Libertarians are Evil????

[LibertasPraesidium]

http://gawker.com/5840024/ron-pauls-campaign-manager-died-of-pneumonia-penniless-and-uninsured

The comments on this page make a great many assumptions about libertarians and the heartless bunch that no longer want to be burdened by taking care of those who refuse to take care of themselves. I am confused as to how many of the comments on their even make sense, let alone believe that it is the responsibility of all to give money to the government to take care of those who refuse to take care of themselves.

This is just one of the articles that tried to spin the tragedy of Kent Snyder as what they call Ron Paul's Version of freedom, letting people die. Absolutely absurd. It baffles me that people would try to explain things in such an obviously slanted way simply to cause people to hate libertarians.

 

[D.A.S.]

There's been nothing but trouble coming from Gawker. Has anything good come from Gawker in terms of rational thinking and fair reporting?

 

[jason43]

Think Progress had a similar article. Complaining about Libertarian incompassion and full of comments about 'Karma' and 'Got what he deserved' These people are borderline inhuman. Completely sickening, but this is what we're up against.

 

[ronpaulhawaii]

Charity and Social Justice

2011 SEPTEMBER 16

by admin

Mutual commitment to society is a moral code; a value known as charity. IMO it is a natural trait of humanity rooted in the instinct of “survival of the species”. Charity has always existed, whether based on a government model or not.

History teaches us that Big Government solutions merely create bigger cracks for the unfortunate to fall through. Intentions aside, this is a fact. No human system is perfect, that is another fact.

So the question regarding social safety nets becomes one of, “which system insures the greatest peace and prosperity for the widest swath of humanity?”

I follow the lead of Dr. Paul, and those throughout history who have shown that the republican form of government does this best. A system where power flows up from the common man:

Individual>Family>Community>County>State>Federal

History reveals that this is the most “ideal balance” so far developed. Unfortunately, this system is out of balance and has been turned on its head over the last many decades. This is what the Ron Paul r3VOLution strives to re-balance. And I believe what Ron Paul means by: Restore America Now

I fully believe that our system is supposed to be one of community empowerment, not national dictates. And I further believe adherence to the rule of law, the US Constitution, provides the greatest peace and prosperity to the widest range of individuals.

http://www.maresco.us/opinion/charity-and-social-justice

 

[michaelkellenger]

Why do people post the same stories over and over again. We really need a feature on the forum that detects "like threads" and lets the poster know there are these threads with similar information/title before posting.

 

[LibertasPraesidium]

Sorry about my secondary posting of the gawker column, did a search and didnt find the article listed, may have typed in something wrong. thanks for the clarification ronpaulhawaii.

 

[Eric21ND]

Why do people post the same stories over and over again. We really need a feature on the forum that detects "like threads" and lets the poster know there are these threads with similar information/title before posting.

+2012

I think people do it on purpose its such a common occurrence. They're usually negative themed stories that get posted numerous times, makes you wonder...

 

[acptulsa]

Yeah, we're so heartless we bridle at attempts to steal from the poor and give to the rich. Like taking federal tax money from people in Wyoming and using it to provide subsidized passenger trains to the people of Wilmington, for example...

 

[kojirodensetsu]

Libertarianism gets a bad rep from a lot of people. A lot of people see libertarianism as a 'diet anarchy' without really even bothering to look into it.

 

[LawnWake]

Seeing as the posterboys for libertarians are largely white middle aged men who talk about 'not feelin' bad 'bout makin' money' what do you expect? It projects a certain image of libertarianism being anarchism for the priviliged.

Anyone see the debate from a year ago between Wayne Allyn Root and some socialist kid?



Guys like him are the reason that libertarianism (understandbly) gets a bad rep and he was picked to run as VP in 2008 by the Libertarian Party? C'mon. We need less dumbass Cold War talking points and more people out there adressing how freedom will help everyone, especially the poorest.

 

[Diurdi]

Which more compassionate: Forced redistribution of wealth or voluntary charity?

 

[sailingaway]

Think Progress had a similar article. Complaining about Libertarian incompassion and full of comments about 'Karma' and 'Got what he deserved' These people are borderline inhuman. Completely sickening, but this is what we're up against.

