Sign waving? Usefull or waste of time?

[ronpaulhawaii]

C'mon, Mike! That answer has too much simplicity and common sense for the troglodytes arguing the fundamental top-down supervision to shut up do what you are told, they know better...

Always nice to have you drop by

 

[Peace&Freedom]

Sign-waving and rallies have been used by the establishment because they give the appearance of buzz and excitement to a campaign, that's all. The issue here was whether they deliver votes. The above activities are commonly used to augment the REAL strategies emphasized by successful candidates to win elections. The problem with the grassroots emphasis on sign-waving last time was, all too often, that WAS the top-down emphasis of the meet-ups.

If sign-waving and rallies were so useful for vote-getting, why isn't Ron Paul President?

 

[ronpaulhawaii]

Sign-waving and rallies have been used by the establishment because they give the appearance of buzz and excitement to a campaign, that's all.

Really? They only give the "appearance" of buzz and excitement? Or do they actually build buzz and excitement? Methinks they do, or else TPTB would not waste time and money on these activities

The issue here was whether they deliver votes. The above activities are commonly used to augment the REAL strategies emphasized by successful candidates to win elections. The problem with the grassroots emphasis on sign-waving last time was, all too often, that WAS the top-down emphasis of the meet-ups.

I don't think TPTB would waste time and money on them if they did not help "deliver votes". Whether through energizing a volunteer base, adding to the volunteer base, creating earned media, and other side benefits...

If sign-waving and rallies were so useful for vote-getting, why isn't Ron Paul President?

Because we were mostly all new-comers, we had little, or no, representation in the GOP, we are fighting a two-headed monster, and too many people were complacent. All of those things have been changing in our favor...

For certain, Sign waving and rallies are not at the top of the list of things that will GOTV, but to say it is a complete waste of time is wrong, IMO.

 

[JeremyDahl]

In politics, you must target your electorate base as much as possible.

Sign waving does not achieve this in its standard application.

This is why the power hungry do not highly advocate it to their supporters or utilize it strongly.

It is a small tool in the long run, and is but garnish on a campaign.

 

[Bman]

Unless you are an attractive female, waving signs is a waste of time.

 

[libertarian4321]

C'mon Mr. Libertarian. Haven't you heard of an opportunity cost? Instead of waving signs, they could be knocking on doors, or placing calls, or making fliers.

As I stated previously, a lot of people who will gladly volunteer to wave signs are NOT willing to bang on people's doors or interrupt their day by making an annoying political phone call.

For those people, you can either use them as sign wavers or they will do nothing at all.

 

[MRoCkEd]

I hope people who don't want to do anything besides wave signs suck it up and knock on some doors.

I definitely don't enjoy phone banking or canvassing, but I did it anyway.

I would say only people who have personality disorders that would make them more likely to hurt their cause by talking to people should wave signs.

 

[libertarian4321]

And are you aware most of the young Paul supporters did not vote?

Really? How do you know?

Please provide a link showing that most young Ron Paul supporters did not vote.

Their 'support' did not materialize at the ballot box, consistent with the voting patterns of younger adults in general.

Yes, young people do not vote in as large percentages as older people, because young people tend to be disengaged in the political process. However, young people who are paying enough attention to bother getting involved with a political campaign DO tend to vote. You can't use generalizations about ALL young people to cast aspersions on those who are involved.

Even if younger people are less likely to vote, it is pure idiocy to ignore them as a group just because they are "less likely" to show up. If you choose to ignore younger folks because older folks vote at 50% and younger folks vote at 25%, you are just tossing away votes. Remember, 25% of 1,000 is more than 0% of 1,000.

You should also note that I did not say sign waving ONLY helped get young people aboard. It also works for older folks.

Most of the 2007 Paul grassroots activity was misspent reaching unlikely-voters or Democratic populations, instead of the likely voter populations actually eligible to vote in the GOP primary (to enable him to win nomination).

That's your OPINION, mine differs. If we just target older, hard line Republicans, and IGNORE EVERYONE ELSE, Ron Paul has NO CHANCE. Ron Paul is just not that popular among old school Republicans- did you happen to notice how establishment Republicans did everything they could to ignore him, mock him, disrespect him, and exclude him?

If the energies were spent next time on older independents who ARE likely voters, both to persuade them to vote for Paul, or if Democrats, to even switch party registration in time to vote for him in the primaries, that would make more sense. But "the cheap and easy way" was not, and is not the more intelligent or effective way to go about actually getting Paul nominated and elected.

