Purity Tests and Assertions of Betrayal by RP's Supporters of RP Supporters

free.alive

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Yeah, I said it. All because some people see it prudent to vote for John McCain.

You know, I've been fighting this fight since last spring, and have committed my life to this movement in my state. I've postponed school, quit my job for sporadic work, sacrificed time with my family, let enjoyable but not crucial friends, become financially unstable, and allowed my relationship to become unstable. Compared to many, these are but trifling inconveniences, but nonetheless I've seen it all as worth it if I can make even the slightest difference in sustaining this movement.

I will not be voting voting for John McCain, but only because he has no chance of winning here. If it were close, I would.

I hate him. I see him as dangerous to our country and the lives of many Americans and foreigners, and potentially fatal for all that is good about the Republican Party.

But Barack Obama is Satan... just kidding.

However, Obama is the most dangerous politician who has ever actually had a chance of winning the presidency. You scoff, you who repeat slogans regarding the lesser of two evils. Your inanities allow you to mislead yourselves.

No cute and rallying bromide can reverse the fact that Obama, a committed Marxist-Leninist since his youth, may take the presidency with super-majorities in both houses of Congress. Three Supreme Court judges are just waiting to retire and would likely finally feel safe in doing so. Probably only Harry Truman could boast entering the Presidency with a larger, more invasive government. No, wait - the technology at the disposal of today's Federal state makes the forties look like the stone age.

Obama is Castro, Ben Bella, Chavez at least. A worst case scenario could conjure a likeness to history's other totalitarian narcissists who were the centers of personality cults.

McCain is dangerous because he has no underlying political philosophy, is a pawn of whomever would control him, is independent only in his bursts of irrational anger, and he's a populist. But he's maligned by most in his party, he'd be in power with the opposition party controlling the rest of the government, and best of all he would be easier to remove in two years than Obama - if he were to make it that long.

Again, Obama is a committed Marxist-Leninist. He is at the center of a personality cult. He, and other leaders in his party which will have total control, are advocating a "New New Deal," the likes of which the original will pale in comparison to. He is already going after private citizens who mock him. He and his controlling party will bring in the i-Patriot Act, or the fairness doctrine plus.

Obama will make George Bush look like a saint, like T. Jefferson himself. And you purists who shoot down those who admit that, while there is no good choice to be made this time around, their patriotism shows them that in good conscience they can still protect their country from something - instead of merely encouraging third parties to siphon off good patriots from political parties in which they could actually make a difference to this country.

And all because some of us can't handle the fact we got slapped around at some conventions, or because there is simply no obvious easy choice this time.

Your vote doesn't matter... but especially so if you waste it on a third party. That's right, I don't see how futility is good for one's conscience.

That said, here in WA I think I'm leaving the President slot blank, even though I could vote for Baldwin. Nice guy, very Ron Paul-esque. But to vote third party is to encourage them.

I agree with Mike Rothfeld of the Real Politics Training School (yes I represented my CD in Minneapolis): all a third party is good for is using them to cause pain. I would add: Not for making you feel better about yourself.

My advice (let the attacks come!) - if you're in a swing state, be a patriot, swallow your pride, still your nerves, and pull the lever for McCain. Then wake up the next morning and commit yourself to remaking the GOP.

Commence the abuse...
 
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No one here would argue that he isn't bad--very bad. But, first, McCain really is no better. And secondly, how can we demonstrate that our vision is superior until people have to suffer through his for a little while?

The economy is headed down the drain. I don't see any way for whomever is elected this year to win reelection.

In order to stop the madness we have to give the mad enough rope to hang themselves with, imo. If that weren't necessary, I expect we'd have done better in the primaries...

Makes me sad, but what can one do? I don't guess it's the best analogy to use under these unique circumstances, but I don't know a better one to illustrate my point. Give him the rope and let him hang himself, his party and his whole philosophy.

This was the response by acpTulsa to the post "Why I Have Changed My Mind."


To me, this is the best argument for not helping McCain squeak by. But we are definitely playing with fire. We are coming ever closer to a point we may not be able to return from. By helping McCain tank, we're conceding everything to our greatest possible political enemy. Here I think the risk is just too great, and no matter how willfully ignorant and complacent the 'sheeple' are, they don't deserve what's coming.
 
