Social Libertarian?

[electronicmaji]

Are there any other Social Libertarians out there? I am a Social Libertarian.

Now for those who don't understand Social Libertarianism let me quote the Universal Declaration of Human Rights to explain.

I beleive that federal level income taxes are wrong as are heavy taxation. I beleive in laissez faire and social freedom. But I also beleive the following Section 1 of Article 25 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights is true.

"Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control."

 

[Alex Libman]

In other words, everyone has a "right" to put a gun to someone else's head and extract the wealth that someone else created for their own needs? (Oh, that's right, only "special" people can do that, the government, then it's OK... Right?)

And who decides what's "adequate", is a ten-million-dollar operation to extend someone's life by a couple of years now a right? Is a team of doctors needed to perform the thousands of total hours necessary to take care of that patient expected to work for free? Who's going to pay them a competitive wage? If 30% of the population would benefit from a surgery like that to extend the end of their lives, what would the tax rate have to be to provide that?

Remember, you can't tax over 100%! In reality, actually, you can't even tax over 50%, because all the smart doctors will simply leave the country! Or, someday, if it comes to that, the planet. Sooner or later, Atlas will shrug!

Did you know that after WW2 the Soviet Union, the country in which I was born, killed tens of thousands of its own disabled veterans, even decorated heroes in some cases? They herded them on barges and dumped them in the middle of the sea! Seriously! That's what socialized medicine gets you - not only no incentive to innovate, but no incentive to keep the patient alive!

Now, what I do believe in is voluntary charity. While I will fight the government for every penny it wants to steal from me, I'd gladly give half my income to non-governmental efforts that I find worth-while. I don't want to live in a community that doesn't take care of its own! And private charities must compete for funds, so there is no corruption and high incentive for innovation - teaching a man to fish instead of making him depended on someone else's fish. That's why I firmly believe that the most libertarian societies will also be the most humane!

 

[noztnac]

Are there any other Social Libertarians out there? I am a Social Libertarian.

Now for those who don't understand Social Libertarianism let me quote the Universal Declaration of Human Rights to explain.

I beleive that federal level income taxes are wrong as are heavy taxation. I beleive in laissez faire and social freedom. But I also beleive the following Section 1 of Article 25 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights is true.

Just call yourself a benevolent idealistic socialist.

 

[Antonius Stone]

the only "socialized service" that i support beyond the usual gimmes (fire dept, police) is education, because it teaches people how to fish and not be dependent on the government

I do think that civil/military service should be compulsory however. Everyone should serve at least 1 year

 

[foofighter20x]

Are there any other Social Libertarians out there? I am a Social Libertarian.

Now for those who don't understand Social Libertarianism let me quote the Universal Declaration of Human Rights to explain.

I beleive that federal level income taxes are wrong as are heavy taxation. I beleive in laissez faire and social freedom. But I also beleive the following Section 1 of Article 25 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights is true.

If you honestly believe that a person has a right to anything which someone else must provide for free, then you aren't a libertarian.

 

[electronicmaji]

I didn't ask for criticism.

I don't think the goverment has a right to steal from other people. But I do think people have the rights represented in the former piece. Now please if you want to debate open another thread this is for people who think like I do...

 

[JosephTheLibertarian]

I didn't ask for criticism.

I don't think the goverment has a right to steal from other people. But I do think people have the rights represented in the former piece. Now please if you want to debate open another thread this is for people who think like I do...

you lefties trying to steal our new name? you already fucked up the word 'liberal' for us

I think you're a libertarian-leaning liberal btw

 

[Alex Libman]

Let's call ourselves "selfish capitalist pigs against all regulation and social services" - they'll never steal that!

 

[jorlowitz]

Welcome...

Don't know why people here get so nasty. It's not like you can't support Dr. Paul AND disagree with him or find different approaches interesting. The best way to make your argument would be to acknowledge that though you support preventing the government from limiting what people can do you also support programs at the government level which promote a certain level of equality. It's an interesting question how you can be against government force or coercion in one instance and for it in others... i think it is worth more discussion. Maybe people on this forum will at least allow it without pretending you're insane (though your label does seem like a bit of a stretch, I'd just ditch it... besides, what typically characterizes a social libertarian but a fiscal liberal is a word most people already know well: Democrat).

