Obama: We Are Not a Christian Nation

[Patriot123]

For once, I couldn't agree more with Obama. Funny how the neoconservatives are going after him for saying, "America is not a Christian nation." Honestly, this is really getting me po'd. We are NOT a Christian nation. And to hear morons like Hannity and Savage say that we are is a disgrace. What made this country so great? Why did so many people immigrate to this country? Because America wasn't some quasi religious state bent on making everyone a member of their own religion. It wasn't a nation where you were expected to bow down to another religion. It was a nation where everyone was equal. Where everyone had rights. Not some religious crap nation. Why is it that the terms Christianity, bible, Jesus, Moses, etcetera aren't in the Constitution? Why did none of the founders express that this country was a religious nation? It's disgusting what these neocons are doing to this nation. Moreso than the liberals. We are NOT a religious country.

 

[phixion]

Oh yes you are. Perhaps not technically, but oh you are.

Pete

 

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

Oh for cripes sake.

For once, I couldn't agree more with Obama. Funny how the neoconservatives are going after him for saying, "America is not a Christian nation." Honestly, this is really getting me po'd. We are NOT a Christian nation. And to hear morons like Hannity and Savage say that we are is a disgrace. What made this country so great? Why did so many people immigrate to this country? Because America wasn't some quasi religious state bent on making everyone a member of their own religion. It wasn't a nation where you were expected to bow down to another religion. It was a nation where everyone was equal. Where everyone had rights. Not some religious crap nation. Why is it that the terms Christianity, bible, Jesus, Moses, etcetera aren't in the Constitution? Why did none of the founders express that this country was a religious nation? It's disgusting what these neocons are doing to this nation. Moreso than the liberals. We are NOT a religious country.

Have you ever attended a college?

 

[yongrel]

Flamewar in 5... 4... 3...

(I reserve the privilege of participating in said flame war.)

 

[jkm1864]

Apparently You are looking at history with Athiest colored glasses. I swear You people hate God so much You are blind to the truth. There was many letters and speaches gave by our leaders that had the term GOD in them. This country was once a majority Christian nation and one thing they wanted was religious freedom due to all the damn witch burnings in europe. Today it is not a Christian nation because look around You. This country is a disgrace and will fall soon because the people lack the certain principles that made this country great. Oh I do look forward to the collapse though because people tend to become more conservative the poorer they are and more liberal the richer they are.

 

[SeanEdwards]

Flamewar in 5... 4... 3...

(I reserve the privilege of participating in said flame war.)

I almost had a flame eruption... but in the time it took me to type out my righteous fury I cooled off. Freakin bible-thumpers. I wish the rapture would hurry up and come so those fruits would vacate the scene permanently.

 

[hypnagogue]

Oh, religion, the greatest divider in human history. Is there any wonder I want no part in it? Obama isn't all bad of course. Very few people are. Still, I can't vote for him.

 

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

Theological philosphers versus Natural philosophers. Both in Church.

I almost had a flame eruption... but in the time it took me to type out my righteous fury I cooled off. Freakin bible-thumpers. I wish the rapture would hurry up and come so those fruits would vacate the scene permanently.

Every significant form of human endeavor outside of knitting was a direct result of the Church. This is why they have basic courses in college so professors can steer naive students away from historical fallacy.

 

[Patriot123]

Apparently You are looking at history with Athiest colored glasses. I swear You people hate God so much You are blind to the truth. There was many letters and speaches gave by our leaders that had the term GOD in them. This country was once a majority Christian nation and one thing they wanted was religious freedom due to all the damn witch burnings in europe. Today it is not a Christian nation because look around You. This country is a disgrace and will fall soon because the people lack the certain principles that made this country great. Oh I do look forward to the collapse though because people tend to become more conservative the poorer they are and more liberal the richer they are.

'Blind to the truth?' Are you seriously kidding? No, really, it's a serious question.

