Johnson Fox news poll 12, RCP average 9

If there is any doubt that Hillary will win they will manipulate the polls to let Gary in the debates.
 
SilentBull said:
If there is any doubt that Hillary will win they will manipulate the polls to let Gary in the debates.
Click to expand...

They don't maintain their power by going off half-cocked. Clinton will fight the LP's inclusion in the debates unless and until she's 100% sure the LP is drawing more votes from Trump than her.

So far, that cannot be determined. But you can expect every poll from here on out to ask respondents to choose from the two and also to choose from the three. Which Johnson will steal more from has become a mighty interesting question to a lot of people.

It would be fun to start a grassroots refusal to answer any poll that includes only two choices. It wouldn't work, and yet it would. Some will not cooperate, and will answer the two-choice polls anyway. But are any of them among the Johnson voters?
 
Last edited:
RJ Liberty said:
It does seem like it.

Of course, if Gary makes it to 15%, there will be a major MSM push to discredit him and the LP, so expect that as well.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but what form will it take? I've never seen the MSM so distrusted--and have heard of few historical eras, like Hearst's era, where the yellow journalists are so distrusted--as today. They've already taken to extensive reverse psychology. How will they approach this?

Maybe we're more brilliant than we knew. We complain that we can't do what they can because we're a herd of cats. What if we have succeeded since 2008 in turning the voting public into a herd of cats?
 
acptulsa said:
Yeah, but what form will it take? I've never seen the MSM so distrusted--and have heard of few historical eras, like Hearst's era, where the yellow journalists are so distrusted--as today. They've already taken to extensive reverse psychology. How will they approach this?

Maybe we're more brilliant than we knew. We complain that we can't do what they can because we're a herd of cats. What if we have succeeded since 2008 in turning the voting public into a herd of cats?
Click to expand...
mission%20accomplished%20banner%2023423423.jpg
 
I think he may well draw quite a nice number of the Bernie crowd, because he's in favor of pot legalization but more importantly, he's not an asshole that sold his soul to interest groups. Similarly he may draw some of the right who are fed up with the establishment but don't think Trump is the answer as well as some fiscal conservatives who don't care about what people do in their personal life, the libertarian undercurrent in the GOP. Although some will vote for Trump. I really think it's 50/50. I wouldn't be amazed though if he'd draw in more Democrats.
 
luctor-et-emergo said:
I think he may well draw quite a nice number of the Bernie crowd, because he's in favor of pot legalization but more importantly, he's not an asshole that sold his soul to interest groups. Similarly he may draw some of the right who are fed up with the establishment but don't think Trump is the answer as well as some fiscal conservatives who don't care about what people do in their personal life, the libertarian undercurrent in the GOP. Although some will vote for Trump. I really think it's 50/50. I wouldn't be amazed though if he'd draw in more Democrats.
Click to expand...

It seems to me most Bernie supporters who are going 3rd party lean to Jill Stein rather then Johnson.
 
acptulsa said:
Yeah, but what form will it take?
Click to expand...

I expect a treatment I call "the works": The Washington Post will write 18 negative stories about him in a single day, as they did to Sanders, in their rush to protect their golden girl Hillary. Some of the stories will be completely ridiculous, but others will have a kernel of truth to them that will make people feel uncomfortable supporting Johnson/Weld. Fox "News" will have their army of blonde reporters make "icky" faces every time they mention Gary. And, of course, nearly every story that mentions Gary will contain the phrase, "of course, he can't win."

None of these things matter, in the long run, though: the point of this campaign isn't to win the presidency: it's to spread the word of liberty, and that is already happening, with Gary's increased media exposure.

I've never seen the MSM so distrusted--and have heard of few historical eras, like Hearst's era, where the yellow journalists are so distrusted--as today. They've already taken to extensive reverse psychology. How will they approach this?

Maybe we're more brilliant than we knew. We complain that we can't do what they can because we're a herd of cats. What if we have succeeded since 2008 in turning the voting public into a herd of cats?
Click to expand...

Interesting observations. You correctly state the MSM has lost the trust of the American public. Yellow Journalism is rampant, and everyone knows it.

Yes, this election has been messy. But it's not because the electorate has been turned into a herd of cats. It's because the electorate doesn't trust the major parties anymore, people don't trust the media anymore, and many people want real change.

