With the selection of Donald Trump as the Republican Party’s presumptive nominee, a lot of disgruntled anti-Trump conservatives have been looking for a new place to call home. Some people think that the Libertarian Party, which is the only third party in the country likely to have ballot access in all 50 states come the fall, could be that new home. The current front-runners for the Libertarian nod are 2012 nominee and former two-term governor of New Mexico Gary Johnson, antivirus pioneer and potential crazy person John McAfee, and longtime Libertarian Austin Petersen. I spoke with Nicholas Sarwark, the chairman of the national Libertarian Party’s executive body, about what his party’s nominating process will look like, what Trump’s presumptive nomination means for Libertarians' political fortunes, and the possibility that his party might be taken over by an anti-Trump faction of the GOP, as has been rumored. This transcript has been edited for length and clarity.
Jeremy Stahl: In the Washington Times on March 30 you were quoted as saying that the party had been approached by candidates who had dropped out of the “old party races about running on the Libertarian Party Ticket," and that you had discussed logistics with them. How would that process work?
Nicholas Sarwark: [Here are] the requirements to be our candidate: You have to be a member of the Libertarian Party and you have to be nominated by at least 30 delegates [at our Memorial Day] convention [in Orlando, Florida]. None of our delegates are bound in the way that the Republican or Democratic delegates would be. So everybody gets to vote their conscience. Basically, we’re all superdelegates.
Historically, how much control over the process and control over individual delegates has the party had? Like, could you call up 30 delegates tomorrow and get me nominated?
So the national party actually has zero control over the delegates aside from that I am a delegate from Arizona so I have my own vote. Could I probably twist the arms of 30 people if I wanted to? I could. I just think that would be an improper use of my position of chair. So I’ve been very neutral in this race, refusing to endorse or back any particular candidate for the presidency.
It sounds like it’s incredibly open.
We have both a very open process and a very difficult process at the same time. A Mitt Romney, or a Rick Perry, or a Tom Coburn, or anybody could join the party, probably get on star power alone 30 people to nominate them, but then you have to get a majority of close to 1,000 Libertarians to decide that you’re Libertarian enough for them. It’s that retail side that really is our best protection against any sort of takeover.
How possible do you think such a takeover would be? Do you think any element of the party would be amenable to it, and do you think there are reasons to be amenable to it? It seems to me that one reason to be open to a takeover is—depending of course on ideology lining up and being able to convince delegates and all those factors—that a big-name candidate like, say, a Mitt Romney could get you the 15 percent in national polls that you need to get on the general election debate stage with Trump and Clinton.
That theory and that scenario would probably be attractive to some number of delegates. I don’t think it would be attractive to a majority of delegates sufficient to get the nomination, precisely because if you go back to ‘08 we nominated Bob Barr, a former congressman, with exactly those thoughts … and it didn’t work out that way. We actually got lower vote totals compared to other Libertarian candidates with less résumé.
Has Bill Kristol, who has taken it upon himself to lead the anti-Trump third party movement, reached out to you about this type of merger?
Mr. Kristol has not reached out to me. Although, he can probably find me. I mean you found me. It’s not that hard.
Since you told the Washington Times on March 30 that you had former major party candidates reaching out to you expressing interest in the Libertarian nomination, have anymore reached out, or have you heard more from the same people?
Not to run, no. We’ve had some high level defections [such as] Mary Matalin switching her voter registration. Our daily membership numbers, like dues paying card-carrying numbers, have doubled and almost tripled. Donations are way up.
But I have not seen the interest in trying to come in as some sort of white knight into the convention. This is my kind of personal take on it: The Never Trump people, while they’re very serious as far as how they feel, they’ve never been serious in terms of getting anything done. We’ve been doing this for 45 years and we understand the logistics of how you get 50-state ballot access. And there was not a single move from a Kristol, or an [Erick] Erickson, or a Romney, or anybody to do any of the things that would be necessary, and the Texas deadline [for an independent run] was [Monday]. There’s no there there, and that’s going to be the hard reality for all the Never Trump people, and eventually all the Never Hillary people. If you’re Never Trump and you're Never Hillary, the Libertarian Party is going to present you the only option for every American in this country. So you can pick it or you can not, but this idea that you’re going to have some sort of quixotic bid from Romney or something as an independent, it’s just—it’s batshit basically.
Yeah, ballot access is the main issue.
The sweet irony is that it’s the very Republicans that are currently gnashing their teeth who set up these horrible ballot access barriers to try to suppress the Libertarian Party in the first place. So I hope they’re enjoying that.
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