And yes, so what if they had the term god in them. They never said that we were a Christian nation. They were Deists. Sure, some Christians, but they all had the same principles. To NOT create another Christian Great Britain. Did they ever say in the Federalist Papers that we were a religious nation? Did they ever say anywhere else that we were a religious nation? Why is it that in the Treaty of Tripoli it says, "The Government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion?" Why is it that Christianity, bible, Jesus, Moses, Torah, Judeo-Christian or any of those other terms not mentioned in the Constitution? Why is it that only seven percent of the country belonged to a Church when the Declaration of Independence was signed? Why is it that in the Declaration of Independence it says "Nature's God" and "the Laws of Nature?" Why is it that Jefferson, Adams, Paine and Madison said all of the following?

"I have examined all the known superstitions of the word, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth."

"The clergy converted the simple teachings of Jesus into an engine for enslaving mankind and adulterated by artificial constructions into a contrivance to filch wealth and power to themselves...these clergy, in fact, constitute the real Anti-Christ."

Christianity...(has become) the most perverted system that ever shone on man. ...Rogueries, absurdities and untruths were perpetrated upon the teachings of Jesus by a large band of dupes and importers led by Paul, the first great corrupter of the teaching of Jesus."

"Where do we find a precept in the Bible for Creeds, Confessions, Doctrines and Oaths, and whole carloads of other trumpery that we find religion encumbered with in these days?"

"The doctrine of the divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity." Adams signed the Treaty of Tripoli. Article 11 states: "The Government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion."

Thomas Paine: "I would not dare to so dishonor my Creator God by attaching His name to that book (the Bible)." "Among the most detestable villains in history, you could not find one worse than Moses. Here is an order, attributed to 'God' to butcher the boys, to massacre the mothers and to debauch and rape the daughters. I would not dare so dishonor my Creator's name by (attaching) it to this filthy book (the Bible)." "It is the duty of every true Deist to vindicate the moral justice of God against the evils of the Bible." "Accustom a people to believe that priests and clergy can forgive sins...and you will have sins in abundance." And; "The Christian church has set up a religion of pomp and revenue in pretended imitation of a person (Jesus) who lived a life of poverty."

James Madison: "What influence in fact have Christian ecclesiastical establishments had on civil society? In many instances they have been upholding the thrones of political tyranny. In no instance have they been seen as the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wished to subvert the public liberty have found in the clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate liberty, does not need the clergy." Madison objected to state-supported chaplains in Congress and to the exemption of churches from taxation. He wrote: "Religion and government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together."

Our founders did in fact believe in god. But they did not make this country a country based on one religion. They made this country so that people could be free from being told how to run their lives. That is what made this country great. Not the bible. I"m tired of hearing from people who value the Vatican more than our nation say that we're a Christian nation. I'm sorry, but really. I don't... I don't understand how someone could believe that we are a Christian nation. Because we aren't. Not in any such way.

 

[hypnagogue]

Every significant form of human endeavor outside of knitting was a direct result of the Church.

Just wow....

 

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

Apparently You are looking at history with Athiest colored glasses. I swear You people hate God so much You are blind to the truth. There was many letters and speaches gave by our leaders that had the term GOD in them. This country was once a majority Christian nation and one thing they wanted was religious freedom due to all the damn witch burnings in europe. Today it is not a Christian nation because look around You. This country is a disgrace and will fall soon because the people lack the certain principles that made this country great. Oh I do look forward to the collapse though because people tend to become more conservative the poorer they are and more liberal the richer they are.

I don't think these young fellows hate God as much as they are just ignorant of history. The idea that religion and science have been at each others throats is absurd since all "scientists" had to be members of the clergy to serve in the Church as natural philosophers.
Even Gallileo wasn't at odds with theologians as much as he was at odds with the faulty logic of Aristotle that the Church had adopted as God's natural laws.
Another naivity is that we someone got our desires for freedom from some other culture outside of our Christian heritage. The ideals of liberty clearly came from our Protestantism and Puritanism.

 

[Zolah]

Being considered a secular country would be nice.