 

[JosephTheLibertarian]

Let's call ourselves "selfish capitalist pigs against all regulation and social services" - they'll never steal that!

Most libertarians aren't rich, common misconception I went to public schools!! middle class here

 

[constituent]

actually, i believe the 'free market' is the only option if you consider yourself any stripe of "socialist"

why?

because we know that government never helps the poor... you don't even really get a say.

and when the government is screwing everyone (as happened in Russia), you don't have an
alternative and everyone really really suffers...

no bueno.

however, the burgeoning not for profit industry provides an excellent outlet for "socially" minded
individuals, particularly libertarians, to do their work on an entirely voluntary basis while those performing
the associated tasks still get paid competitive wages (or volunteer, w/e)....

w/out taxation. w/out coercion.

 

[noxagol]

Well, if you aren't going to have the government steal all the money to fund all of these "rights", or force them to provide the service at gun point, then how will these people get their "right" fullfilled. You sir, are confused on what libertarian means.

 

[werdd]

Are there any other Social Libertarians out there? I am a Social Libertarian.

Now for those who don't understand Social Libertarianism let me quote the Universal Declaration of Human Rights to explain.

I beleive that federal level income taxes are wrong as are heavy taxation. I beleive in laissez faire and social freedom. But I also beleive the following Section 1 of Article 25 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights is true.

While that truly would be the best of both worlds i think this is impossible. Without an income tax you cant perform these functions of a nanny state.

 

[Fox McCloud]

Um, I don't believe that the government should provide any social services, except for protection, immigration control, minor regulation (ie: incredibly minor) here and there, and that's about it.

I support laissez-faire Free Markets, and just about as much social freedom.

I'm not an anarcho-capitalist, however, as I do think there needs to be some government...it just needs to be exceedingly small.

 

[FreeTraveler]

Just call yourself a benevolent idealistic socialist.

QFMFT!

 

[FreeTraveler]

I didn't ask for criticism.

I don't think the goverment has a right to steal from other people. But I do think people have the rights represented in the former piece. Now please if you want to debate open another thread this is for people who think like I do...

Those "rights" have to be paid for by someone's efforts. Are you going to pay for those "rights"? Are those "rights" going to be paid for voluntarily? If not, you're a Socialist, and calling yourself a Libertarian is nothing but a LIE.

 

[Eponym_mi]

I am a Social Libertarian.

My biggest concern in electing any libertarian to office would be that true libertarian principles might be corrupted by posers. Based on the so-called "rights" you described, you sound more like a communist.

 

[Sandy]

Are there any other Social Libertarians out there? I am a Social Libertarian.

Now for those who don't understand Social Libertarianism let me quote the Universal Declaration of Human Rights to explain.

I beleive that federal level income taxes are wrong as are heavy taxation. I beleive in laissez faire and social freedom. But I also beleive the following Section 1 of Article 25 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights is true.

Where did this come from? Who wrote this? I would like a source and an internet link, I bet I could find something similar written by the UN. There is a difference between inalienable rights, and what certain people are calling 'human rights' in order to justify communism which is about slavery, oppression, and ends up involving genocide and much more. That Declaration sounds nice, but that's how communism is sold, by appealing to emotions and using fluffy, unrealistic idealism.

 

[FreeTraveler]

My biggest concern in electing any libertarian to office would be that true libertarian principles might be corrupted by posers. Based on the so-called "rights" you described, you sound more like a communist. You are one of the posers I fear.

No doubt this person is a poser. These "rights" fail the "Who Pays?" test.

ALWAYS ask the question "Who Pays?" That's the ONE question that will define a program or "right" as libertarian or not. If the issue is to be settled at the end of a gun, whether that gun is in private or public hands, then it's not libertarian.

The initiation of force can NEVER be libertarian. If you're going to pay for something with taxation, which is the initiation of force, it's not libertarian.

 

[constituent]

wow. i was kinda hoping for a response from the OP... seems only interested in responding to those who disagree...


even though this is a thread for similarly minded individuals????


i don't get it.