State of The US Economy?

How Is The US Economy Doing?

  • Moderate To Explosive Growth

    Votes: 1 1.8%
  • Weak Growth, But Not A Recession

    Votes: 2 3.6%
  • Modest Recession

    Votes: 18 32.7%
  • Severe Recession

    Votes: 20 36.4%
  • Depression

    Votes: 11 20.0%
  • Economics Is Only A State Of Mind

    Votes: 3 5.5%

  • Total voters
    55
  • Poll closed .

SevenEyedJeff

Member
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
1,054
I encourage you all to look at shadowstats.com which puts together government data as it was before the government started manipulating it. If you look at the GDP data, you can tell that we are in the 2nd dip of a double-dip recession which began in 2000, and it is still worsening...

http://www.shadowstats.com/alternate_data
 
modest to severe recession; if we keep up what we're currently doing, it'll quickly turn into a Depression.
 
Economics Is Only A State Of Mind

I believe in the separation of government and economy. We should have a strong state, however. I've always been fond of Alexander Hamilton.
 
Depression, the stock market dropped more than June of 1932 ffs.

<3 Bought a plane ticket to idaho. I'll be 3500 feet a top a mountain 75 miles away from the nearest stop light.

Enjoy the neocons rioting for food in the inner cities in 2010.
 
It has been a depression for a lot of people for quite some time now. Specifically small towns whos great manufacturing jobs have been outsourced to Mexico.

Thanks NAFTA, you rock.
 
It has been a depression for a lot of people for quite some time now. Specifically small towns whos great manufacturing jobs have been outsourced to Mexico.

Thanks NAFTA, you rock.

Don't you just love socialism? <33333

Yay!
 
Moderate recession currently, likely to become full depression in the next year.
 
It has been a depression for a lot of people for quite some time now. Specifically small towns whos great manufacturing jobs have been outsourced to Mexico.

Thanks NAFTA, you rock.



you just described my town perfectly
 
I would love to post this poll on a neocon forum, most of them would probably say we have moderate to explosive growth. After all, bombs going off in Iraq equals explosive growth.:D
 
State of mind is a valid option since people's perception of what the future will be like effects what they do today and what they do today will ultimately effect what happens in the future. If, for example, people keep hearing that next year they could face a recession what do they do? Keep buying things and even borrowing on their credit card to get things- believing they will be making more money next year anyways? No. They start to cut back on their spending. The stores they used to shop at are now taking in less money in sales. The stores notice that they are not selling as much so they cut back on their employees- either in absolute numbers or just the hours for the employees they have. Now these people definately have less money to spend so they reduce their spending. The store also needs less inventory and supplies so they cut back on orders from their suppliers. Now those companies need fewer workers and supplies. The news reports that sales are down and worker wages are down and possibly employment lower. Aha! We were right- things are starting to get worse. More cuts move through the chain. It becomes self- fufilling that things got worse. An inverse bubble. It did not need to be any actual event that caused the change in buying- only people's perception of the future.

This can also work in the opposite direction. Just look back at the recent housing bubble. Housing prices started to rise. People thought they can make more money in housing so they bought houses to try to sell quickly to someone else for more money. Whether they were buying a house or not, people spent more money. Apreciation of real estate values can only be realized if you ultimately sell your house and buy a cheaper one. But people did not realize this. They took out home equity lines of credit against the rising value of their house to buy things- maybe something for the house, maybe an SUV. All the borrowing and spending caused the prices of real estate to continue to go up ever faster. Everyone felt well off even though some were borrowing more than they could realistically hope to pay back. The overall economy grew because people felt good and spent money. For the most part, nobody was making more money (some were of course) but they were spending more.

Of course there can be very real reasons for the economy to go down. We are facing some today with the rise of the price of oil being the largest factor. People are spending less on buying things since they are spending more on fuel for their car instead. But the changes in activity are more than that. The excess spending is going away. Instead of running up the credit cards, more people are starting to pay them off to get into a more financially stable position since the future is more uncertain. I think this is a good sign- that they are not continuing to run up more debt. It is also more difficult to borrow even if they wanted too- certainly borrowing against their house is not as easy.

http://www.bizjournals.com/washington/stories/2008/06/16/daily67.html?ana=from_rss
Friday, June 20, 2008
Credit card debt, loan delinquencies down in first quarterWashington Business Journal


New credit card data released Thursday by TransUnion.com shows the first quarter marked the first dip in credit card debt and loan delinquencies since the beginning of 2007.

The Chicago-based credit and information management firm said average credit card debt and national credit card loan delinquency (the ratio of borrowers 90 or more days past due) had statistically relevant quarterly declines. National average credit card debt per credit card borrower dropped 1.25 percent to $1,673 since the fourth quarter of 2007, though the total remains 5.6 percent higher than $1,584 in the same period last year.

