poll only gives Nehlan 13 percent of the vote to Ryans like 70+ percent. Paul Ryan represents everything that is wrong with government and America while Nehlan generally represents what is right and our pro-liberty ideas yet he basically has no chance to beat Ryan from the info I read. This isnt the only time when pro-liberty patriots with our ideas lose badly to pro- big government RINO traitors. There is only a handful of good politicians in congress. Why? Why are most of our politicians whores of corporations and against the regular Americans they are supposed to represent?

Please let me know your opinion.

 

[CaptUSA]

Because people only want freedom and liberty for themselves - not for the other guy. They want their lives to be easier.

So when pro-liberty candidates show up and start talking about preserving their favored liberty, people get all excited - until they hear them talk about preserving their neighbor's liberty as well.

The Dems promise to violate the liberty of the "rich" for the benefit of the poor. If you're poor, it's hard not to like the sound of that.
The Reps promise to violate the liberty of the "undesirables" for the benefit of "traditional values". If you want your values promoted by law, it's hard not to like the sound of that.

So liberty candidates are ALWAYS pissing off both sides. Primitive people like shiny things.

 

[Ron Paul in 2008]

Because people only want freedom and liberty for themselves - not for the other guy. They want their lives to be easier.

So when pro-liberty candidates show up and start talking about preserving their favored liberty, people get all excited - until they hear them talk about preserving their neighbor's liberty as well.

The Dems promise to violate the liberty of the "rich" for the benefit of the poor. If you're poor, it's hard not to like the sound of that.
The Reps promise to violate the liberty of the "undesirables" for the benefit of "traditional values". If you want your values promoted by law, it's hard not to like the sound of that.

So liberty candidates are ALWAYS pissing off both sides. Primitive people like shiny things.

Fair points.

 

[euphemia]

I don't think there are very many principled Liberty people.

 

[Ron Paul in 2008]

I don't think there are very many principled Liberty people.

That is what I was thinking. It seems that most people want to game the system and they are in the majority.

 

[dean.engelhardt]

1) Non-liberty candidates get millions from lobbyist.

2) Candidates produces spiffy commercials on TV.

3) Dumb people like spiffy commercials and vote for the candidate.

4) The elected official takes the voter's money and give it to the lobbyist.

5) Go to step 1. and repeat.

 

[ArrestPoliticians]

a lot of people in that district personally know Ryan, and Nehlan might not be as well known.

 

[phill4paul]

Because people only want freedom and liberty for themselves - not for the other guy. They want their lives to be easier.

So when pro-liberty candidates show up and start talking about preserving their favored liberty, people get all excited - until they hear them talk about preserving their neighbor's liberty as well.

The Dems promise to violate the liberty of the "rich" for the benefit of the poor. If you're poor, it's hard not to like the sound of that.
The Reps promise to violate the liberty of the "undesirables" for the benefit of "traditional values". If you want your values promoted by law, it's hard not to like the sound of that.

So liberty candidates are ALWAYS pissing off both sides. Primitive people like shiny things.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to CaptUSA again.

 

[presence]

because government is the negation of liberty

 

[LibertyEagle]

because government is the negation of liberty

No it isn't. A government outside of its constitutional bounds, yes.

Libertinism <> Libertarianism

 

[Ron Paul in 2008]

a lot of people in that district personally know Ryan, and Nehlan might not be as well known.

Yeah. but Ryan is atrocious and its common sense for people to look to alternatives.

What dean.engelhardt said is true but it just implies people are very very stupid and misinformed.

 

[jllundqu]

Fair points.

Just like Trump is going to violate a whole hell of a lot of liberty of many groups of people to please his rabid base... but don't let that stop you from voting for him.

 

[Ron Paul in 2008]

Just like Trump is going to violate a whole hell of a lot of liberty of many groups of people to please his rabid base... but don't let that stop you from voting for him.

How so? Explain.

We still sort of have a constitutional government with checks and balances.

 

[presence]

No it isn't.

Judge Nap

What if personal liberty is the birthright of all persons? What if government is essentially the negation of that liberty?

All government fears liberty. By its nature, government is the negation of liberty.

Ronald Reagan

Concentrated power has always been the enemy of liberty.

Mises

Government is essentially the negation of liberty.

Ron

Governments, by their very nature, notoriously compete with liberty, even when the stated purpose for establishing a particular government is to protect liberty.

The State Is The Enemy of Liberty

 

[jllundqu]

How so? Explain.

We still sort of have a constitutional government with checks and balances.

If you don't listen to the actual words of Trump and can't understand how he is going to screw a lot of people... killing innocent people, raising taxes, massively expanding government, defaulting on debt, patriot act abuse, massive deportation force, take your freaking pick. Trump stands for a lot of things.... fucking liberty aint one of them

 

[Anti Federalist]

How so? Explain.

We still sort of have a constitutional government with checks and balances.

You serious?

This government seizes more assets every year than what is lost to "legitimate" robbery.

This government rules by decree and fatwa.

This government claims it has the right to kill you, just on it's say so alone.

That is just a few definitions of a "hot" tyranny.

To think this government operates anywhere near the bounds and limits of the bill of rights, is naive in the extreme.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

No it isn't. A government outside of its constitutional bounds, yes.