I don't think you should sacrifice your conscience to try to clean up a mess others caused, and have no plans to clean up. This vote for whoever most every one is voting for goes on every election. It hasn't worked yet, and is the leading cause why GOOD PRINCIPLES are disappearing more and more from elections. Its the definition of insanity. It never works.

Keep your own soul. Vote for who you honestly think is the best candidate. This other idea has no place in a true election, and isn't based in the principles of the candidate or principles itself.

If Obama wins, and is a bad choice, it will not because you didn't vote for McCain, a bad choice, it was because those voters wouldn't vote for a real American choice.

Proverbs 22:15. "Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die."
 
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The thing about Obama is that we just don't know what he is going to do. Maybe he will govern like Bill Clinton in order to be popular or maybe he will govern like Stalin. I suspect he will be more like Stalin but I'm biased. There are so many unkowns with Obama he could be anything from a run of the mill bad president to an Islamic terrorist sleeper cell.
 
My advice (let the attacks come!) - if you're in a swing state, be a patriot, swallow your pride, still your nerves, and pull the lever for McCain. Then wake up the next morning and commit yourself to remaking the GOP.

Commence the abuse...

If McCain was so desperate for votes, he'd clearly be seeking them. I've yet to see him come for any openly, other then to send some of his agents to mouth words and fears to what will happen if he is not elected.

If he honestly wants votes, let him ask for them honestly, and owe something for them. Then I'll reject him honestly again, but at least let it be in broad daylight for others, without the fear mongerling, anger, or prideful sneakness.
 
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BeFranklin -

Great point. You made me think a little about my own relationship to voting. I despise most politicians, anyone for that matter who exerts power over my life. Yet I've always opted to put my two cents in, rather than avoiding the whole process. Therefore, except for my first time voting when I didn't know any better, I've always voted against.

However absurd my approach may sound, maybe it is better than accepting the delusion that there are politicians worth voting for, of course outside of extreme exceptions. In that vein, the only better approach would be to not only NOT vote at all, but to also campaign to get as many other people as possible to not vote.
 
The song remains the same.

Every four years, the same old broken record. Don't vote for decent person who is trying to make a difference because if you do, your worst fears will all be realized. Only a vote for a corrupt, career politician who has never done an honest day's work and who has already been caught with his hand in the cookie jar on numerous occasions will save America from certain death.

No one notices that the burial rites have already been read and the grass has grown tall over the grave that encases what once was the land of the free and the home of the brave.
 
For what purpose? Surely, something beyond futility is intended!

Why vote at all? You could be voting for someone decent. Heretofore, decent people generally don't get elected. Why is that?

Civic duty? The vote may just be the lowest form of political action. It is responsible for only one vote.

Can't it be said that every vote against the loser is a vote for the winner. Therefore, even by not directly voting for a 'lesser evil,' you are still voting in one of the two. It's an inescapable paradox unless you can control the nomination process and therefore be able to both vote and garner votes FOR a candidate who actually has a chance of winning.

Otherwise, you are only causing one of the two evils... pain. Thus, we are all sadists!
 
I think they're BOTH pawns being played by the same people, so the outcome will be essentially the same either way. Obama is a MUCH better liar, cheat and thief than McCain, and even Clinton for that matter, which is saying a lot. Kinda reminds me of Rome, I'll be handing out free matches when Obama starts his redistribution...:)
 
I absolutely hate McCain. But I can't think of anything worse than Obama as president. I really don't think the country will ever be the same after him. We never recovered after FDR and he will do more. His cult following will worship while he oppresses us too. Obama is not just your run of the mill democrat. I am in CA and it is one of the bluest states so my vote really doesn't mean much. So I voted for Barr with a clean conscious. But if I was in a swing state I would seriously consider voting for McCain.
 
I'm swallowing my pride, holding my nose, and hoping that Obama loses by pulling the lever for McCain....or rather, touching the Diebold screen for McCain...not for party, not for the GOP, but so that Obama doesn't get me vote. I will NOT cast a futile vote for a third party, and I will NOT abstain - both of which are a a vote for Obama.

