Subforum open for State Candidate PAC talk

[AuH2O]

Yup - http://www.opensecrets.org/527s/527cands.php?cycle=2008

Matter of fact, I don't think some of that boilerplate PAC language applies to 527's.

 

[malkusm]

Yup - http://www.opensecrets.org/527s/527cands.php?cycle=2008

Matter of fact, I don't think some of that boilerplate PAC language applies to 527's.

Ok, so perhaps I used a poor example; nevertheless, I don't see the legal basis for your claim that we would necessarily need to file with the FEC to run a multi-state, non-federal PAC. 527 might be a completely different story, as I understand that they are governed by different regulations.

I'll try to dig up a better example sometime today.

 

[AuH2O]

Ok, so perhaps I used a poor example; nevertheless, I don't see the legal basis for your claim that we would necessarily need to file with the FEC to run a multi-state, non-federal PAC. 527 might be a completely different story, as I understand that they are governed by different regulations.

I'll try to dig up a better example sometime today.

I work for a PAC, and am pretty experienced with the administrative and legal issues. I can't think of an example that suits your needs, but maybe you can dig one up. Still, I highly suggest you speak to a lawyer before you get too far down the rabbit hole.

Even if something exists in the way you want, you will be drowning in a sea of compliance paperwork. It will be death by a million papercuts, perhaps literally.

 

[malkusm]

I work for a PAC, and am pretty experienced with the administrative and legal issues. I can't think of an example that suits your needs, but maybe you can dig one up. Still, I highly suggest you speak to a lawyer before you get too far down the rabbit hole.

Even if something exists in the way you want, you will be drowning in a sea of compliance paperwork. It will be death by a million papercuts, perhaps literally.

We plan on consulting with a lawyer that has experience dealing with politics/campaign finance before we do anything, certainly. That experience might completely change the way I envision this being structured.

The way I am reading all of the laws to this point, though, the paperwork is not so bad. The FEC clearly states that a PAC must file after raising or contributing $1,000+ for federal candidates, which would not apply. At that point, it boils down to following the laws of each state that we plan to operate in. The paperwork involved there is typically an initial registration (within 10-14 days of receiving money, depending on the state), pre-election disclosures, and annual disclosures (both of which must be filed regardless of whether we donate to a candidate in that state in that election or not). Most states require that the treasurer in each state would need to be a registered voter in that state. So, essentially we would need a dedicated volunteer in each state to be responsible for filing this paperwork; but, if the PAC as a whole keeps an itemized record of receipts and expenditures, it would be a matter of distributing that info to the state treasurers for their reporting.

The thing is that this is rather unprecedented. Most PACs either don't bother with state candidates, or deal with them as an afterthought to the federal candidates they support. State PACs are mostly single-state PACs. There isn't a lot of hybrid, multi-state-yet-not-federal action.

You should join us on the conference call Sunday evening - I'm sure you would have valuable insights on the whole process. I readily admit that I might be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time :o

 

[malkusm]

From the FEC website:

Those interested in Federal campaign finance laws, and their relationship to State provisions, should contact the Commission's Information Division at 202/694-1100 or toll-free at 800/424-9530.

I'm at work and then class all day. Maybe someone here could give them a call and kind of summarize what we're talking about, and see if they could clarify.

 

[AuH2O]

We plan on consulting with a lawyer that has experience dealing with politics/campaign finance before we do anything, certainly. That experience might completely change the way I envision this being structured.

The way I am reading all of the laws to this point, though, the paperwork is not so bad. The FEC clearly states that a PAC must file after raising or contributing $1,000+ for federal candidates, which would not apply. At that point, it boils down to following the laws of each state that we plan to operate in. The paperwork involved there is typically an initial registration (within 10-14 days of receiving money, depending on the state), pre-election disclosures, and annual disclosures (both of which must be filed regardless of whether we donate to a candidate in that state in that election or not). Most states require that the treasurer in each state would need to be a registered voter in that state. So, essentially we would need a dedicated volunteer in each state to be responsible for filing this paperwork; but, if the PAC as a whole keeps an itemized record of receipts and expenditures, it would be a matter of distributing that info to the state treasurers for their reporting.

The thing is that this is rather unprecedented. Most PACs either don't bother with state candidates, or deal with them as an afterthought to the federal candidates they support. State PACs are mostly single-state PACs. There isn't a lot of hybrid, multi-state-yet-not-federal action.

You should join us on the conference call Sunday evening - I'm sure you would have valuable insights on the whole process. I readily admit that I might be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time :o

I understand what you are saying, but the PAC has to "exist" legally with some level of government. By filing with all these various states as you describe, what you are doing sounds like creating individual state-level PACs. The reason why I think you need to file federally to operate in individual states from a single fund relates to the varying fundraising and expenditure limitations, state-to-state. For example, a PAC in one state may accept unlimited corporate contribution, in another corporate gifts may be outlawed, and in a third, all contributions may be capped at $5,000. A single organization making expenditures in those states would face some really hairy compliance issues.

