Is the US national "debt" an illusion?

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Mar 3, 2015
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I tend to agree with many of the forward-thinking viewpoints that are shared on liberty-oriented forums. However, I feel there is misinformation being circulated regarding the US national debt. The core question that must be answered: What is the national wealth?

Private wealth in the US is almost $70 trillion. But dig deeper: What is the mineral wealth in our national parkland? What are the Rocky Mountains, Mendocino County, and ANWR worth? What is the aggregate oil wealth in public lands? What is the value of the US military in the jungle of international relations?

I argue that the $18 Trillion national debt pales in comparison to the national wealth of the United States. There is no better example of this than the revenue generated from Obama's successful energy exploration campaign.

When you take a look at the massive swaths of valuable land held by the federal government, it becomes clear that the total federally-owned real estate, oil, minerals, etc. within the borders of the USA could be valued in the quadrillions of dollars.

One thing has become increasingly clear to me: the United States HAS debt, but it is really not IN debt.

The purpose of the Federal Reserve is to govern the people through the money supply. The threat of hyperinflation or deflationary depression is exaggerated. The resource wealth of the United States - as well as the large, rich, taxable population - provides a backstop that keeps our currency strong, even in expansionary environments.

I believe this backstop is far more valuable than prior generations' use of precious metal reserves. I concede gold and silver are more tangible, but defining the national wealth by reserves of scarce metals is nothing more than a form of social brainwashing intended to keep resource-rich Americans feeling poor.

Conspiracy theorists and John Birchers who measure the national debt against gold reserves are engaging in monetary child's play. However, the Federal Reserve's ability to spend the past decade in crisis while hiding the money supply (M3) from the American public is brilliant. A brilliant scam that must come to an end in the United States, as it has in central banks throughout Europe and across the globe.

The strength of the dollar in FOREX markets in the wake of QE3 invalidates many conspiracy theories. As a market student and participant, I believe the dollar is legitimately strong and would remain strong through QE4, QE5, and QE6.

Is it time to end the myth of false scarcity? Is the easy answer - a dramatic increase in the debt ceiling to fund the Small Business Administration, Farm Service Agency, and regional banks - the best path for the US economy?

Recently an interesting statistic was released. The USA has fewer corporations today than 40 years ago, despite having three times as many citizens. If "corporations are people," do we just need more "people?"

Or is a multi-decade Japanese-style depression a better way to break the will of American men, break the daughters of the revolution into prostitution, seize American's weapons, and ultimately rejoin the British Crown and join the New/Old World Order?

I ask that question only half-sarcastically, because that appears to be the the intent of the current world order, and the path the Untied States is headed. Especially if either Hillary "Forester de Rothschild-RHODam" Clinton, or Jeb "Lehman is now Barclays" Bush are elected president.

This is serious business.

Sure, a new monetary system would be nice. But is a total revolution possible? Perhaps it is time to submit to reality, and finally admit that Reagan was right.

Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of a new hashtag.
 
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... so to whom is the National Debt owed? The people? China? The Federal Reserve?

If the money / currency is owed to the People, why dont we ever get paid for what they "borrowed"? If they dont plan on ever giving that money back, namely the value of our currency, is that not a form of THEFT?
 
Last I checked, China has about eleven percent of it and the Fed about 13 percent. A lot is held in retirement accounts and mutual funds.
 
I tend to agree with many of the forward-thinking viewpoints that are shared on liberty-oriented forums. However, I feel there is misinformation being circulated regarding the US national debt. The core question that must be answered: What is the national wealth?

Private wealth in the US is almost $70 trillion. But dig deeper: What is the mineral wealth in our national parkland? What are the Rocky Mountains, Mendocino County, and ANWR worth? What is the aggregate oil wealth in public lands? What is the value of the US military in the jungle of international relations?

I argue that the $18 Trillion national debt pales in comparison to the national wealth of the United States. There is no better example of this than the revenue generated from Obama's successful energy exploration campaign.

When you take a look at the massive swaths of valuable land held by the federal government, it becomes clear that the total federally-owned real estate, oil, minerals, etc. within the borders of the USA could be valued in the quadrillions of dollars.

One thing has become increasingly clear to me: the United States HAS debt, but it is really not IN debt.

The purpose of the Federal Reserve is to govern the people through the money supply. The threat of hyperinflation or deflationary depression is exaggerated. The resource wealth of the United States - as well as the large, rich, taxable population - provides a backstop that keeps our currency strong, even in expansionary environments.

I believe this backstop is far more valuable than prior generations' use of precious metal reserves. I concede gold and silver are more tangible, but defining the national wealth by reserves of scarce metals is nothing more than a form of social brainwashing intended to keep resource-rich Americans feeling poor.