Libertinism <> Libertarianism

Yes it is. Even the "Founding Fathers" believed government to be a "Necessary Evil". You confuse "government" with "lawful and peaceful society". Brush up on Praxaeology, plz.

 

[Ron Paul in 2008]

If you don't listen to the actual words of Trump and can't understand how he is going to screw a lot of people... killing innocent people, raising taxes, massively expanding government, defaulting on debt, patriot act abuse, massive deportation force, take your freaking pick. Trump stands for a lot of things.... $#@!ing liberty aint one of them

I have to do some research on all of this.

Probably the main reason I am voting for Trump is because he was the only one with the balls to seriously talk about illegal immigrants and Muslim refugees. I love that he wants to have a Muslim ban. Hilary Clinton will let the Muslims run wild and will let an insane number of them immigrate here and turn us into Germany while taking our guns rights away to actually stop the Muslims if things get out of control. I also like his trade policies and limiting legal immigration and making it fairer to Europeans. He is the only candidate who will do all of this. With respect to you, I didn't vote for Rand because I get the impression he is a little too politically correct. Rand Paul basically agrees with the left on immigrants and he will not do anything to fix the problem of illegal immigration. That killed my vote for him.

Trump is not perfect. I don't like he supports the federal reserve but what candidate is perfect? I wasn't aware he was for raising taxes or a massively expanding government. Wikipedia says this about taxes:

Trump's campaign's tax plan calls for reducing the corporate tax rate to 15%, concurrent with the elimination of various business loopholes and deductions.[312] Personal income taxes would also be reduced; the top rate would be reduced from 39.6% to 25%, a large "zero bracket" would be created, and the alternative minimum tax would be eliminated, as would the estate tax.[313]

If Donald trump will raise taxes that will take a hit on my support for him. I never heard that he wanted to raise them.

I couldn't find anything about spending, but I doubt he wants to be like Obama and increase spending and the national debt. He criticized Obama the other day for increasing the debt. Everyone with a head knows that increasing sending is bad and I doubt Donalds position is to increase gov spending.

As for massive deportation I thought he just wants to enforce immigrant law on employers who hire illegals like Romney said?

As for the patriot act I cant find anything specific on Wikipedia but I will do my research on that for you.


Also another reason I am voting for Trump is because I believe he will appoint conservative Supreme Court Justices. IF Hilary gets to appoint some liberal justices they will ruin the country.

How will Trump kill innocent people?

 

[Ron Paul in 2008]

You serious?

This government seizes more assets every year than what is lost to "legitimate" robbery.[/quote]

Yeah the IRS is unconstitutional. I wasn't thinking about that when I wrote my post.

This government rules by decree and fatwa.

Example?

This government claims it has the right to kill you, just on it's say so alone.

I never heard that one. Inform me please.

To think this government operates anywhere near the bounds and limits of the bill of rights, is naive in the extreme.

The patriot act, while a violation of our rights was passed by congress. The government does a lot of wrong shit but it is technically legal as it went through congress.

Do you have examples of violations?

 

[jllundqu]

I have to do some research on all of this.

Probably the main reason I am voting for Trump is because he was the only one with the balls to seriously talk about illegal immigrants and Muslim refugees. I love that he wants to have a Muslim ban. Hilary Clinton will let the Muslims run wild and will let an insane number of them immigrate here and turn us into Germany while taking our guns rights away to actually stop the Muslims if things get out of control. I also like his trade policies and limiting legal immigration and making it fairer to Europeans. He is the only candidate who will do all of this. With respect to you, I didn't vote for Rand because I get the impression he is a little too politically correct. Rand Paul basically agrees with the left on immigrants and he will not do anything to fix the problem of illegal immigration. That killed my vote for him.

Trump is not perfect. I don't like he supports the federal reserve but what candidate is perfect? I wasn't aware he was for raising taxes or a massively expanding government. Wikipedia says this about taxes:



If Donald trump will raise taxes that will take a hit on my support for him. I never heard that he wanted to raise them.

I couldn't find anything about spending, but I doubt he wants to be like Obama and increase spending and the national debt. He criticized Obama the other day for increasing the debt. Everyone with a head knows that increasing sending is bad and I doubt Donalds position is to increase gov spending.

As for massive deportation I thought he just wants to enforce immigrant law on employers who hire illegals like Romney said?

As for the patriot act I cant find anything specific on Wikipedia but I will do my research on that for you.


Also another reason I am voting for Trump is because I believe he will appoint conservative Supreme Court Justices. IF Hilary gets to appoint some liberal justices they will ruin the country.

Did you miss the part where he was asked how much he would spend on domestic infrastructure? Reporter said "Hillary wants to spend $250 billion" Trump says, "Well I'll spend at least DOUBLE that!" How would he fund it? You guessed it! DEbt financed!

http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-08-02/trump-says-he-ll-spend-more-than-half-trillion-dollars-on-infrastructure


You are a single issue voter... many are. But you are tripping all over yourself to vote for a big government progressive narcissist egomaniac based on his immigration rhetoric alone and you ignore that real danger that he poses once he grabs the reigns of power. And I'd bet my left nut that Trump won't do a fraction of what he's promised if he's elected, which is a big if.