 

[malkusm]

I understand what you are saying, but the PAC has to "exist" legally with some level of government. By filing with all these various states as you describe, what you are doing sounds like creating individual state-level PACs. The reason why I think you need to file federally to operate in individual states from a single fund relates to the varying fundraising and expenditure limitations, state-to-state. For example, a PAC in one state may accept unlimited corporate contribution, in another corporate gifts may be outlawed, and in a third, all contributions may be capped at $5,000. A single organization making expenditures in those states would face some really hairy compliance issues.

I think the compliance issues aren't as hairy as anticipated. If we operate in the states that I list in the thread stickied at the top of this sub-forum, the most restrictive state cap on contributions to the PAC is $5,000. So we would operate in accordance with the most restrictive law, and any state where the laws are more restrictive, we don't operate in. We would do the same regarding PAC-to-PAC transfers. Additionally, I don't anticipate any corporate, union, or party-connected organizations getting behind us and funding us to any extent. If it ever came up, we could evaluate the legality of it at that time and consult with someone as needed....just doesn't seem like the most pressing issue starting out.

On paper, we *would* be a separate PAC in each state. But unless the state disallows the PAC to be located and funded out-of-state (such as Alaska), we can operationally exist as a single entity.

Again, this is all my understanding, which I readily admit, could be incorrect. I think that if we can call that number I listed above to speak to someone at the FEC regarding what we're trying to do, that would be a good first step...but I think we most certainly need to clear it with a lawyer, as you've mentioned.

 

[Jordan]

All I know is the FEC has the BEST on-hold music.

 

[malkusm]

By the way, I wanted to add - your skepticism and questions are appreciated on my end. I think we all want this to work, and to run smoothly.

 

[malkusm]

All I know is the FEC has the BEST on-hold music.

Thanks for calling - report back with what you find. (Assuming there's anyone competent working in there.)

 

[Jordan]

Thanks for calling - report back with what you find. (Assuming there's anyone competent working in there.)

I'm beginning to wonder if anyone is on staff.

edit: According to the lady at the FEC, as long as this PAC does not get involved in Federal Elections, they don't want our paperwork. However, she couldn't answer to any state level questions, said to contact SoS offices.

 

[malkusm]

I'm beginning to wonder if anyone is on staff.

edit: According to the lady at the FEC, as long as this PAC does not get involved in Federal Elections, they don't want our paperwork. However, she couldn't answer to any state level questions, said to contact SoS offices.

This has been my impression from the website. They refer to "nonfederal" organizations only in how they may deal with "federal" PACs, and does not have any info with "nonfederal" candidates. I'm about as positive as I can be that as long as we don't associate with federal candidates, we have nothing to worry about from the FEC.

 

[Legend1104]

This is a finance related/popularity type question.

I was looking up statistics for my state house district for the last major contended election. Here are some of the results:
Encumbent (winner) garnered 2,664 votes
challenger (loser) garnered 1,170 votes
Encumbent spent around: $6800
Challenger spent around $7500

Based just off of the last election the winner won with over twice the votes and spent less money. The encumbent was running for a second term. Keep in mind that this is in MS so I am sure it would be much higher money spent in different places.

I am mildly considering running (if given PAC support) but what level of financing would the group be pulling in. Obviously, a candidate in my situation would need at least 6k (more in other places). I think that the PAC would have to have a large amount of supporters to run a decent number of candidates and be able to fork over a goodly amount. Granted some of those candidates might bring in their own money, but many may not be able too.

Also, would this PAC be mostly internet based and/or what other groups of people would we be trying to get support from, and in what method?

Furthermore, I think we should seriously consider developing some type of guides, information, resources, and support for running a successful election because frankly I am clueless as how to run.

Just some general inquires I have been having.

 

[malkusm]

This is a finance related/popularity type question.

I was looking up statistics for my state house district for the last major contended election. Here are some of the results:
Encumbent (winner) garnered 2,664 votes
challenger (loser) garnered 1,170 votes
Encumbent spent around: $6800
Challenger spent around $7500

Based just off of the last election the winner won with over twice the votes and spent less money. The encumbent was running for a second term. Keep in mind that this is in MS so I am sure it would be much higher money spent in different places.

I am mildly considering running (if given PAC support) but what level of financing would the group be pulling in. Obviously, a candidate in my situation would need at least 6k (more in other places). I think that the PAC would have to have a large amount of supporters to run a decent number of candidates and be able to fork over a goodly amount. Granted some of those candidates might bring in their own money, but many may not be able too.

Also, would this PAC be mostly internet based and/or what other groups of people would we be trying to get support from, and in what method?

Furthermore, I think we should seriously consider developing some type of guides, information, resources, and support for running a successful election because frankly I am clueless as how to run.

Just some general inquires I have been having.

Excellent questions. I believe all of our prospective candidates here should read this thread, and/or pick up the book that he is talking about in this thread: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=176003&highlight=run+office

Depending on the number of candidates we would be supporting and the amount of money we would have, we would be able to allocate some amount to your campaign. However, it certainly shouldn't be counted upon as your only source of funds. GunnyFreedom spent about $20,000 on his race, which he narrowly won this year. He got a large chunk of that just by typical campaigning - going door to door, holding events, and being unafraid to ask known supporters to give financially.

As for whether we would be mostly internet based: Yes, but I'd certainly like to do some outreach and work with groups like the 10th Amendment Center and others. If we have the resources, we might do some more traditional fundraising of our own. We'll see when the time comes.