U.S. Homicide Rate Hits 51-year Low as Gun Ownership Increased 141%

[Zippyjuan]

"Murder rates in "gun controlled" areas, such as Mexico and South Africa, are more than twice as high as those in the United States. Conversely, countries such as Switzerland, New Zealand, and Israel, which have household gun ownership rates comparable to those in the United States, have much lower rates of crime and violence." - Comment: Gun Control and Economic Discrimination: The Melting Point Case-in Point, 85 J. Crim. L. 764, 770 (1995).

Russia has fewer guns but a higher murder rate (about 2.5 times that of the United States).

Switzerland counts guns that those serving in the military are allowed to take home with them when not on base- minus the ammo which they are required to leave behind (they have mandatory military service). Switzerland also has very tough permit laws on having your own weapon(except for hunting rifles) and requires gun training courses and complete background checks. Automatic weapons are banned. https://www.loc.gov/law/help/firearms-control/switzerland.php

 

[AZJoe]

 

[AZJoe]

"Gun control? It’s the best thing you can do for crooks and gangsters. I want you to have nothing. If I’m a bad guy, I’m always gonna have a gun. Safety locks? You will pull the trigger with the lock on, and I’ll pull the trigger. We’ll see who wins." - Gravino, Salvatore (aka “Sammy the Bull”, underboss of Gambino crime family turned informant).

 

[AZJoe]

Gun control is not about guns. It’s about control!
Gun control is victim control.
Gun control is the visualization of world bondage.
Gun control kills.
Gun control laws only serve to protect criminals.
Guns are no more responsible for killing people than a spoon is responsible for making Michael Moore fat.
Guns don’t kill people, the government does.

 

[Zippyjuan]

In 2014, Russia relaxed some of their gun laws. Budget problems also reduced the number of cops. 2015? http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/russia-sees-2015-crime-rate-spike/531102.html

Russia Sees 2015 Crime Rate Spike

The crime rate in Russia has reversed a longstanding downward trend, jumping sharply in the first eight months of this year by 6.7 percent, according to a top Russian prosecutor.

Almost 1.5 million crimes had been committed in Russia this year by Sept. 1, Deputy Prosecutor General Vladimir Malinovsky said during a talk at the Civic Chamber on Tuesday, the RIA Novosti news agency reported.

Malinovsky said the new figures could not fail to cause alarm, RIA reported.

The increase means that Russia looks set to see an annual rise in the crime rate for the first time in several years, reversing a steady downward trend.

Malinovsky highlighted a particular jump in the number of crimes committed by people under the influence of alcohol or illegal drugs, RIA reported.

There were 2.1 million crimes reported in Russia in 2014, 2.2 million in 2013 and 2.3 million in 2012, according to statistics from the Prosecutor General's Office.

In July, President Vladimir Putin signed a decree reducing the number of police in the country by 10 percent to a little over one million people. Russia is in the throes of an economic crisis caused by an oil price collapse and international isolation over Ukraine, which has driven a rise in poverty, falling real incomes and reduced government spending.

 

[AZJoe]

the libertarian argument about what would happen to America in 50, 100, or 200 years if we got rid of guns overpowers all of the statistics. A lot of people only care about what happens to America in their lifetime though, and aren't willing to think about the country our grandchildren will live in.

Excellent point.

"Genocide is a human rights violation that dwarves all other crimes. If we are to be serious—and not merely sanctimonious—about human rights, then we must be serious about eradicating genocide. Jay Simpkin, Aaron Zelman, and Alan M. Rice have shown that a well-armed population which is prepared to resist is much less likely to be murdered by its government than is a disarmed population. If the people of the world were better armed, many fewer people would be the victims of genocide. …​

[There are] three key preconditions of genocide: hatred, government, and gun control. Without any of these three elements, genocide is not possible."​

David B Kopel, Book Review: Lethal Laws. by Jay Simpkin, Aaron Zelman, & Alan M. Rice, Jews for The Preservation of Firearms Ownership, Inc., 15 N.Y.L. Sch. J. Int’l & Comp. L. 355, 381-382 (1995).​

 

[TheCount]

In 2014, Russia relaxed some of their gun laws. Budget problems also reduced the number of cops. 2015? http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/russia-sees-2015-crime-rate-spike/531102.html

Too much else going on there to try to draw conclusions. Their currency collapsed, their economy is in the shitter, and they have 101 flavors of cultural and societal problems going on.

 

[osan]

...Homicide Rate...
...homicide rate...

...homicide rate...

...homicide rate...

...homicide rate...

...homicide rate

...homicide rate...