I'll say this for probably the fifth time: There are a LOT of people who will volunteer to sign wave, march, or go to rallies who simply WILL NOT bang on doors or make political phone calls. I'm one of them- I hate receiving annoying political phone calls and despise jackasses who pound on my door to sell a candidate, and I'm not willing to inflict that upon others.

For those volunteers (who are likely the majority), sign waving may be a good use of their time- far less of a "waste of time" than having them not do anything at all, which is what you'll get from them if you try and insist that they bang on door.

 

[Peace&Freedom]

Really? They only give the "appearance" of buzz and excitement? Or do they actually build buzz and excitement? Methinks they do, or else TPTB would not waste time and money on these activities.

The rallies show excitement (real or manufactured) for the choir that is already invested in, or being compensated by the candidate. The typical purpose is to get the media to pay some attention, by tricking them into thinking the campaign is catching fire with voters. I remember Mondale holding rather massive rallies in the weeks prior to being blown out by Reagan in '84. But contriving a buzz event is not the same thing as truly exciting new supporters. It's not NEW blood, or voters.

The point here is not to say sign waving et al was a total waste, but to say that assigning it the unbalanced, massive emphasis it got in 2007 would be a waste. When I have run third party campaigns, I have had the same kind of discussion with people who actually say campaign buttons (media dating back to the 1840's) are essential campaign media in the 21st century. I also know of many who are excited about funding a Ron Paul blimp again, and think therefore everybody else should be, despite lack of evidence it helped us with getting votes. I'm just saying, let's learn from the last campaign and not misallocate resources in unbalanced ways---otherwise, we haven't learned anything.

 

[ronpaulhawaii]

The rallies show excitement (real or manufactured) for the choir that is already invested in, or being compensated by the candidate. The typical purpose is to get the media to pay some attention, by tricking them into thinking the campaign is catching fire with voters. I remember Mondale holding rather massive rallies in the weeks prior to being blown out by Reagan in '84. But contriving a buzz event is not the same thing as truly exciting new supporters. It's not NEW blood, or voters.

Actually, my experience is that many of our supporters were brought in from sign-bombs, overpass banners, etc.. My experience is them telling me this exact thing, as we headed out to knock on doors, sat together making phone calls, or stood on a corner handing out lit. I don't think it is fair to compare the astro-turf events to our real grassroots.

Further, generating earned media is an important campaign tactic. Knocking on doors/making calls/etc.. is just not that newsworthy...

The point here is not to say sign waying et al was a total waste, but to say that assigning it the unbalanced, massive emphasis it got in 2007 would be a waste. When I have run third party campaigns, I have had the same kind of discussion with people who actually say campaign buttons (media dating back to the 1840's) are essential campaign media in the 21st century. I also know of many who are excited about funding a Ron Paul blimp again, and think therefore everybody else should be, despite lack of evidence it helped us with getting votes. I'm just saying, let's learn from the last campaign and not misallocate resources in unbalanced ways---otherwise, we haven't learned anything.

I mostly agree with you here about finding a balance. (Although I do think buttons and shirts spark informal discussion with people we would not normally reach.) My point in this thread is that it seems to be promoting the opposite extreme and will result in a different lack of balance...

 

[Eric21ND]

I do think sign waving would be quite valuable in the general election, the primary less so. As a side note, it was rather fun being out there with signs about Nov 5th and Dec 16th and people are like, "Huh?" and then they turn on the news and boom!

BTW I don't know why this is an either or proposition. I think we can do the typical campaigning and mix in a little sign making/waving.

 

[cswake]

YouTube - Ron Paul in the news North Carolina

 

[jake]

Sign waving is never a waste of time. Most sheeplike voters need to know that there's buzz around a candidate before they'll give him or her their vote. Sign waves, overpass banners, etc. help rev up that feeling of excitement that keeps people already in the movement inspired and brings new people in. It is indispensable activism.

agreed. but I think we need to move to at least SOME professionally made overpass hung signs. the home-made look is good and all, but I think some people (older folks perhaps) are turned off by the non-official look. so a good mix of home-made and professionally made signs might be best.

 

[GunnyFreedom]

YouTube - Ron Paul in the news North Carolina

Where did all these people go? I am AWFUL familiar with Paulers statewide in NC, and by the time I got back from Super Tuesday in Alabama, these people in Charlotte were mostly gone. We still have a bunch of people out Charlotte way, but none of the people in that vid I recognize.

Whatever happened to "in for a penny, in for a pound?"

 

[StateHate]

I have access to a few ron paul voter and donor lists... they are made up of nearly the same party make up and age demographics as everyone else.


this being said, the county that ron won was won on single issues and hard hard campaigning