Stef Molyneux's Critique on Zeitgeist: Moving Forward

[eOs]

 

[Andrew-Austin]

Excellent analysis as always from him. Sounds like the film has some positives, but also has some ridiculous negatives, such as the planned obsolescence conspiracy, which I agree sounds like they have not gotten close to reading the opposition and might as well not know Austrian Economics exists... Which would be kind of strange that the film makers hadn't heard of it considering that A-Econ shares a great deal of their perspective on the banking system. And damn they even mention Mises and completely misrepresent him?

Marxism with robots! lol

 

[Captain America]

This movie is all over the place.

 

[dannno]

He says the same thing at the end that i say to my roommate.. they should totally go for it, and try it if they want. Of course it will only work in a free society where they are allowed to go off and live on their Zeitgeist cloud, with no money, "begging for their porridge each morning from HAL" or something along those lines..

But I also try and point out the same things he does about planned economies and misinterpretations of the free market.

 

[QueenB4Liberty]

I liked most of that.

Somehow I'm beginning to think that the people at the Venus project will do whatever they can, peaceful or not. They have to have all of the world's resources to do this stuff. They don't really have any other choice but to do it (get there) by violence.

 

[Flash]

I liked most of that.

Somehow I'm beginning to think that the people at the Venus project will do whatever they can, peaceful or not. They have to have all of the world's resources to do this stuff. They don't really have any other choice but to do it (get there) by violence.

There's a violent element within the Venus Project. They view natural resources as the common heritage of Humanity. So some of them DO support taking resources from their neighbor's property to share with the community.

 

[sharpsteve2003]

Great Review

 

[Reason]

Very happy that he made a video on this.

 

[__27__]

 

[Wren]

I used to support the venus project until I researched it more thoroughly. I remember listening to Peter Joseph during one of his radio briefings where he answers questions and there was one particular question where a viewer asks if there will be police implemented in this new society? How else do they plan on detaining violent offenders? Throw them free flowers? Anyway, peter's answer shocked me. He said that he didn't even KNOW whether or not there would be a police system needed in order to temporarily detain people. He said something along the lines of "Well, I guess in those instances, there would need to be some sort of police system implemented". So the guy making the film isn't even aware of all the full details and whether or not there would need to be involuntary force implemented in this new society.

Another point that drew me away even further: Everything needs to be shared. They do not recognize property rights and believe people should have access to everything like a public library but should return whatever they used back to where it came from. Isn't this basically communism with a different twist?

But anyway, I enjoyed Addendum for awhile until I researched it more thoroughly and the 3rd one is great in the beginning when they go into detail about nature vs. nurture, but it all goes downhill from there. Stef gave a great review here, it would be interesting to see him debate peter joseph.

 

[Vessol]

Stefan's review follows very closely to what my thoughts were when I watched it.

I, however, do have reservations as stated before me if their system is truly voluntary. Especially considering their complete disregard for property.

 

[Feeding the Abscess]

As this series of movies goes on, the time that the shit hits the fan strikes earlier and earlier. By the time the fourth movie comes around, methinks it'll be a visual and aural sewer.

 

[dannno]

Roommate watched the review and disagreed with all of the rebuttals.

His primary concern:

Competition leads to state power

 

[hazek]

Tell your roommate to join one of Stefs live shows and debate him on it. Stef is always willing to listen and debate and be proven wrong.

 

[akforme]

I used to support the venus project until I researched it more thoroughly. I remember listening to Peter Joseph during one of his radio briefings where he answers questions and there was one particular question where a viewer asks if there will be police implemented in this new society? How else do they plan on detaining violent offenders? Throw them free flowers? Anyway, peter's answer shocked me. He said that he didn't even KNOW whether or not there would be a police system needed in order to temporarily detain people. He said something along the lines of "Well, I guess in those instances, there would need to be some sort of police system implemented". So the guy making the film isn't even aware of all the full details and whether or not there would need to be involuntary force implemented in this new society.

Another point that drew me away even further: Everything needs to be shared. They do not recognize property rights and believe people should have access to everything like a public library but should return whatever they used back to where it came from. Isn't this basically communism with a different twist?

But anyway, I enjoyed Addendum for awhile until I researched it more thoroughly and the 3rd one is great in the beginning when they go into detail about nature vs. nurture, but it all goes downhill from there. Stef gave a great review here, it would be interesting to see him debate peter joseph.

Peter Joseph annoys the hell out of me and I haven't had the desire to see anymore of his films past the first Zeitgeist.

He did an interview about how he hates secrets and likes to divulge them, yet he loves his secrets, and wouldn't discuss some of them and was pissed at the interviewer for trying to find them out.

 

[Fredom101]

As this series of movies goes on, the time that the shit hits the fan strikes earlier and earlier. By the time the fourth movie comes around, methinks it'll be a visual and aural sewer.

Exactly. The first one was pretty solid throughout, the second one screwed the pooch about 1 hour in, this one took about 40 minutes before all the nonsense about the free market started! I'm sure the 4th one will start off with someone saying that the free market=slavery!

 

[Fredom101]

Stef gave a great review here, it would be interesting to see him debate peter joseph.

Stef did a critique on ZG Addendum, and he used some ad hominem attacks on Peter Joseph. PJ then made a video responding to Stef's comments, and unfortunately PJ looked better even though he was wrong, because he focused on Stef essentially calling him "retarded". It's worth searching youtube for these videos, because Stef's critique is factually correct, but he really screwed up by using the personal/ad hominem attacks.

 

[ClayTrainor]

Stef did a critique on ZG Addendum, and he used some ad hominem attacks on Peter Joseph. PJ then made a video responding to Stef's comments, and unfortunately PJ looked better even though he was wrong, because he focused on Stef essentially calling him "retarded". It's worth searching youtube for these videos, because Stef's critique is factually correct, but he really screwed up by using the personal/ad hominem attacks.

Did he actually attack PJ? As I remember it, he was attacking the ideas as being retarded, not any person in particular. Maybe I'm mistaken.

Either way, he could've articulated that in a bit more respectful manner for sure. It definitely did give them an excuse to just write off his valid arguments without thinking about them.

 

[ClayTrainor]

Roommate watched the review and disagreed with all of the rebuttals.

I'm shocked.

His primary concern:

Competition leads to state power

The hubris in that statement is astounding. The logical conclusion of what he said, is something I've always suspected of Zeitgeisters. They don't want any competition on their ideas. "My ideas are right, I understand how to solve all of the worlds problems, and all of your competing ideas are wrong and shouldnt even be allowed to exist."

How are we supposed to determine the effectiveness of ideas and resources, without somethign to compare them to? Comparison is a competition.


How exactly do they plan on eliminating the competitive nature of humans and technological advancement? I don't see how it's possible without coercion/statism....

 

[dannno]

How are we supposed to determine the effectiveness of ideas and resources, without somethign to compare them to? Comparison is a competition.

Good argument. They'll probably say 'science', but I'm not sure that science can obtain the true value of something.

How exactly do they plan on eliminating the competitive nature of humans and technological advancement? I don't see how it's possible without coercion/statism....

They want to do it through a consciousness revolution.