jon_perez explain yourself

[Bradley in DC]

[Dr. Paul's agenda for a gold standard] actually sounds more dastardly than a debt-based, fiat-money supply.

In several threads, we have refuted your premises (banks, like other businesses, service their customers, pay interest to depositors, salaries to employees and dividends to shareholders).

Why is Dr. Paul's agenda "more dastardly" when gold is used as money in place of unbacked paper?

Please refute our arguments citing some basic understanding of the works we've cited.

 

[jon_perez]

Now*this* is trolling.

 

[WilliamC]

Answer the question

Greetings All,

Now*this* is trolling.

No, it's just avoiding the question.

William C Colley

 

[jon_perez]

Sorry, Bradley is putting words in other people's mouth... plus I don't know what the whole point of starting a new thread is with my handle in it other than to show the world what a childish jerk he is...

 

[hard@work]

Please answer his questions. As much as we enjoy your petty insults I think you should at least attempt to repudiate the positions presented to you if you disagree. Otherwise your childish behavior is nothing more than a non-contributive irritant.

Thanks.

 

[Green Mountain Boy]

In several threads, we have refuted your premises (banks, like other businesses, service their customers, pay interest to depositors, salaries to employees and dividends to shareholders).

Why is Dr. Paul's agenda "more dastardly" when gold is used as money in place of unbacked paper?

Please refute our arguments citing some basic understanding of the works we've cited.

Isn't Ron Paul only advocating an end to the Federal Reserve monopoly and not necessarily a return to the gold standard?

 

[Bradley in DC]

Sorry, Bradley is putting words in other people's mouth...

The full unaltered quotation:

A possible major flaw with the gold standard?
If an economy were operating on the gold standard and banks loaned out the gold at an interest rate higher than the rate increase of the total gold supply, what's to prevent the bankers from eventually owning all the gold?

This actually sounds more dastardly than a debt-based, fiat-money supply.

There, just your own words now. My question stands, "Why is Dr. Paul's agenda 'more dastardly' when gold is used as money in place of unbacked paper?"

... plus I don't know what the whole point of starting a new thread is with my handle in it other than to show the world what a childish jerk he is...

A new thread because you fail to answer any of our questions. I thought your obfuscation required a singularity of clarity on your point. We await your answer.

 

[Spirit of '76]

As an impartial observer, it seems to me that Bradley is justified in making this thread.

So far jon_perez has persistently avoided addressing any actual policy issues, but seems to have simply set up shop in the Sound Money forum and spent an inordinate amount of time saying that everything Bradley posts is wrong.

The problem is that, even when pressed, he won't say why it's wrong. That comes across as trolling.

Now's your chance to redeem yourself, jon_perez, and actually put forth some real arguments instead of obfuscation and bluster.

I for one am looking forward to your answer to Bradley's questions.

 

[Bradley in DC]

Isn't Ron Paul only advocating an end to the Federal Reserve monopoly and not necessarily a return to the gold standard?

Yes, Dr. Paul's policy prescription would be to have competing currencies (which I support). For a look at his personal preference, please see the links in my signature (or at least Dr. Paul's books, The Case for Gold and Gold, Peace and Prosperity).

 

[jon_perez]

I'm sorry, i think it is quite plain to see that it is my question that has been left unanswered.

The actual quote, in case you were too dim to realize, also contains my reason why a gold standard might be even less desirable than a fiat one.

Bradley has certainly had a chance to give his rebuttal in the original thread (consisting almost entirely of copy-pasted material I might add), so I fail to see what this exercise is about other than to confirm who is the real troll around here.

...have simply set up shop in the Sound Money forum and spent an inordinate amount of time saying that everything Bradley posts is wrong.

Oh great, another disingenuous liar putting words in people's mouth. Are you sure you're not a sock puppet?

 

[jon_perez]

Yes, Dr. Paul's policy prescription would be to have competing currencies (which I support). For a look at his personal preference, please see the links in my signature (or at least Dr. Paul's books, The Case for Gold and Gold, Peace and Prosperity).

So which is "Dr. Paul's agenda" Bradley, competing currencies or a gold standard?? You can't seem to speak with one tongue here...

And also, how can you claim to speak for Dr. Paul at this point in time?

 

[Bradley in DC]

I'm sorry, i think it is quite plain to see that it is my question that has been left unanswered.

The actual quote, in case you were too dim to realize, also contains my reason why a gold standard might be even less desirable than a fiat one.

Bradley has certainly had a chance to give his rebuttal in the original thread (consisting almost entirely of copy-pasted material I might add), so I fail to see what this exercise is about other than to confirm who is the real troll around here.

