Who is America's persecuted minority?

[Madison320]

I agree with Ayn Rand that successful businesses are the persecuted minority. Obviously most here disagree and I've argued about it many times. I've mentioned all the laws in place that favor the poor and middle class, like the progressive tax system, or the fact that the employer can get sued for discrimination but not the employee. In my opinion business owners should have the same rights as anyone else. And obviously they shouldn't get special favors. Anyway the debate tends to boil down to subjective arguments on both sides.

So it occurred to me that there is actually an objective way to look at it. If big business is getting a sweetheart deal and the common man is getting screwed, why are poor people lining up at the border by the millions to get in to the US? And why are so many US businesses relocating to other countries? Why do we have a trillion dollar a year trade deficit if it's so great to own a business in the US? It's the same argument I use when arguing about which country has a better system. Leftists will argue that Cuba is a better system than the US, yet people are desperately trying to escape Cuba and come to the US. I think that's a more objective indicator. Where are people relocating voluntarily?

 

[jkr]

me

 

[Dr.3D]

Smart people.

 

[acptulsa]

When totalitarians replace a working system with a dysfunctional one, the wealth doesn't evaporate overnight. There's plenty lying around to loot, and it doesn't stop coming in until they put the brakes on the momentum for some while.

Likewise it takes a good five years for the rest of the world to get the news, and believe it. The U.S. has been prosperous for two centuries. If you offered food, water and mobile wifi you could probably entice thousands into joining your caravan to America three years after the U.S. was overrun by the Visigoths.

You also never seem to differentiate between successful small businesses and profitable multinational monsters. One look at the "pandemic" is enough to prove to anybody that the regulators do.

 

[Madison320]

When totalitarians replace a working system with a dysfunctional one, the wealth doesn't evaporate overnight. There's plenty lying around to loot, and it doesn't stop coming in until they put the brakes on the momentum for some while.

Likewise it takes a good five years for the rest of the world to get the news, and believe it. The U.S. has been prosperous for two centuries. If you offered food, water and mobile wifi you could probably entice thousands into joining your caravan to America three years after the U.S. was overrun by the Visigoths.

You also never seem to differentiate between successful small businesses and profitable multinational monsters. One look at the "pandemic" is enough to prove to anybody that the regulators do.

My point is that that large corporations are leaving the US, so they must not be getting that great of a deal.


I think the owners of small businesses and multinational "monsters" should have the same rights.


That being said I agree that certain businesses are getting bailed out, especially the banks. The banks are basically government entities. And big pharma is looking pretty corrupt.

I think maybe where I differ with most is that I put 100% of the blame on the government. That's an important difference because the cure in my way of thinking is to reduce the size and scope of government. If you blame the business then the cure often is more government, not less. For example threatening big tech with antitrust laws if they don't "act right".

 

[acptulsa]

My point is that that large corporations are leaving the US, so they must not be getting that great of a deal.

They're being allowed to go to their tax haven, and still do business here. Not such a bad deal. Was a time no railroad not headquartered in Texas was allowed to operate there. I'm not saying that was a good policy. I'm just saying those large corporations moving to their tax shelter mailboxes in the Bahamas or wherever have little enough to complain about.

You're pointing to one of the ways big companies are allowed to exploit advantages not available to small ones as "proof" multinationals are put upon.

 

[Madison320]

They're being allowed to go to their tax haven, and still do business here. Not such a bad deal. Was a time no railroad not headquartered in Texas was allowed to operate there. I'm not saying that was a good policy. I'm just saying those large corporations moving to their tax shelter mailboxes in the Bahamas or wherever have little enough to complain about.

You're pointing to one of the ways big companies are allowed to exploit advantages not available to small ones as "proof" multinationals are put upon.

But the trade deficit proves that not enough of those corporations are doing business here.

Why should there even be a corporate tax? All the employees and owners of a corporation are already getting taxed. A corporate tax would be like having a "household" tax. In addition to everyone who lives in a house paying taxes the government would also tax the house as an entity.

Just out of curiosity, how do you feel about the global corporate minimum tax of 15% that was passed a couple of years ago?

 

[acptulsa]

Just out of curiosity, how do you feel about the global...

Remember when we were kids? Global was just a word back then. Now, whenever I see or hear the word "global", these alarm bells go off in my head.

 

[Madison320]

Remember when we were kids? Global was just a word back then. Now, whenever I see or hear the word "global", these alarm bells go off in my head.

Ok, how about banning global corporations from the US?

 

[Occam's Banana]

I agree with Ayn Rand that successful businesses are the persecuted minority.

Ayn Rand did not write an essay entitled "Successful Businesses Are a Persecuted Minority in America".

She did write one entitled "Big Business: America's Most Persecuted Minority" (bold emphasis added).

The first would not be unreasonable. The second is absurd.

 

[Madison320]

Ayn Rand did not write an essay entitled "Successful Businesses Are a Persecuted Minority in America".

She did write one entitled "Big Business: America's Most Persecuted Minority" (bold emphasis added).

The first would not be unreasonable. The second is absurd.

Why? In general a larger business is a sign that it is successful. That's what allows it to grow. So both of those statements are similar.

If big businesses are not persecuted, why are they leaving? If you were the CEO of a corporation, would you choose the US as a location?

I understand why people think like that. Envy is a powerful emotion. Every politician, journalist and hollywood director all portray big business as evil.

 

[RJB]

Why? In general a larger business is a sign that it is successful. That's what allows it to grow. So both of those statements are similar.

If big businesses are not persecuted, why are they leaving? If you were the CEO of a corporation, would you choose the US as a location?

I understand why people think like that. Envy is a powerful emotion. Every politician, journalist and hollywood director all portray big business as evil.

Politicians, journalists, Hollywood, etc. talk out both sides of their mouths.
From their actions they worship large corporations like Pfizer, Raytheon, big tech, MSM... They are hardly oppressed. Quite the opposite.

 

[Anti Globalist]

Individuals that have intelligence.

 

[acptulsa]

Why? In general a larger business is a sign that it is successful. That's what allows it to grow.

What is? The fact that they aren't being persecuted, that they aren't being chased overseas, they're being lured there, and trying to deal them victim cards is ludicrous? That is what allowed them to grow, right?

 

[Madison320]

Politicians, journalists, Hollywood, etc. talk out both sides of their mouths.
From their actions they worship large corporations like Pfizer, Raytheon, big tech, MSM... They are hardly oppressed. Quite the opposite.

My point is that the government gives special favors to corporations but they also take from corporations. On the one hand corporations get special favors like lawsuit immunity for vaccines, bailouts, etc. But on the other hand they face unique obstacles like antitrust laws, corporate taxes, discrimination lawsuits, etc.

So my point is that on the whole corporations must be getting screwed because they are leaving and the evidence is a trillion dollar a year trade deficit. As you're sitting there reading this look around. How much of what you see is made in the US?

 

[Madison320]

What is? The fact that they aren't being persecuted, that they aren't being chased overseas, they're being lured there, and trying to deal them victim cards is ludicrous? That is what allowed them to grow, right?

You're making my point. Corporations are being "lured" to other countries by more freedom, lower taxes, less regulations.