Why Does Ukraine Seem So Much Like Syria?

[green73]

http://ronpaulinstitute.org/archive...why-does-ukraine-seem-so-much-like-syria.aspx

In Ukraine, US-backed rebels seize weapons from a military depot and begin firing on police -- killing at least ten. The rebel groups occupy and torch government buildings, trade union headquarters, the central post office, and political party headquarters. They occupy local government facilities in other cities and physically attack local authorities. Their goal is to overthrow the elected government.

Reports of rebel reinforcements arriving, with "bulky backpacks near the scene of the latest protests," are suspiciously reminiscent of the "Internet in a Suitcase" project funded by the US government to provide tools for "activists" in regime-change candidate countries. The US has similarly trained and equipped the Syrian rebels.

US-backed rebels are photographed all over Ukraine with weapons, sometimes photographed shooting at police. In Syria, the US covertly provided the weapons and approved Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and other "friends of Syria" to provide even more. A Russian official has accused the US of arming the Ukrainian opposition.

As in Syria, where US Ambassador Robert Ford adopted the rebels from the beginning of the insurrection, US officials have beat a steady path to the Ukrainian rebels to offer their support and assistance. Senator John McCain has even dined with Svoboda Party president Oleh Tyahnybok, shown here in a rather different pose. US Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland was recorded plotting the overthrow and replacement of the Ukrainian government with the US Ambassador to Ukraine, Geoffrey Pyatt.

Pyatt, a man surely devoid of any sense of self-reflection, boldly proclaimed that his recorded plotting to overthrow of the Ukrainian government was merely "helping to build bridges between the government and the opposition.” Of course in a strict sense that is true: he is actively engaged in building a bridge to government power for the Ukrainian opposition.

The Syrian rebels are presented as a moderate group of would-be democrats seeking political reform; Ukrainian rebels are presented as a bunch of pro-Western, pro-EU "peaceful demonstrators." In both cases the real power on the streets has been radical extremists with whom US officials have had considerable contact.

In Syria, President Assad responded early on to the unrest with offers of compromise, including agreeing to hold a constitutional referendum which put an end to generations of one-party rule. In Ukraine, President Yanukovich granted amnesty to violent protesters, rescinded legislation seen as inhibiting protest, fired his government at the request of the opposition and even offered to name opposition leaders to a new interim government. Each move toward compromise and appeasement of the opposition was met with increased violence and escalating demands on the part of the rebels, most recently in Ukraine after opposition leaders met with US and EU officials at a security conference in Munich.

President Obama sternly warns the Ukrainian government against restoring order: “We expect the Ukrainian government to show restraint, to not resort to violence in dealing with peaceful protesters.” He cryptically hinted at possible US escalation, stating: “We’ll be monitoring very carefully the situation, recognizing that, along with our European partners and the international community, there will be consequences if people step over the line."

He similarly warned Syrian president Assad against taking action to defend the country against armed rebels fighting for its overthrow.

Another red line drawn? This time on Russia's doorstep?

Here again is the million dollar question: What would Washington do if rebels intent on overthrowing the Obama regime raided military weapons depots, killed at least ten police officers and wounded dozens of others, set Washington D.C. on fire, occupied key government buildings including the US Capitol complex, and demanded a change in the Constitution favoring their ascendance to power?

Obama warned the Ukraine government to make sure the "Ukrainian military does not step in to resolve issues that could be resolved by civilians.” The US military was called in to quell a far less significant protest in Seattle over the World Trade Organization meeting there in 1999.

The US Capitol area has been on "lockdown" innumerable times over such "threats" as a mentally disturbed woman driving erratically -- who was unarmed and shot dead by police.

One need not side with either opposing group in Ukraine to point out the choking hypocrisy of the US position.

But what is truly remarkable are the many similarities between what has been happening in Syria and what is now happening in Ukraine. It almost seems as if the same hand with the same playbook is plotting both regime change operations...

 

[Zippyjuan]

Peaceful protesters met by a heavy governmental military responce? Yes- it is very similar.

 

[green73]

Zipper's trolling is also similar.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

It's doubtful that the US (or EU or other third parties) are providing weapons in Ukraine (yet). The same covert propaganda, instigating, cheer-leading and money aid is probably going on.

 

[green73]

It's doubtful that the US is providing weapons in Ukraine (yet). The same covert propaganda, instigating, cheer-leading and money aid is probably going on.

Why is that?

 

[Brian4Liberty]

Why is that?

I updated my post to include other options for who might be involving themselves in Ukraine. It doesn't have to be the US doing the dirty work.

As for weapons, there are probably plenty of weapons there already for instigating things. Supplying weapons is more difficult and more traceable (propaganda is cheap and easy). Outside groups would want to wait until open warfare breaks out to supply more weapons. Additionally, they would want the protestors to be on the trailing end of the arms race, to ensure that they look like victims at every stage.

 

[gwax23]

Let things play its course. Both sides of this conflict have legitimate grievances and also have their flaws. Neither side is perfect and we shouldnt automatically support the government just because it is Anti US. Thats a simplistic and narrow minded view.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

Let things play its course. Both sides of this conflict have legitimate grievances and also have their flaws. Neither side is perfect and we shouldnt automatically support the government just because it is Anti US. Thats a simplistic and narrow minded view.