I've never supported the idea of voting third party, nor have I entertained the idea...just look at my past posts about the issue...

Either way it goes, we're fucked...but if Obama wins, we'll be really, really, really, really, really, FUCKED.

Y'all Baldwin and Barr folks go ahead and make your tolken votes, stick it to the GOP, and give Obama his win. Your logic is like that of a man who tries to cure his headache by hitting himself in the head with a hammer; or a child who gets angry cuz his mom didn't give him a cookie, so he punches his mom, and breaks the cookie jar.
 
The shills are worling full time now.

What i dont understand is why anyone who claims to be for the liberty movement,would come to these boards to explain why they are going to vote for McWar?:confused:

Why the drama?Do you really think anyone gives a crap for the tortured,and twisted reasoning of your decision?Really?

No,it is nothing but a sad attempt to create drama.
Gonna vote McBama?
Keep it to yourself.



SithMcCain.jpg
 
What i dont understand is why anyone who claims to be for the liberty movement,would come to these boards to explain why they are going to vote for McWar?:confused:

Why the drama?Do you really think anyone gives a crap for the tortured,and twisted reasoning of your decision?Really?

No,it is nothing but a sad attempt to create drama.
Gonna vote McBama?
Keep it to yourself.



SithMcCain.jpg

I tend to agree. People need to think before they post and understand that 90% of the posters on here agree on the same end. This isn't directed specifically at the OP, but we must march together under the fundamental ideas and values that unite us and not fret on the minute ones that divide us.

Whether you choose Barr or Baldwin on principle, or McCain or Obama as the lesser of the two evils, those arguments are completely irrelevant compared to the challenges we have ahead.
 
I agree with blocks. That said, I encourage people to refuse to support evil. The Rs are fear mongering as usual, but that doesn't mean it's real -- McCain could end up being worse than Obama.

The key for me is this: I am morally responsible for the behavior of whomever I vote for, should they win -- especially if they behave as could have been expected at the time of my vote. If offered the choice of two candidates who will continue to support theft and murder, I will not try to pick out differences between them, I rather choose not to support theft and murder. Because in the end, I can live as an honorable person who supports what is right, but who lives in a country who has chosen evil. I cannot live as a person who has endorsed and enabled the evil.

To put it another way, if a murderer held a gun to two people's heads and told me, "choose who will die". I would not start considering the age or heath of the persons involved. I would instead respond, "I will not participate in your evil game. Your disgusting actions are yours alone".

Finally, I cannot live with the idea that if everyone reasoned and acted as I, we would be in the same mess we're in now. That is the definition of being part of the problem -- and it's not a hypothetical. A very real reason we continue to find ourselves with such garbage candidates continuing to be elected is precisely because people buy into the "lesser of two evils" or the 3rd party as "throwing your vote away" notions. What good is knowledge if one continues to fall into the traps set for the ignorant?
 
Nothing sucks more than selling your soul and voting for the "lesser evil", then LOSING- I know- I voted for George Bush Sr. in 1992. Talk about a wasted vote!

You will sell out, vote for an asshole, and he's going to LOSE anyway. I guarantee that if you have a soul, you will regret it.

You can suck on that all day Wednesday and for the next four years until you get a chance to redeem yourself.
 


can i borrow this? wasn't ron paul saying we all
ought to go third party now? i a.s.a.p can think
of bob barr and ralph nader, or chuck baldwin!!!

admittedly a vote for mccain/palin is a vote for PALIN in 2012...
she may actually be a quiet rEVOLUTIOn person. when
she kills a moose with her rifle, she eats the same in
a stew. the meat is cut up into small chunks so to cook okay...
 
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Obama may be sweeping in Arizona as i type this... he's sweeping amoungst the very young who can LEGITIMATELY VOTE!
 
Nothing sucks more than selling your soul and voting for the "lesser evil", then LOSING- I know- I voted for George Bush Sr. in 1992. Talk about a wasted vote!

You will sell out, vote for an asshole, and he's going to LOSE anyway. I guarantee that if you have a soul, you will regret it.

You can suck on that all day Wednesday and for the next four years until you get a chance to redeem yourself.

Don't I remember you saying at one time that you were voting for Obama? :eek:
 
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