Scientific Proof that Jesus is the Messiah

TER

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Proof that Jesus Christ is the Messiah...

from a web page by alphabyte, a previous senior op in this channel

What do you suppose the chances are that Jesus is NOT the Messiah? The following are some prophecies made about the coming Messiah in the Old Testament and fulfilled hundreds of years later by the life of Jesus Christ.

1. The Virgin Birth:
Isaiah 7:14 fulfilled: Matthew 1:18 and Luke 1:26-35

2. Jesus born in Bethlehem:
Micah 5:2 fulfilled: Matthew 2:4-8 and Luke 2:4-7

3. King Herod kills children in attempt to kill the Christ child:
Jeremiah 31:15 fulfilled: Matthew 2:16

4. John the Baptist's ministry:
Isaiah 40:3 fulfilled: John 1:23

5. Jesus enters Jerusalem on a donkey:
Zechariah 9:9 fulfilled: Luke 19:35-37a

6. The Resurrection of Christ:
Psalms 16:10 fulfilled: Acts 2:31 (see the Gospel accounts also)

7. Jesus betrayed for 30 pieces of silver:
Zechariah 11:12 fulfilled: Matthew 26:15

8. Jesus crucified on a cross:
Psalm 22 and Isaiah 53:12 fulfilled: Matthew 27:38 and Luke 23:33

These are just 8 prophecies. There are literally hundreds more that have been fulfilled by the life of Christ. The following passage comes from the book, "The Case for Jesus the Messiah" (by John Ankerberg, Dr. John Weldon and Dr. Walter C. Kaiser), page 18-20:

Professor Emeritus of Science at Westmon College, Peter Stoner, has calculated the probability of one man fulfilling the major prophecies made concerning the Messiah. The estimates were worked out by twelve different classes of 600 college students.

The students carefully weighed all the factors, discussed each prophecy at length, and examined the various circumstances which might indicate that men had conspired together to fulfill a particular prophecy. They made their estimates conservative enough so that there was finally unanimous agreement even among the most skeptical students.

But then Professor Stoner took their estimates and made them even more conservative. He also encouraged other skeptics or scientists to make their own estimates to see if his conclusions were more fair. Finally, he submitted his figures for review to a Committee of the American Scientific Affiliation. Upon examination, they verified that his calculations were dependable and accurate in regard to scientific material presented. [footnote given: Peter Stoner, Science Speaks: Scientific Proof of the Accuracy of Prophecy and the Bible. Chicago, Moody Press, 1969.]

For example, concerning Micah 5:2, where it states the Messiah would be born in Bethlehem Ephrathah, Stoner and his students determined the average population of Bethlehem from the time of Micah to the present; then they divided it by the average population of the earth during the same period. they concluded that the chance of one man being born in Bethlehem was one in 2.8 X 10^5 or rounded, one in 300,000.

After examining eight different prophecies, they conservatively estimated that the chance of one man fulfilling all eight prophecies was one in 10^17.

To illustrate how large the number is 10^17 (a figure with 17 zeros), Stoner gave this illustration. Imagine covering the entire state of Texas with silver dollars to a level of two feet deep. The total number of silver dollars needed to cover the whole state would be 10^17. Now, choose just one of those silver dollars, mark it and drop it from an airplane. Then thoroughly stir all the silver dollars all over the state.

When that has been done, blindfold one man, tell him he can travel wherever he wishes in the state of Texas. But sometime he must stop, reach down into the two feet of silver dollars and try to pull up that one specific silver dollar that has been marked.

Now, the chance of his finding that one silver dollar in the state of Texas would be the chance the prophets had for eight of their prophecies coming true in any one man in the future...

...But of course there are many more than eight prophecies. In another calculation Stoner used 48 prophecies (even though he could have used 456) and arrived at the extremely conservative estimate that the probability of 48 prophecies being fulfilled in one person is 10^157 [footnote given].

How large is the number one in 10^157? 10^157 contains 157 zeros! Let us try to illustrate this number using electrons.

Electrons are very small objects. They are smaller than atoms. It would take 2.5 times 10^15 of them, laid side by side, to make one inch. Even if we counted four electrons every second and counted day and night, it would take us 19 million years just to count a line of electrons one-inch long.

But how many electrons would it take if we were dealing with 10^157electrons? Imagine building a solid ball of electrons that would extend in all directions from earth a length of 6 billion light years. The distance in miles of just one light year is 6.4 trillion miles. That would be a big ball! But not big enough to measure 10^157 electrons.

In order to do that, you must take that big ball of electrons reaching the length of 6 billion light years long in all directions and multiply it by 6 X 10^28! How big is that? It's the length of the space required to store trillions and trillions and trillions of the same gigantic balls and more. In fact, the space required to store all of these balls combined together would just start to "scratch the surface" of the number of electrons we would need to really accurately speak about 10^157

But assuming you have some idea of the number of electrons we are talking about, now imagine marking just one of those electrons in that huge number. Stir them all up....
 
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It must be remembered that the final illustration given above is for 48 prophecies, when in reality Jesus fulfilled over 450. To calculate the odds of such a number, the entire universe filled with electrons could not approach such scales of numbers. In fact, that Jesus is the awaited Messiah can be said to be the greatest scientific truth there is.
 
The estimates were worked out by twelve different classes of 600 college students.

The students carefully weighed all the factors...

Well. We can't very well infuse special pleading (in this case, God's will) into a scientific experiment and call it science. Also..did these students carefully weigh factors such as the ancients understanding of astrological alignment? Much of contemporary religion has reinterpreted the ancients understanding of the universe around them and then established these social constructs. It's just a fact.