It's possible that Gary will top out at 12% support, and get no further. Even that, though, would be a minor victory: the increased media reporting of libertarian positions has definitely made more people aware. Google searches for "Gary Johnson" and "Libertarian Party" are way up, according to Google, and I suspect related searches like "libertarian" are, as well. Gary and William were on Colbert last night; you can't get more mainstream than CBS.
 
younglibertarian said:
It seems to me most Bernie supporters who are going 3rd party lean to Jill Stein rather then Johnson.
Click to expand...

Naturally. But contrary to any impressions the MSM may have left you with, many unhappy Democrats are quite reasonable. Despite Sanders' success, many doubt whether Washington can be made to do what they want done the way they want it done. They did notice our intransigence and our efforts to reach out to them. We have shaken their faith in "managed" fiat money, and have reminded them that assistance is easier to manage on a more local level than Washington. I can't recall how many times I've told people the Ninth and Tenth Amendments would prevent a constitutional president from jacking with state programs.

People do want change, and Johnson is almost uniquely good at drawing from "both sides of the aisle". I don't know if we got through to them on voting on principle only, but we might not be unacceptable as allies if that makes the horse competitive in the horse race...

I know this: Clinton is formulating a plan of attack in the event this election winds up in the House of Representatives, and we probably should too.
 
Last edited:
younglibertarian said:
It seems to me most Bernie supporters who are going 3rd party lean to Jill Stein rather then Johnson.
Click to expand...

Jill Stein will not be on the ballot in many states. In 2012, the Greens didn't make it onto the ballot in 14 states, and there's little to indicate they will make more progress this year, unfortunately. I've always believed the more choices the American public is given, the better. But GP ballot access, like the CP, is quite limited.
 
luctor-et-emergo said:
I think he may well draw quite a nice number of the Bernie crowd, because he's in favor of pot legalization but more importantly, he's not an $#@! that sold his soul to interest groups. Similarly he may draw some of the right who are fed up with the establishment but don't think Trump is the answer as well as some fiscal conservatives who don't care about what people do in their personal life, the libertarian undercurrent in the GOP. Although some will vote for Trump. I really think it's 50/50. I wouldn't be amazed though if he'd draw in more Democrats.
Click to expand...

I just read about a poll reported by The Guardian. In the poll, they asked Sanders voters who they will vote for when Sanders isn't the nominee. Here's the breakdown:

41% Clinton
15% Johnson
13% Stay home
11% Stein
7% Trump

So, you are right that Gary will draw a good number of Bernie supporters. Others will be voting for Jill Stein, Trump, or just stay home. A minority, only about 40% of Bernie's people, will be voting for Clinton.
 
RJ Liberty said:
I just read about a poll reported by The Guardian. In the poll, they asked Sanders voters who they will vote for when Sanders isn't the nominee. Here's the breakdown:

41% Clinton
15% Johnson
13% Stay home
11% Stein
7% Trump

So, you are right that Gary will draw a good number of Bernie supporters. Others will be voting for Jill Stein, Trump, or just stay home. A minority, only about 40% of Bernie's people, will be voting for Clinton.
Click to expand...

Johnson's already a strong second. He could draw from all the other groups in the end.

They already more than triple our numbers. And the more of them jump in, the more horse race-sensitive voters jump in from "both sides of the aisle".
 
Last edited:
acptulsa said:
Johnson's already a strong second. He could draw from all the other groups in the end.

They already more than triple our numbers. And the more of them jump in, the more horse race-sensitive voters jump in from "both sides of the aisle".
Click to expand...

Once Bernie officially drops out we will see even more support.
 
If you look at the poll, he draws about equally from both sides, so he shouldn't get the shaft from the media.
 
Johnson is consistently showing he will take in as many or more democrat voters than republicans.

See also this poll, which reported that out of an 11% showing Johnson took 6 points from Clinton and 5 points from trump.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Anti Federalist
Fox News national poll taken 9 to 12 Sep: Trump 60 DeSantis 13 - Trump 48 Biden 46
Replies
8
Views
694
PAF
PAF
Anti Federalist
Fox News poll has Trump down 1 against Biden 48 to 49
Replies
0
Views
155
Anti Federalist
Anti Federalist
PAF
Divide and Conquer: The Government’s Propaganda of Fear and Fake News
Replies
1
Views
616
acptulsa
acptulsa
PAF
Selling War: How Raytheon and Boeing Fund the Push for NATO’s Nuclear Expansion
Replies
1
Views
445
PAF
PAF
PAF
Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.’s Battle for Liberty (by Lew Rockwell)
Replies
1
Views
389
PAF
PAF
Back
Top