When You Play Their Game & They Get To Set the Rules - You Will Not Win

[Lothario]

Why the game of politics cannot be won by revolutionaries:

 

[LibertyEagle]

True. UNTIL you take over the leadership positions. THEN, the game changes.

We need to duplicate what RP supporters did in Iowa and Missouri, ALL OVER THE COUNTRY.

Keep implementing the strategy.

 

[TheGrinch]

Gotcha. No use in trying. We should all just suffer because they don't even follow their own rules when it doesn't suit them.

Or how about we challenge, take over, sue, prosecute, whatever we have to do to make them play the game the right way... I for one am not going to buy into the idea that we can't stop what they're doing. That's what they want us to think, that it's hopeless. Don't buy into it. Anything is possible if you want it bad enough.

 

[TheTexan]

The question you guys need to be asking, is not how we can make them play by the rules, but rather why are they bending and breaking every rule in the book to oppose us?

 

[TheGrinch]

The question you guys need to be asking, is not how we can make them play by the rules, but rather why are they bending and breaking every rule in the book to oppose us?

Good point (if I'm understanding you correctly). They're breaking the rules because we are in fact a very real threat to their corrupt gravy train. I take it as a compliment that we're winning, slowly but surely.

 

[Sola_Fide]

True. UNTIL you take over the leadership positions. THEN, the game changes.

We need to duplicate what RP supporters did in Iowa and Missouri, ALL OVER THE COUNTRY.

Keep implementing the strategy.

^^^100% agree. The Revolution is not complete until we take over the party apparatus and ensure our own victories.

 

[TheTexan]

Good point (if I'm understanding you correctly). They're breaking the rules because we are in fact a very real threat to their corrupt gravy train. I take it as a compliment that we're winning, slowly but surely.

That's not exactly what I was getting at.

Most of the Republican Party are just everyday people and don't have a "gravy train."

 

[TheGrinch]

That's not exactly what I was getting at.

Most of the Republican Party are just everyday people and don't have a "gravy train."

Ummm, okay then, I confess that I have no idea what point you're trying to make then...

I mean, obviously we're not talking about everyday honest republicans who are the ones who are cheating, lying and bending the rules to maintain and advance their positions of power. Those are the ones you brought up. Obviously those with no alterior motives aren't the ones doing the cheating.

Why else would they lie, cheat, and disenfranchise, other than to reserve their spot and reigns over the corrupt gravy train that is American politics?

 

[TheTexan]

I mean, obviously we're not talking about everyday honest republicans who are the ones who are cheating, lying and bending the rules to maintain and advance their positions of power. Those are the ones you brought up. Obviously those with no alterior motives aren't the ones doing the cheating.

We're trying to take over their positions because they were lying and cheating. Not the other way around. They weren't lying and cheating because we were trying to take over their positions.

And the people in those positions... or at least, those that were in those positions, yes... many of those are "everyday, honest republicans."

 

[TheGrinch]

dp

 

[TheGrinch]

We're trying to take over their positions because they were lying and cheating. Not the other way around. They weren't lying and cheating because we were trying to take over their positions.

And the people in those positions... or at least, those that were in those positions, yes... many of those are "everyday, honest republicans."

What? Seriously, you must jsut be fishing for an argument, because your semantical question of whether they lie and cheat otherwise has absolutely nothing to do with your question, "why are they bending and breaking every rule in the book to oppose us? ". I'll stop trying to figure out what you're thinking and ask you to answer your own question, "why are they bending and breaking every rule in the book to oppose us? ", because I have no idea where you're going here.

And no, by definition an "honest" person doesn't lie and cheat, so I'm not talking about them. I'm not even sure how they got brought up in a discussion of why cheaters are cheating us

 

[TheTexan]

"why are they bending and breaking every rule in the book to oppose us? ". I'll stop trying to figure out what you're thinking and ask you to answer your own question

I've tried telling people the answer to that question but generally they ignore it. I've come to the conclusion that it's not something I can answer for you, but rather something you have to figure out on your own.

Just reflect on that question next time you see every day Republicans (or anybody, really) vehemently opposing freedom. Why.

 

[TheGrinch]

I've tried telling people the answer to that question but generally they ignore it. I've come to the conclusion that it's not something I can answer for you, but rather something you have to figure out on your own.

Just reflect on that question next time you see every day Republicans (or anybody, really) vehemently opposing freedom. Why.

