Ron Paul: Bradley Manning Promotes Peace More Than Obama

sailingaway · Apr 12, 2013

I'm with Lew that Ron Paul is my pick, personally.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/135445.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

But I do think the way Manning is being treated is disgraceful. It is just tricky because he obviously knew he was breaking rules and going against orders, and was in the army, so 'should' keep information confidential. He knew he was breaking those rules and took responsibility, imho, for the natural consequences. I just think the consequences he is getting for that action are beyond the pale, because our government acted badly and was shown to act badly and was embarrassed, and is outright getting revenge, not because of any national secrets being given out.

sailingaway · Apr 12, 2013

Here is the USNews Report Rockwell refers to: http://www.usnews.com/news/articles...rves-nobel-peace-prize-more-than-barack-obama

VoteRandPaul2016 · Apr 12, 2013

If exposing your government for crimes against humanity is unpatriotic then I don't know what patriotism is.

jmdrake · Apr 12, 2013

See, it's stuff like this that's why Ron doesn't have to struggle with minority outreach. Of course stuff like this hurts Ron with the teocons. Rand needs to play more off his famed filibuster which gained him lavish praise from the likes of Mark Levin on the right while getting still getting some begrudging praise from the likes of Van Jones on the left.

sailingaway · Apr 12, 2013

VoteRandPaul2016 said:
If exposing your government for crimes against humanity is unpatriotic then I don't know what patriotism is.

I'm not sure that is actually what he did. He showed that we were lied to and being manipulated and a bunch of other stuff, but actually, I don't think there was anything definitive that was that major -- which is why the charges against him are such bunk. What it did do is make people QUESTION and that was, indeed, good. I didn't say what he did was unpatriotic, but when you patriotically go against army rules and give out private info and are in the army, you also know what consequences you are getting -- up to a point. Had he been dishonorably discharged, I'd have accepted it without blinking. And would still have been glad to have the information. What he is getting done to him, though, is MORE shameful in terms of intentional bad conduct, and the administration is doing it to itself.

I just see a distinction between him and Assange, who breached no duty and just published it. (Assange's rape charge can rise or fall on its own merits, apparently it had to do with not wearing a condom, and Sweden didn't seem interested in it until the US government started pushing it to get to Assange.)

jmdrake said:
See, it's stuff like this that's why Ron doesn't have to struggle with minority outreach. Of course stuff like this hurts Ron with the teocons. Rand needs to play more off his famed filibuster which gained him lavish praise from the likes of Mark Levin on the right while getting still getting some begrudging praise from the likes of Van Jones on the left.

I agree. Ron is Ron, he doesn't pander to anyone, and if you dislike X or Y about him, if you are honest, you give him credit for that to the point where he is a LOT more trustworthy to have behind closed doors with lobbyists and the political machine, than others. He stands for values and commitments so basic to the ideals of this country, and to liberty for all, and so few do, that he gets support across boundaries.

talkingpointes · Apr 12, 2013

sailingaway said:
I'm with Lew that Ron Paul is my pick, personally.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/135445.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

But I do think the way Manning is being treated is disgraceful. It is just tricky because he obviously knew he was breaking rules and going against orders, and was in the army, so 'should' keep information confidential. He knew he was breaking those rules and took responsibility, imho, for the natural consequences. I just think the consequences he is getting for that action are beyond the pale, because our government acted badly and was shown to act badly and was embarrassed, and is outright getting revenge, not because of any national secrets being given out.

But he couldn't of got the information other wise. The army is on an intranet.

talkingpointes · Apr 12, 2013

sailingaway said:
I'm not sure that is actually what he did. He showed that we were lied to and being manipulated and a bunch of other stuff, but actually, I don't think there was anything definitive that was that major -- which is why the charges against him are such bunk. What it did do is make people QUESTION and that was, indeed, good. I didn't say what he did was unpatriotic, but when you patriotically go against army rules and give out private info and are in the army, you also know what consequences you are getting -- up to a point. Had he been dishonorably discharged, I'd have accepted it without blinking. And would still have been glad to have the information. What he is getting done to him, though, is MORE shameful in terms of intentional bad conduct, and the administration is doing it to itself.

I just see a distinction between him and Assange, who breached no duty and just published it. (Assange's rape charge can rise or fall on its own merits, apparently it had to do with not wearing a condom, and Sweden didn't seem interested in it until the US government started pushing it to get to Assange.)

I agree. Ron is Ron, he doesn't pander to anyone, and if you dislike X or Y about him, if you are honest, you give him credit for that to the point where he is a LOT more trustworthy to have behind closed doors with lobbyists and the political machine, than others. He stands for values and commitments so basic to the ideals of this country, and to liberty for all, and so few do, that he gets support across boundaries.

Collateral Damage - He showed us video of the US murdering people, (not at war, just killing) kids - and 2 of the people were journalist. He showed us what really happened. And the actual video - not some storied testimony.

sailingaway · Apr 12, 2013

talkingpointes said:
Collateral Damage - He showed us video of the US murdering people, (not at war, just killing) kids - and 2 of the people were journalist. He showed us what really happened. And the actual video - not some storied testimony.

I remember that but was it Manning's I had thought that was before Manning, and yeah, I guess I saw that as confirmation, not new news, but it was confirmation people had to take seriously. But it wasn't something like ship movements for an attack in war or something that was the kind of thing I would think the rules were to protect. But people on the line aren't supposed to be making their own judgments so even if it was a good thing to get out for the country, and malum prohibitum not in se, he knew he was doing something he had agreed not to do, and that there would be consequences.

I'm not saying it wasn't good to get the information out, but if you take a risk, you take on that risk yourself. The system does have to do something about people on the line deciding for themselves what should be secret and publishing what they think shouldn't be, because they can't have the official authority to make those calls. However, as with illegal orders, at some point there is a countervailing duty as well. BUT you know what you are getting into.

I am certainly not AGAINST Manning, I just think that discipline in the army is there for a reason and to some extent official action is necessary to preserve that, but that this goes way beyond not condoning an action, into unacceptable revenge.

CaseyJones · Apr 12, 2013

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles...rves-nobel-peace-prize-more-than-barack-obama

Army Pfc. Bradley Manning, who is accused of providing an enormous stash of classified government documents to WikiLeaks for publication, deserves a Nobel Peace Prize more than President Barack Obama, according to former Texas Rep. Ron Paul.

"While President Obama was starting and expanding unconstitutional wars overseas, Bradley Manning, whose actions have caused exactly zero deaths, was shining light on the truth behind these wars," the former Republican presidential contender told U.S. News. "It's clear which individual has done more to promote peace."

Manning was nominated for the award in 2011, 2012 and again earlier this year. Obama won the award in 2009.

Ron Paul: Bradley Manning Promotes Peace More Than Obama

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