I started a new thread to ask my own question, thank you very much. I am eager for the answer. No, you do not at all make clear why using gold as money is "more dastardly." No one else seems to understand your point either. Please educate us.

My answers to your questions, as you point out, are in your thread. If you don't understand them, please ask.

 

[jon_perez]

I started a new thread to ask my own question, thank you very much. I am eager for the answer. No, you do not at all make clear why using gold as money is "more dastardly." No one else seems to understand your point either. Please educate us.

My answers to your questions, as you point out, are in your thread. If you don't understand them, please ask.

I do have one question, Bradley, and that is: when are you going to grow up?

 

[Spirit of '76]

Oh great, another disingenuous liar putting words in people's mouth. Are you sure you're not a sock puppet?

Quite certain I'm not, nor am I a disingenuous liar.

I'm just an observer waiting for you to address the issues instead of calling people names, questioning your opponents' credibility, and generally avoiding putting forth any sort of cogent argument.

Do try to stick to the topic, won't you?

 

[hillertexas]

Answer his question, jon_perez.

 

[Bradley in DC]

So which is "Dr. Paul's agenda" Bradley, competing currencies or a gold standard?? You can't seem to speak with one tongue here...

Just as Dr. Paul is personally opposed to abortion and is pro-life but offers a bill to return the issue to the states as the best Constitutional approach, Dr. Paul is personally in favor of a gold standard (as explained clearly in my post with links to Dr. Paul's own books) but Constitutionally favors a Hayekian, or "free banking" approach of competing currencies (which, ideally, would be 100% reserve gold backed for him). There is no confusion on his or mine or most other readers' parts. If you need me to break it down more simply for you, please ask. That's why we're here. We still question why you're here.

If you don't understand the difference between "policy prescription" and "personal preference," please ask.

And also, how can you claim to speak for Dr. Paul at this point in time?

I claim to represent my own views, which happen to be shared by Dr. Paul. He chose me over nearly 1,000 others for my position; I've stayed in close contact with fellow friends in the Congressional office now handling these issues as well as with Dr. Paul himself. He LOVES discussing these issues, and I take some personal pride he's advocating my Hayekian preference over his personal preference as his policy prescription in this campaign. I have claimed that I do understand his views when I wrote them for him and when I cite them, sure.

Please answer my question: Why do you find Dr. Paul's goal of a gold standard inherently "dastardly"?

 

[jon_perez]

Please answer my question: Why do you find Dr. Paul's goal of a gold standard inherently "dastardly"?

Still haven't learned to stop putting words in people's mouths, eh? Nice try at the strawman.

I bet you idolize Karl Rove.

 

[hillertexas]

Still haven't learned to stop putting words in people's mouths, eh? Nice try at the strawman.

Wow, Jon....
can you not answer a question?

 

[Bradley in DC]

Still haven't learned to stop putting words in people's mouths, eh? Nice try at the strawman.

I bet you idolize Karl Rove.

The full unaltered quotation:

Quote:
Originally Posted by jon_perez
A possible major flaw with the gold standard?
If an economy were operating on the gold standard and banks loaned out the gold at an interest rate higher than the rate increase of the total gold supply, what's to prevent the bankers from eventually owning all the gold?

This actually sounds more dastardly than a debt-based, fiat-money supply. Unquote.

There, just your own words now. My question stands, "Why is Dr. Paul's agenda 'more dastardly' when gold is used as money in place of unbacked paper?"

 

[mordechai]

Man, lay off perez. So what if he finds the gold standard "dastardly"? He doesn't like what's going on right now. And he didn't exactly say that he thinks gold sucks as a store of value, or anything else. He simply questioned credit policies in a gold standard system.

Actually, that's the type of questions that need to be asked.

Now, I do remember jon_perez saying at one point he didn't see why we were all putting so much significance in a "heavy yellow metal" I think it was. (correct me if I'm wrong). And he pointed out gold's limited uses. That implies he doesn't see the value of gold. And?

Who are we to write the rules of what someone values? If he doesn't like gold, fine. He'll suffer the consequences, whether they be good or bad. Not up to us to determine value for somebody.

Finally, is perez a troll? No, he isn't. He's a guy that has questions, and so far hasn't seen a good reason to support part of Paul's personal ideas. Whoopty doo. Paul wouldn't force gold on him.

As has already been acknowledged, Paul supports the Hayekian "free banking" model. If perez decides to invest in dollars, yen, Euros, yuan, francs, whatever, it's his decision.

His questioning the gold standard is wise. His wanting answers is wise. You trying to alienate a Paul supporter is not.