The ratio of credit card borrowers delinquent on one or more of their credit cards fell to 1.19 percent in the first quarter, down 12.5 percent. However, that total also is higher than 0.91 percent in the same period last year.

"As a whole, the recent deceleration, however slight, in the mortgage delinquency rate is reflected in the bank card market as consumers take stock of their overall debt and begin to catch up on their repayment schedule wherever possible," said Ezra Becker, principal consultant in TransUnion's financial services group. "Even states like California, Florida, and Nevada who have experienced large increases over the last four quarters in their bank card delinquency rates showed a drop in the first quarter."
 
We are in a severe recession, headed to a depression(The housing market is already there and going no where but down), one far worse than in the 1930s.
 
We are in a severe recession, headed to a depression(The housing market is already there and going no where but down), one far worse than in the 1930s.

Leave your inner city lifestyles and bug out until the revolution takes hold.

Consult Gov. Gunny Freedom for advice.
 
Found an interesting article related to this.
http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2008/04/02/depression/
Portions:
Most economists are no longer debating whether there will be a recession in 2008. Now, they're arguing over when the recession started -- was it last November, or December? -- and how bad it's likely to get. While they bicker, however, a far more terrifying economic specter from the distant past has sent a chill through the infosphere.

"We have not seen a nationwide decline in housing like this since the Great Depression," said the CEO of Wells Fargo late last year. "It is now clear that the U.S. and global financial markets are experiencing their worst financial crisis since the Great Depression," wrote economist Nouriel Roubini last week.


The Great Depression?

For the majority of Americans alive today, the Great Depression has an almost mythic luster. We may not remember it -- if you were 18 during the crash of 1929, you're 97 now -- but we cannot escape its foundational legacy. At the very least, we know that back then was when times were really bad, because that's the standard by which historians, economists and journalists always measure every other potentially bad time. Conservative and liberal economists are still arguing over what caused it and whether Franklin Roosevelt's New Deal fixed the mess or prolonged the pain, but there's no arguing with the historical record: The Great Depression happened, scarring the lives of millions of Americans and fundamentally changing the course of politics in the United States.

So when you hear the phrase "since the Great Depression," you know it's time to tighten your belt, and maybe put off splurging on that next vacation. But what about taking it to the next level? What is required to move past "since" and smack into the much scarier "as bad as" category? As in -- the current economic crisis is as bad as the Great Depression. Or, bluntly put, how will we know when and if our current recession has morphed into a full-fledged depression?

Let's concede right off that the question is still speculative. The U.S. economy is not even technically in recession yet, either by the standard definition of two consecutive quarters of negative GDP growth, or as "officially" declared by the National Bureau of Economic Research. If we define a "depression" as a decline in GDP of 10 percent, then the U.S. is nowhere close.

In 1933, 24 percent of the workforce was unemployed. In February 2008, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the U.S. unemployment rate was 4.8 percent (though there are reasons to believe that number significantly underestimates the true picture). Between 1929 and 1933, U.S. GDP growth declined by around 30 percent, the stock market lost almost 90 percent of its value, and a whopping 40 percent of the nation's banks failed. In the fourth quarter of 2007, GDP growth registered an 0.6 gain. While stocks are down over the last year and a half, there's still no consensus about whether we're living through a "correction" or a full-scale bear market. And even though scores of mortgage lenders have declared bankruptcy in the last year, both the real banking system and the so-called shadow banking system of generally unregulated investment banks and hedge funds are still afloat, thanks in large part to Federal Reserve chairman Ben Bernanke's dogged determination to ensure that if economic disaster does strike, it won't be because the Fed failed to pump enough liquidity into the system (an error that conservative economists are convinced helped cause the first Great Depression).

So we're not there yet. And maybe we'll never get there. Who knows -- maybe those economic stimulus checks due to arrive in another month or so will sufficiently juice the economy so that the great housing bust and credit crunch of 2007-08 suddenly fade away like a bad dream.

But we could get there. In fact, it would be all too easy. All we have to do is ignore what the markets and other economic indicators are telling us right now and continue down the disastrous path we've been merrily skipping along for the last 25 or so years. Want to see "The Great Depression: The Sequel"? Here's a handy three-step do-it-yourself action plan.

1. Continue to ignore growing income inequality and govern the United States for the benefit of the rich at the expense of the many.
2. Continue to whittle away at the safety nets that exist to cushion Americans from economic ill winds.
3. Continue to weaken government oversight of Wall Street.

Or, in other words, combine Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson's toothless regulatory "overhaul" (which, absurdly, would actually result in less government oversight of the financial markets than currently exists), with Sen. John McCain's pledge to continue the economic policies of George W. Bush (read his lips: make the tax cuts permanent). Presto: A severe recession gets the opportunity it has long been waiting for and heads south for parts unknown for almost a century.
 
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