People who read thinkprogress uncritically are a lost cause. We are targeting those who know something is wrong, but may not yet know what. They are more critical of articles, and will look to more than one.

 

[timosman]

..

 

[dannno]

Progressives are retarded, they should really be asking why a young person with pneumonia is racking up $400k in hospital bills.. SOMEBODY has to pay that in our current system, but if we had a free market system it probably would have cost 2% of that and it would be affordable for most people.

 

[DamianTV]

The Terms are always Divisive.

Divide and Conquer to create an "enemy" where none had existed before. Strip people away of these labels and all that is left is just people. People that will be more willing to work together, respect and protect those differences, letting those differences become strengths instead of weaknesses.

Trouble is that people remember headlines on many levels. They think what they are told to think. They only want validation. If what they are told is nothing but lies, and that is all the person knows, they will seek validation of that lie. They will always remember "Libertarians are Evil" because it tells people what to feel. Propaganda pushes peoples Self Interests, used to manipulate them. But what is not said is just as important as what is said. What is not said is also the same message, and thats a little trickier to spot. The message they dont hear is "Feel, do not think". Dont look at the world from anyone elses point of view but the one you are told. Dont think for yourself. Dont use Logic. Dont reject ideas of Authority.

The last part of the previous paragraph is probably the most important. Propaganda and Public Indoctrination work together to enslave the minds of all citizens. Schools teach Fixed Habits of Reaction to Authority, as described in the video in the underlined link. What the video doesnt mention is what those Fixed Habits are. So lets list a few of those Fixed Habits and entertain how they can be used to brainwash people. Blindly accept any information that comes from any figure of Authority. Do not challenge the idea. Do not think Logically. You can see where this is going. This is the type of message that Zippy tries to work. He wants people to see him (or them, I still suspect a paid group) as a Figure of Authority, and expects our reactions to be blind and unquestioning. His methods are the same as Gawker's news articles. Attack any opposing ideas and expect the group to accept those ideas.

As [MENTION=10908]dannno[/MENTION] pointed out, Progressives are retarded. What was slightly missed is that "retardedness" is trained into the minds of people that otherwise would have the ability to think for themselves. I know the term "retard" is used too often to describe people with physical and mental disabilities. The "retards" I think we are both referring to is those who DO have the ability to think for themselves, but choose not to. The "willfully ignorant". Brainwashing and Propaganda explains how normal people are subverted into the state of "willful ignorance".

The most important question here I think we can ask is what can we do that will help people break free of their "Willful Ignorance"?

 

[timosman]

The most important question here I think we can ask is what can we do that will help people break free of their "Willful Ignorance"?

 

[r3volution 3.0]

http://gawker.com/5840024/ron-pauls-campaign-manager-died-of-pneumonia-penniless-and-uninsured

The comments on this page make a great many assumptions about libertarians and the heartless bunch that no longer want to be burdened by taking care of those who refuse to take care of themselves. I am confused as to how many of the comments on their even make sense, let alone believe that it is the responsibility of all to give money to the government to take care of those who refuse to take care of themselves.

This is just one of the articles that tried to spin the tragedy of Kent Snyder as what they call Ron Paul's Version of freedom, letting people die. Absolutely absurd. It baffles me that people would try to explain things in such an obviously slanted way simply to cause people to hate libertarians.

Let me save you ~5 years of befuddlement: the vast majority of people are both hostile to liberty and quite thick.

Don't bother trying to either make sense of what they're saying or rationally persuade them.

P.S. Just realized this thread was raised from the dead.

 

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Gawker article excerpt: The bill was handed to Snyder's surviving mother (pictured, left), who was incapable of paying.

The article seems to be short on details. So the bill was "handed to Snyder's surviving mother." And? Surviving relatives generally aren't obligated to pay a deceased debts. Even spouses are limited by law.

Friends launched a website to solicit donations.

So what was the upshot of this? Did they pay the hospital bill? If not, then somebody ate the cost. Doesn't that show there is something wrong with the current system? A system which is not Ron Paul's proposed system.

 

[acptulsa]

LawnWake has a point.