Our "support" here on this forum is meaningless. It's the real power brokers who make things happen.

I don't support either side in this nonsense. I support the people who want to avoid violence, destruction and death.

 

[gwax23]

I don't support either side in this nonsense. I support the people who want to avoid violence, destruction and death.

Which is my position.

 

[green73]

http://ronpaulinstitute.org/archive...ible-for-its-demisebut-we-all-may-suffer.aspx

Ukraine Is Responsible For Its Demise...But We All May Suffer

Written by Daniel McAdams

Friday February 21, 2014

Ukraine is an utter disaster. A few thousand violent rebels in a country of more than 40 million have turned Kiev into a post-apocalyptic hell, where the government is incapable of restoring order, incapable of protecting its own police force from snipers whose well-armed presence in buildings is reminiscent of the Syrian rebels (also backed by the US government).

US Ambassador Geoffrey Pyatt, who was caught on tape plotting the overthrow of the democratically-elected government of Ukraine -- presumably in the name of democracy? -- openly demands that a new government be formed and that the Ukrainian constitution be rewritten to limit presidential power.

This while his own boss, President Obama, has declared that he intends to disregard Congress and instead rule by Executive Order.

Secretary of State John Kerry demands that security forces be removed from the city center immediately and that they cease using force against rebels who are seeking to overthrow the government. He announced sanctions against those in Ukraine who have used force -- on the government side, not among the rebels who shoot and burn alive law enforcement officials.

Witnessing the hypocrisy of US officials who have militarized the police in the United States at every opportunity telling foreign governments they dare not use force against those who seek a violent overthrow of constitutional order, one must ask who is really at fault here.

Is it the US, run by "deep government" interventionist forces who retain power regardless of who the citizens elect? Is it the intolerable EU, whose leadership endlessly lectures the rest of the world about democracy despite being unelected themselves?

Or is it the Ukrainian government itself?

As Paul Craig Roberts writes in a hard-hitting column today:

The Ukrainian and Russian governments allowed this dangerous situation to develop, because they naively permitted for many years billions of US dollars to flow into their countries where the money was used to create fifth columns under the guise of educational and human rights organizations, the real purpose of which is to destabilize both countries. The consequence of the trust Ukrainians and Russians placed in the West is the prospect of civil and wider war.
​

It is hard to argue with PCR about this. Failing to defend sovereignty, the Ukrainian regime has opened the door to the chaos and destruction it now faces. No country -- from the most liberal democracy to the most authoritarian -- would willingly allow foreign powers to subvert the rule of law in attempt to change the regime.

Dr. Roberts comes to this dire conclusion, with which it is also difficult to disagree:

Unless the Russian government and people are willing to accept Washington’s hegemony over Russia, Russia cannot tolerate the coup that the West is preparing in Ukraine. As it is unlikely that Western forces would be a match for the Russian army in its own backyard, or that self-righteous, hubristic Washington could accept defeat, the conflict toward which the corrupt Western governments are driving is likely to turn nuclear.
​

At the centenary of the start of the Great War, the insane neocons who control US foreign policy and their vain EU hypocrite allies are jack-booting us toward a repeat. The brakes are seemingly off the train...

 

[Brian4Liberty]

And on top of this, we have the US media demonizing Ukraine. People like Hannity and Limbaugh are saying "Putin wants to take over the world!", and the ignorant sheeple are eating that slop up like starving pigs. McCain would advocate for attacking Russia if he thought he could get away with it. The only thing stopping him and his puppet masters is Russian nuclear weapons (the MAD philosophy). Mark Levin spilled the beans a bit yesterday when he said something to the effect of "my ancestors came from Russia, but I hate Russia, err, not Russia, but the Russian governments." Butt-hurt Marxist exiles from Russia, who still want to reconquer it after the Marxist revolution went bad on them.

 

[Natural Citizen]

And on top of this, we have the US media demonizing Ukraine. People like Hannity and Limbaugh are saying "Putin wants to take over the world!", and the ignorant sheeple are eating that slop up like starving pigs. McCain would advocate for attacking Russia if he thought he could get away with it. The only thing stopping him and his puppet masters is Russian nuclear weapons (the MAD philosophy). Mark Levin spilled the beans a bit yesterday when he said something to the effect of "my ancestors came from Russia, but I hate Russia, err, not Russia, but the Russian governments." Butt-hurt Marxist exiles from Russia, who still want to reconquer it after the Marxist revolution went bad on them.

Eventually Russia and China are going to say that enough is enough. People aren't so blind as to not see what is happening.

 

[vita3]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmYZ_kWHk3QCIA John Stockwell tells about his knowledge of the Agencies Secret Wars:

This is from 1989.

Ukraine, of course is the latest.

 

[Natural Citizen]

Eventually Russia and China are going to say that enough is enough. People aren't so blind as to not see what is happening.

Foreigners Sell A Record Amount Of Treasurys Held By The Fed In Past Week