Why Do Some Libertarians Support Socialism?

[PAF]

by Jacob G. Hornberger
July 16, 2025


For the life of me, I have never been able to understand why some libertarians support school vouchers. For that matter, I have also never been able to understand how such libertarians have convinced themselves that school vouchers are a libertarian position.

Libertarianism is about freedom and free markets. It is the opposite of socialism. Every libertarian is devoted to freedom and free markets and opposes socialism and socialist measures.

Okay, then why favor school vouchers? School vouchers are nothing but a socialist measure intended to improve the state’s educational system, which is itself a giant socialist project.

School vouchers use the force of the state (that is, taxation) to take money from people to whom it belongs and then give it to people to whom it does not belong. That’s a classic socialist measure. In a free society, people are free to keep their own money and decide for themselves what to do with it. When the state is seizing people’s money in order to give it to other people, that’s most definitely not a free society.

Thus, the question naturally arises: Why do some libertarians, who on the one hand support a free society, simultaneously support a program that is the opposite of a free society? How does that even make sense?

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Article continues:

https://www.fff.org/2025/07/16/why-do-some-libertarians-support-socialism/

 

[CaptUSA]

I don't support vouchers, but damn, Hornberger is insufferable.

How about you worry about yourself, Jacob, instead of what conclusions other libertarians may draw? You know... like a real libertarian??? (SWIDT?)

 

[PAF]

I don't support vouchers, but damn, Hornberger is insufferable.

How about you worry about yourself, Jacob, instead of what conclusions other libertarians may draw? You know... like a real libertarian??? (SWIDT?)

It's called an article for others to read and ponder. You know, an exchange of ideas, while holding *some* accountable?

 

[CaptUSA]

It's called an article for others to read and ponder. You know, an exchange of ideas, while holding *some* accountable?

Nah, it's the circular firing squad stuff of the Libertarian Party. It's a winnowing of field of allowable opinions. It's, "You're not as libertarian as ME!!! waahh!" It's patting himself on the back for being a "true" libertarian, unlike those other fools that only support 99.5% of what he supports.

I left the LP in the 90's because of that nonsense. Insufferable. Seems like you fall into that same trap and want to encourage others to fall into that trap with you. Why? To make yourself feel more pure??

The same sentiment could have been expressed as: "Here's why I don't support vouchers". But no. That's not what this is. It's self-serving cry baby shit attacking other libertarians. And it's why the LP will NEVER be relevant.

 

[acptulsa]

It isn't libertarian. But it's quasi-libertarian in the sense that it attempts to create a market with choices out of a socialist system which doesn't seem to be something people think we can do without.

Certainly it shows some practical promise for ridding us of Soros-corrupted school boards.

 

[Invisible Man]

Based on the tone of what's in the OP, I'm not going to bother reading the rest.

Does Hornberger ever address the obvious reason that he knows full well is why many libertarians support school choice, which is that they believe that, while not perfect, it's an improvement over the status quo?

Because if he doesn't address that point, then the article is stupid and an insult to his readers' intelligence.

 

[PAF]

Based on the tone of what's in the OP, I'm not going to bother reading the rest.

Because if he doesn't address that point, then the article is stupid and an insult to his readers' intelligence.

Well, the only way to find out for certain is to actually read the article, don't ya think? Don't take my word for it! lol

 

[acptulsa]

I left the LP in the 90's because of that nonsense. Insufferable. Seems like you fall into that same trap and want to encourage others to fall into that trap with you. Why? To make yourself feel more pure??

Is this more or less insufferable than Democrats arguing about whether people really need to be forced to pay for gender mutilation? One argues that dysphoria creates a "need" that must be met, and that conforms to their twisted principles; another argues practicalities. All insufferable to me.

But living a principled life is a challenge because of practicalities. In order to find an acceptable balance, or better still, find new, creative and principled solutions to these problems, conversations are useful.

I hate watching Democrats and other socialists make their sausage as much as a Muslim or kosher Jew hates seeing sausage made, unless I can get in on the conversation and burn their whole house down before I'm banned. So in this case, I'm curious to know...

 

[Invisible Man]

Well, the only way to find out for certain is to actually read the article, don't ya think? Don't take my word for it! lol

Gambit declined.

Another way to find out is to ask someone who has read the article.

Since you're not defending him, I'll take that as a no.

 

[CaptUSA]

Is this more or less insufferable than Democrats arguing about whether people really need to be forced to pay for gender mutilation? One argues that dysphoria creates a "need" that must be met, and that conforms to their twisted principles; another argues practicalities. All insufferable to me.

But living a principled life is a challenge because of practicalities. In order to find an acceptable balance, or better still, find new, creative and principled solutions to these problems, conversations are useful.

I hate watching Democrats and other socialists make their sausage as much as a Muslim or kosher Jew hates seeing sausage made, unless I can get in on the conversation and burn their whole house down before I'm banned. So in this case, I'm curious to know...

Are you incapable of reading?? I said I agree with the opinion.