...homicide rate ...

...homicide rate...

... homicide rates...


...homicide rates...

...homicide rates...

While I applaud the spirit of the article, the author fails in that he keeps referring to the homicide rate, rather than the murder rate, which is the salient measure here.

Homicide subsumes murder, obviously. If I kill a man attempting to kill me, it is a homicide but not a murder because I have not committed a crime. Remove non-criminal homicide from the figures and the rate goes down appreciably. Remove the criminal acts committed relative to illegal drug trafficking activity and the rate plummets below 1.0. I did this analysis in '14 or '15 using conservative estimates and assumptions and the result was a rate of homicide lower than that of murder in the UK. It's the damned drug war that accounts for the vast majority of murders in the USA.

And yet the media paints a portrait of a nation consuming itself in the flames of murderous violence. Yeah, right.

 

[osan]

According to the anti gun nuts somebody stockpiling anybody with guns = mass shooter.

Fixed that fer'ye.

 

[osan]

Which still does not refute the claim that fewer people own weapons than say 20 years ago.

If you believe this to be the case, you are smoking way too much dope and should lay off. Gun ownership is on the rise, proportionally speaking. People who have in the past been reticent to have a firearm are now becoming first time buyers. Even the marginally stoopid among us are beginning to see the writing on the bathroom wall and are adjusting their world views to something of a more rational timbre.

The horde of those actually made of stupid, a la George Takei, will go to their graves in that state of childish idiocy to which they are so faithfully married. Behold, the truth of such people:

Half of the record number background checks were for permits not new gun purchases. If I buy my third gun I get a background check. It does not translate to all the background checks being first time buyers.

If I buy 20 guns at once, one background check.

One third to one half is a decline from what it once was.

I so very seriously doubt that.

 

[osan]

so do Cops [love gun control]. /redundant

Depends on where you are. For example, this morning I was at the area where the 6' culvert washed away in Elkview. A Kanawha deputy was there and so was Joe Manchin. I had my sidearm with me, openly. Nobody, including Manchin (surprised me, actually), gave it a second look and I was standing not 10 feet away from the Senator from West Virginia.

You all know I am no fan of police and why, but I have to give breaks where due even for them. With the exception of Beckley, the police in WV are among the WAY cooler. They are not nervous around people with guns, typically... at all, and many will tell you that they are glad to see people carrying. I was at a community garden on the shitty West End of Charleston 2 weeks ago and a cop pulled up, asked if we'd seen a guy who'd been involved in an "altercation". He looked at my sidearm and said he was glad I had it because the person in question was something of bad news, and I can tell you that for a pint-sized city, there are some dangerous assholes in Charleston.

Compare with the ultra-twitchy cops in places like OH, NJ, NY, CA, and Ill-Annoy. Not all LEOs are complete assholes, which does not mitigate the wretchedness of that which they are called upon to do: enforce "law" that stands in gross and egregious violation of human rights. But I will not go 100% condemning them all as humans... only 99%.

 

[pcosmar]

Depends on where you are. For example, this morning I was at the area where the 6' culvert washed away in Elkview. A Kanawha deputy was there and so was Joe Manchin. I had my sidearm with me, openly. Nobody, including Manchin (surprised me, actually), gave it a second look and I was standing not 10 feet away from the Senator from West Virginia.

You all know I am no fan of police and why, but I have to give breaks where due even for them. With the exception of Beckley, the police in WV are among the WAY cooler. They are not nervous around people with guns, typically... at all, and many will tell you that they are glad to see people carrying. I was at a community garden on the $#@!ty West End of Charleston 2 weeks ago and a cop pulled up, asked if we'd seen a guy who'd been involved in an "altercation". He looked at my sidearm and said he was glad I had it because the person in question was something of bad news, and I can tell you that for a pint-sized city, there are some dangerous $#@!s in Charleston.

Compare with the ultra-twitchy cops in places like OH, NJ, NY, CA, and Ill-Annoy. Not all LEOs are complete $#@!s, which does not mitigate the wretchedness of that which they are called upon to do: enforce "law" that stands in gross and egregious violation of human rights. But I will not go 100% condemning them all as humans... only 99%.

I respect,(or don't) individuals.
(observations,less than a year here)
Local Sheriff seems cool. some of the deputies, mixed bag. Have met and conversed with local Justice of Peace (Judge)

Small county, Rural,, and I have been accepted here it seems..
The "system" is horribly bent. Even good folks who work with it know that.

The need is a total reboot,, but none who knows what that entails wants to be that guy.

I don't,, and am a bad candidate for such.