Seeing as the posterboys for libertarians are largely white middle aged men who talk about 'not feelin' bad 'bout makin' money' what do you expect? It projects a certain image of libertarianism being anarchism for the priviliged.

Anyone see the debate from a year ago between Wayne Allyn Root and some socialist kid?



Guys like him are the reason that libertarianism (understandbly) gets a bad rep and he was picked to run as VP in 2008 by the Libertarian Party? C'mon. We need less dumbass Cold War talking points and more people out there adressing how freedom will help everyone, especially the poorest.

The problem is, libertarians are painted as being unfeeling wonks because we get to the heart of matters which are costing the poor. The liberals say 'I feel your pain' and 'Have some free stuff,' and those who have difficulty thinking bite. We tell them how they've gotten to the point where a day's pay doesn't make ends meet and how regulation has caused the prices of this and that to skyrocket, and they just get confused and/or bored. And when we say we're working all this out because we care about people, our comments get deleted from 99% of the world's websites.

It takes some broadcast wattage to get our own propaganda out there. We were just getting good at it when Google demonetized us and shoved us down to page 17,452 on the search engine. The internet was nice while it was free, but they couldn't tolerate that. And now we're back to shouting from rooftops.

 

[DamianTV]

LawnWake has a point.



The problem is, libertarians are painted as being unfeeling wonks because we get to the heart of matters which are costing the poor. The liberals say 'I feel your pain' and 'Have some free stuff,' and those who have difficulty thinking bite. We tell them how they've gotten to the point where a day's pay doesn't make ends meet and how regulation has caused the prices of this and that to skyrocket, and they just get confused and/or bored. And when we say we're working all this out because we care about people, our comments get deleted from 99% of the world's websites.

It takes some broadcast wattage to get our own propaganda out there. We were just getting good at it when Google demonetized us and shoved us down to page 17,452 on the search engine. The internet was nice while it was free, but they couldn't tolerate that. And now we're back to shouting from rooftops.

Agree.

First, "no such thing as a free lunch".

Next, "if you cant find the product, you ARE the product".

Next, in a truly Free Market, no business can compete with a government that provides anything "for free". But since nothing is truly ever free, the costs come from somewhere. I think its the Scale that confuses people in what is free. Such as a "free sample". At the smallest scale of perspective, a person can eat the sample "for free", but stepping back, who ever is giving that "free sample" is incurring that cost as a form of advertisement.

This site is another good example of "free". Josh used to own the site, and he paid out of his own pocket for it, but made it "free" to us. He offset the cost of running the site with donations. How much time do our Site Owners spend on maintaining our "free" site? We arent paying them for their time, and they arent asking that we do pay them to be a part of the community. Getting bigger "free health care" is afforded by either taxation or inflation. Funding has to come from somewhere. In a Free Market, the price is determined by supply and demand. Other things are also factored in, such as time to create a product or provide a service, overhead, and labor costs. But what happens when that "free health care" is used to prohibit competition? Even when it is not, how is "free" paid for? Who incurs those costs? Too often, it is the poorest that pay the highest price for "free".

Its exactly as [MENTION=12430]acptulsa[/MENTION] said, they dont want to hear it when we explain that "free" costs the poor the most. They are taught to listen to non libertarian points of view on what being a libertarian is instead of entertaining the ideas of libertarians themselves. The minds of the controlled are always taught to remain small, only look at the direct "free" in appearance, but not to look at the big picture of the consequences of "free". Its like listening to someone tell you that the Mona Lisa is crap so you never want to see it for yourself. People are taught to only listen to what Figures of Authority say about the Mona Lisa, or "free" or "Libertarian" or "Freedom" but will not look upon the Mona Lisa themselves and decide for themselves whether or not the Mona Lisa was a work of art or if it was crap as they have been repeatedly told.

Censorship is one of those "free" things that is prohibiting the ideas of Libertarian and a truly Free Market ideals from spreading by prohibiting competing ideas, just like a government operated "free" burger shop would prohibit competition from Burger King, and mom and pop shops. Free Speech was supposed to prevent Censorship so we didnt have to shout from rooftops.