There are very many answers to that question, none of which have to be mutually exclusive:

The media, indoctrination, partisanship, vested interest, fear of change, apathy... There are plenty more reasons why the machine has gotten out of control, but that's all I got off the top of my head... I don't think that this is so balck and white that you can pin down why some oppose freedom (in many cases without even realizing they are). There are tons of different justifications, weak as they may be...

But I don't think that describes as well why the cheaters show no conscience in cheating against us (power can corrupt), but to me better describes why the "sheeple" (for lack of a more respectful term) go along with it.

 

[Travlyr]

Follow the money. It is all about money and power. When one has the power to counterfeit all the money they want, then they will lie, cheat, and break bones to keep that power. They don't even want an audit of what they are up to.... let alone end their reign of terror.

Honest people taking over the Republican Party is a good strategy, imo.

 

[Seraphim]

The premise in the thread title is correct.

If a game of corruption rules the day, playing that game requires corruption to win. If you play and are not willing to be corrupt, you will lose. Lose the game or lose your principles.

Time for an alternative route, folks.

 

[thequietkid10]

wait, because Ron Paul delegates were disenfranchised in one state out of 50, then somehow the system is so corrupt, that we can't possibly make it work. Is that the thesis of this thread?

Do you have a better idea? Go back to before Ron Paul ran for President, when very few people knew what a libertarian was? Go back before the 2012 campaign which lead to party victories in Iowa and Missouri, go back to before people like Amash, and Massie were running for Congress.

 

[WhistlinDave]

When You Play Their Game & They Get To Set the Rules - You Will Not Win

This is a very flawed premise. It assumes that one is playing a game with no referees.

If the other team is cheating, you don't start cheating too, and you don't forfeit the game and walk away. You call attention to the referee and ask them to penalize the other team to make them stop cheating.

We have a referee. It's called the court system. And many people are now asking the referee to penalize the cheating team.

It's very possible that they will not be allowed to cheat any more, even to the point of Federal Marshalls being present at the convention to help keep law and order, to protect delegates from harassment, threats, intimidation, violence, etc.

It's even possible the referee could disqualify the other team entirely, if he feels the cheating is so bad as to warrant it. (Remember we are talking about more than "cheating" here, it is actually election fraud, a Federal crime. If a certain candidate can be proven to be complicit in this crime, it's possible that candidate could forfeit their eligibility for office. How likely that is, I have no idea, but I do believe it's possible.)

 

[heavenlyboy34]

This is a very flawed premise. It assumes that one is playing a game with no referees.

If the other team is cheating, you don't start cheating too, and you don't forfeit the game and walk away. You call attention to the referee and ask them to penalize the other team to make them stop cheating.

We have a referee. It's called the court system. And many people are now asking the referee to penalize the cheating team.

It's very possible that they will not be allowed to cheat any more, even to the point of Federal Marshalls being present at the convention to help keep law and order, to protect delegates from harassment, threats, intimidation, violence, etc.

It's even possible the referee could disqualify the other team entirely, if he feels the cheating is so bad as to warrant it. (Remember we are talking about more than "cheating" here, it is actually election fraud, a Federal crime. If a certain candidate can be proven to be complicit in this crime, it's possible that candidate could forfeit their eligibility for office. How likely that is, I have no idea, but I do believe it's possible.)

Why do you assume the courts will make the correct decision? Courts in this country have a long history of bad decisions. (ETA: plus, a whole bunch of judges-particularly at the federal level-are appointed and, being political appointees, have motive to make biased decisions)

 

[WhistlinDave]

Why do you assume the courts will make the correct decision? Courts in this country have a long history of bad decisions. (ETA: plus, a whole bunch of judges-particularly at the federal level-are appointed and, being political appointees, have motive to make biased decisions)

Because of the sheer number of instances of election fraud, cheating, dirty tactics, whatever you want to call all of it. There are hundreds of plaintiffs and there is a lot of proof.

Also, Judge Carter has a reputation for being a very straight-forward, fair judge, from everything I'm hearing.

Even if he wasn't, I think it would be very hard to refute the mountains of evidence that are going to be presented.

Maybe I'm wrong, and I will readily admit that anything could happen, but given the amount of illegal activity and the amount of evidence proving it, I feel pretty good about our chances of winning this lawsuit, if they can get the case heard before the convention.

 

[Pericles]

That's not exactly what I was getting at.

Most of the Republican Party are just everyday people and don't have a "gravy train."

They are either "true believers" in a neocon sense, or they play the party game of do as your are told, follow orders, and then you may have the opportunity to move up the totem pole.

When the Perot thing started in 1992, it was amazing how many party hacks from both parties jumped in, thinking it was an opportunity for them to jump a few levels by getting in to a political movement early enough ....