The same sentiment could have been expressed as: "Here's why I don't support vouchers". But no. That's not what this is.

 

[PAF]

Gambit declined.

Another way to find out is to ask someone who has read the article.

Since you're not defending him, I'll take that as a no.

I didn't want to heist hits from fff.org which is why I linked it. But here's a little more to chew on:

​

Moreover, there is reality to contend with. The city of Milwaukee has had a school-voucher program for more than 35 years. It has never led to the separation of school and state in Wisconsin or even just Milwaukee. On the contrary, the city still has an extremely robust public-school system.​

​

Long ago libertarian voucher proponents found it difficult to garner support among people by arguing that vouchers would bring an end to public (i.e., government) schooling. Therefore, they not only stopped using Friedman’s argument, they also began telling people that vouchers would actually improve the state’s educational system through “choice” and “competition.”​

 

[acptulsa]

Are you incapable of reading??

Gee, I didn't think so.

I said I agree with the opinion.

Oh, you don't like Hornberger's style. I'm no great fan myself. Too bad he wasn't blessed with a better one, we might have been spared Chase Oliver's pitiful candidacy.

Pity to throw all us libertarian babies out with the Hornberger bathwater.

 

[Swordsmyth]

Vouchers are not ideal, but they are a step in the right direction.
The government takes the taxes to pay for the education of children, then you can choose between the government deciding how to use it to educate children or parents getting to make the decision.

Naturally losertarians can't allow any steps in the right direction, they must use the currently impossible perfect to block the possible improvement and hand victory to the enemy's status quo.

 

[CaptUSA]

I'll go one step further and explain why I don't support education vouchers... In my state, we have a voucher system that allows parents to send their kids to private schools with taxpayer money. Sounds better? But what happens in practice is that it lowers the quality of the private schools.

First, because you they have to accept some portion of state-approved curriculum. But even worse than that, because the parents who end up sending their kids to these schools are not as invested in their children's education as the rest of us. So much so, that the best private schools will not accept these vouchers.

I do like the idea that parents aren't restricted by zip code. There's also a hope that it will eventually defund bad schools. But as Jacob says, it'd be much better to get government out of the education business entirely. Some see vouchers as an intermediate step, though, and I wouldn't disparage them as much as I would explain my position.

 

[TheTexan]

I don't like taxes

I also don't like public schools

I don't like a lot of things

Most things. Really.

 

[PAF]

Vouchers are not ideal, but they are a step in the right direction.
The government takes the taxes to pay for the education of children, then you can choose between the government deciding how to use it to educate children or parents getting to make the decision.

Naturally losertarians can't allow any steps in the right direction, they must use the currently impossible perfect to block the possible improvement and hand victory to the enemy's status quo.

Here you go again giving "aid and comfort" to republi-crats, just to keep the state alive.

From the article.

Moreover, there is reality to contend with. The city of Milwaukee has had a school-voucher program for more than 35 years. It has never led to the separation of school and state in Wisconsin or even just Milwaukee. On the contrary, the city still has an extremely robust public-school system.​

You may not like Jacob, but he speaks the truth. Which is why he's in my top 10.

 

[Swordsmyth]

Here you go again giving "aid and comfort" to republi-crats, just to keep the state alive.

From the article.

Moreover, there is reality to contend with. The city of Milwaukee has had a school-voucher program for more than 35 years. It has never led to the separation of school and state in Wisconsin or even just Milwaukee. On the contrary, the city still has an extremely robust public-school system.​

You may not like Jacob, but he speaks the truth. Which is why he's in my top 10.

Where did I say it automatically led to a complete separation of school and state?

It's still a step in that direction that makes it easier if people keep pushing forward, and it still gives parents more control of their children's education even if people never take it any farther.

But losertarians can't allow any progress because they are frauds working for the left.

 

[PAF]

Where did I say it automatically led to a complete separation of school and state?

It's still a step in that direction that makes it easier if people keep pushing forward, and it still gives parents more control of their children's education even if people never take it any farther.

But losertarians can't allow any progress because they are frauds working for the left.

A "step in the right direction" - for 35 years??? You're aiding and comforting. So don't bullshit me.

 

[Swordsmyth]

A "step in the right direction" - for 35 years??? You're aiding and comforting. So don't bullshit me.

I just said people have to keep pushing and it's not automatic.
But you insist on making the perfect the enemy of the possible.
Obviously the people there were not going to take it farther yet, but if they do they will be a step closer and they have been that much better off al this time.

 

[PAF]

I just said people have to keep pushing and it's not automatic.
But you insist on making the perfect the enemy of the possible.
Obviously the people there were not going to take it farther yet, but if they do they will be a step closer and they have been that much better off al this time.

All I hear are excuses/"reasons". Now I know why you don't like Jacob, or me. It's because our way, we'd put an immediate stop to your playing around and giving aid and comfort to the democrats.

Remember what I said: No matter how you slice it, Left / Right = Authoritarian. You can't handle the truth.