If I just picked the first thing on the list (The Virgin Birth) I could demonstrate that the ancients understood this contemporary construct to be something entirely different but through time it's been completely reframed into a story about Jesus. And there has been a Jesus character for every age since for that matter.

I'm not trying to wreck your thread or anything, TER, but there are logical explanations for what the ancients understood. Theology kind of stays in the ballpark but it always seems to try to attach a story to it. Which ultimately just hijacks history. Although not really. The same alignments still occur. More of a social mechanism, I suppose.

Even the ressurection is a contemporary religious reframe of the winter solstice. You know?
 
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Well. We can't very well infuse special pleading (in this case, God's will) into a scientific experiment and call it science. Also..did these students carefully weigh factors such as the ancients understanding of astronomical alignment? Much of contemporary religion has reinterpreted the ancients understanding of the universe around them and then established these social constructs. It's just a fact.

If I just picked the first thing on the list I could demonstrate that the ancients understood this contemporary construct to be something entirely different but through time it's been completely reframed into a story about Jesus. And there has been a Jesus character for every age since for that matter.

I'm not trying to wreck your thread or anything, TER, but there are logical explanations for what the ancients understood. Theology kind of stays in the ballpark but it always seems to try to attach a story to it. Which ultimately just hijacks history. Although not really. the same alignments still occur.

NC, believe as you will. To me and my little brain, I stand in awe to what Christ has done and how much our Father in Heaven loves us. :)
 
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I'm not trying to wreck your thread or anything, TER, but there are logical explanations for what the ancients understood. Theology kind of stays in the ballpark but it always seems to try to attach a story to it. Which ultimately just hijacks history. Although not really. The same alignments still occur. More of a social mechanism, I suppose.

Even the ressurection is a contemporary religious reframe of the winter solstice. You know?

Just saw your edit above. Again, believe as you wish. I cannot read the Old Testament without seeing God preparing the way for the Christ to come and save us from our inequity, and that Jesus Christ is that Messiah. It is nice to see a scientifically done study confirm what my heart already knows.
 
Just saw your edit above. Again, believe as you wish. I cannot read the Old Testament without seeing God preparing the way for the Christ to come and save us from our inequity, and that Jesus Christ is that Messiah. It is nice to see a scientifically done study confirm what my heart already knows.

You know, I don't really have much of a gripe with anyone who takes your position. Essentially, both are the same but just viewed through different lenses. Mine just doesn't have a story attached to it. I've read the Bible a few times. Different versions as well. Technically I could read the thing and place it into perspective with what I know to be true and it makes sense. It's just that when I read about the Virgin Mary, I think of Venus rising in the constellation of Virgo before the sun. Now you may see it as a physical virgin woman giving birth to a physical son but translation is really all that differs. That's OK. Essentially we're on the same page.
 
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You kow, I don't really have much of a gripe with anyone who takes your position. Essentially, both are the same but just viewed through different lenses. Mine just doesn't have a story attached to it. I've read the Bible a few times. different versions as well. Technically I could read the thing and place it into perspective with what I know and it makes sense. It's just that when I read about the Virgin Mary, I think of Venus rising in the constellation of Virgo before the sun. Now you may see it as a physical virgin woman giving birth to a physical son but translation is really all that differs. That's OK. Essentially we're on the same page.

:) Why my friend do you stop at the knowledge of the Three Magi prior to them falling on their knees in worship of Christ? They understood the heavenly signs, they realized this and knew this, for they saw it fulfilled in the incarnate Creator in swaddling clothes before them.

Yes, the stars and the heavens proclaim His glory, however our salvation does not come from the stars or from the planet Venus, but by Christ our God Who came down from Heaven to unite with us and to show us the way unto eternal life.
 
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:) Why my friend do you stop at the knowledge of the Three Magi prior to them falling in worships of Christ? They understood the heavenly signs, they realized this and knew this, for they saw it fulfilled in the incarnate Creator in swaddling clothes before them.

Yes, the stars and the heavens proclaim His glory, however our salvation does not come from the stars or from the planet Venus, but by Christ our God Who came down from Heaven to unite with us and to show us the way unto eternal life.

Ah, yes. Orions Belt. Points to Sirius. Yep. I didn't forget about it. Just didn't figure you wanted to go that far into it.
 
The OP doesn't even take into account the other foreshadowings and types of Christ found in almost every other religion, fulfilled by Jesus. Glory to you our God, glory to You!
 
TER, did it ever occur to you that the people who wrote the New Testament probably read the Old Testament first?
 
TER, did it ever occur to you that the people who wrote the New Testament probably read the Old Testament first?

:) Of course!

I assume you are implying that they made things up in the NT in order to fulfill the prophecies of the OT or that things were planned intentionally in order to 'make' Jesus fulfill those prophecies?
 
That is not scientific proof. That is history mixed with mathematical probability.
In general, yeah it is neither scientific nor is it proof.

It's all communication and what people want words to mean, I suppose; but it is within a section on religion.
 
The statistically observational fulfillment of a hypothesis is pretty much an accepted form of scientific validity from my understanding
 
In general, yeah it is neither scientific nor is it proof.

It's all communication and what people want words to mean, I suppose; but it is within a section on religion.
Mathematics is a science-one of the most logical (due to its highly deductive nature), as well. Probability is a branch of mathematics (sometimes considered a branch of calculus, but not really, IMO).

ETA: Mathematical proofs are usually considered the most valuable proofs, as falsification of inaccurate data is so easy and the method so rigorous and time-tested.
 
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Not really on topic, but just stumbled upon this interesting JPEG (not really sure where the 'science then' references are).

the+bible+tells+it+all.jpg
 
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