I think Bush&Co specifically use their version of phoney baloney religion to help manipulate opinions.

 

[SeanEdwards]

I don't think these young fellows hate God as much as they are just ignorant of history. The idea that religion and science have been at each others throats is absurd since all "scientists" had to be members of the clergy to serve in the Church as natural philosophers.
Even Gallileo wasn't at odds with theologians as much as he was at odds with the faulty logic of Aristotle that the Church had adopted as God's natural laws.
Another naivity is that we someone got our desires for freedom from some other culture outside of our Christian heritage. The ideals of liberty clearly came from our Protestantism and Puritanism.

There were protestants in ancient Athens?



Edit: I don't hate god, because I don't expend energy hating the imaginary cloud-dwelling friend of fools. I hate pompous bible-thumpers who insist on forcing their stupid fantasy shit into my life.

 

[sophocles07]

There were protestants in ancient Athens?

Seriously. Uncle Watkins sounds like a hillbilly drinking moonshine when he talks like this.

 

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

This is a one of those piss off the Christian threads.

Oh yes you are. Perhaps not technically, but oh you are.

Pete

I assume you are speaking of our secular culture over here. We could be atheist until blue in the face and that wouldn't change our secular Christian culture.

 

[Patriot123]

I don't think these young fellows hate God as much as they are just ignorant of history. The idea that religion and science have been at each others throats is absurd since all "scientists" had to be members of the clergy to serve in the Church as natural philosophers.
Even Gallileo wasn't at odds with theologians as much as he was at odds with the faulty logic of Aristotle that the Church had adopted as God's natural laws.
Another naivity is that we someone got our desires for freedom from some other culture outside of our Christian heritage. The ideals of liberty clearly came from our Protestantism and Puritanism.

Ignorant of history? Um, no. Unless you're studying to become a history major, I don't believe you have the right to comment there. And of course they had to [scientists]. Because if they didn't bow down to the Church they'd be killed. Or they'd do to them what they did to Galileo. Religion is a poison. It divides humanity. Science has essentially proved religion to be a story with funny characters and names. And NO, they absolutely DID NOT. They came in the time period of the French revolution. The French came up with the idea of liberty. They got it because they were being oppressed by their monarchy. When we founded our country, we essentially stole their ideas.

 

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

You are rolling your eyes at the truth, Junior.

There were protestants in ancient Athens?



Edit: I don't hate god, because I don't expend energy hating the imaginary cloud-dwelling friend of fools. I hate pompous bible-thumpers who insist on forcing their stupid fantasy shit into my life.

Duh. Err. Aristotle wasn't even known in Western Europe until the 13th century ACE. That would be After the Common Era. He was introduced into Europe by Arab Moor philosophers in southern Spain. Then Christian philosopher Saint Thomas Aquinas incorporated Aristotle's works into the Catholic Church as God's natural laws. This later became the foundation for Western science.

 

[SeanEdwards]

"Goodness did not exist on this earth, until the reverend Falwell gave us the teachings of our lord and savior! Blessed be the bloody blood of the lamb. Hallelujah! Has anyone seen the keys to my hoveround?"

 

[Truth Warrior]

Obama agreed with George Washington on that one.

 

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

Ignorant of history? Um, no. Unless you're studying to become a history major, I don't believe you have the right to comment there. And of course they had to [scientists]. Because if they didn't bow down to the Church they'd be killed. Or they'd do to them what they did to Galileo. Religion is a poison. It divides humanity. Science has essentially proved religion to be a story with funny characters and names. And NO, they absolutely DID NOT. They came in the time period of the French revolution. The French came up with the idea of liberty. They got it because they were being oppressed by their monarchy. When we founded our country, we essentially stole their ideas.

Liberty didn't originate from a Greek idea. It originated from a our deeply rooted Christian secular culture. Catholic Protestants. English Puritans. If it didn't originate from the age of faith (Christianity) then it had to originate from the Greeks (age of reason). We got the idea of Democracy from the Greeks. Not freedom.