Conspiracy theorists and John Birchers who measure the national debt against gold reserves are engaging in monetary child's play. However, the Federal Reserve's ability to spend the past decade in crisis while hiding the money supply (M3) from the American public is brilliant. A brilliant scam that must come to an end in the United States, as it has in central banks throughout Europe and across the globe.

The strength of the dollar in FOREX markets in the wake of QE3 invalidates many conspiracy theories. As a market student and participant, I believe the dollar is legitimately strong and would remain strong through QE4, QE5, and QE6.

Is it time to end the myth of false scarcity? Is the easy answer - a dramatic increase in the debt ceiling to fund the Small Business Administration, Farm Service Agency, and regional banks - the best path for the US economy?

Recently an interesting statistic was released. The USA has fewer corporations today than 40 years ago, despite having three times as many citizens. If "corporations are people," do we just need more "people?"

Or is a multi-decade Japanese-style depression a better way to break the will of American men, break the daughters of the revolution into prostitution, seize American's weapons, and ultimately rejoin the British Crown and join the New/Old World Order?

I ask that question only half-sarcastically, because that appears to be the the intent of the current world order, and the path the Untied States is headed. Especially if either Hillary "Forester de Rothschild-RHODam" Clinton, or Jeb "Lehman is now Barclays" Bush are elected president.
This is serious business.

Sure, a new monetary system would be nice. But is a total revolution possible? Perhaps it is time to submit to reality, and finally admit that Reagan was right.

Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of a new hashtag.
Yes it is an illusion , because it is much higher than you may think , I see no unfunded liabilities in this number or interest.Also , it costs money to get minerals out of the ground .You should try it some time.I am available for consulting fees.And yes , it really is in debt .If you mean it cannot be pd and never will , then I agree
, if you mean giving more money to Fed govt , USDA etc , please put down the crack pipe.
 
Apparently not an illusion based on every FRN I've ever seen.

If it is, then why are we paying "illusion" interest billions annually?
 
I guess if you are going to be stupid, you deserve to be poor. All good.

:rolleyes: From your own stupid screed.

The purpose of the Federal Reserve is to govern the people through the money supply. The threat of hyperinflation or deflationary depression is exaggerated. The resource wealth of the United States - as well as the large, rich, taxable population - provides a backstop that keeps our currency strong, even in expansionary environments.

So the debt doesn't matter because the U.S. can tax more rich people? How exactly is your belief system supposed to lift me from poverty?
 
The debt isn't an illusion, it is a real number that will never go down unless paid. Your wealth numbers are illusions though. The next bust that number can be cut in half again. But if you are arguing that there are enough resources the government could confiscate at gunpoint to pay off the debt, you are right. They could steal everything and sell it off and easily pay the debt. If the country's stocks are worthless at that point, they can always have troops put us to work mining resources and whatever else they need to do to pay it. Does that make you feel better? They will have to have you clean up my corpse before you can get back to work in your government mine.
 
I guess if you are going to be stupid, you deserve to be poor. All good.

So why is it the people tasked with keeping other people stupid are the most arrogant people you'll ever meet?

Just off the top of my head--and feel free to substitute some arrogant quip for real answers...

1. When do we borrow enough that all the remaining mineral wealth is not enough to pay off the debt? And more importantly, why? What is the federal government doing to us that is worth spending the entire mineral wealth of the nation in this generation alone--and borrowing to do it now because those minerals can't all be dug up right now?

2. What is productive about all the interest we are paying, and how does it stimulate any economy but the bond market?

3. What are the SBA, the FSA and the satellite Fed banks going to do with the money, and how much more stimulating would it be to simply rid ourselves of the regulations that are stifling and destroying small businesses?

4. While the threat of hyperinflation may well be exaggerated, what about the reality of regular old inflation, which is cutting everyone's pay but CEOs and other stockholders and is making savings evaporate?

5. Would not looking at the increasing wealth and power of the surviving megacorporations in this startup-unfriendly economic environment and saying nothing but 'if corporations are people don't we just need more 'people' just more 'monetary child's play'?

6. Are you going to say what it is that you think Reagan was right about, or are you just going to namedrop?

7. Is this more deserving of a hashtag or is this merely the birth of a hacktag?
 
Is this what passes for hip-liberal these days? Trolling threads and spouting off nonsense about "well we can just force the rich to pay more, forget about unfunded liabilities, and confiscate anything else we can find just to keep our head afloat" ??? Lest we forget that we are talking actual numbers here, not theory. What is owed in terms of actual dollars if you include the debt and unfunded liabilities is IMPOSSIBLE TO PAY OFF...... EVARRRRR. I don't care how much friggin 'minerals' are in the ground. If you also include all the toxic assets (MBS, CDS, etc.) then were are upwards of 500 trillion dollars the taxpayer is on the hook for..... but in your world it's all good because "Obama!"
 
Is this what passes for hip-liberal these days? Trolling threads and spouting off nonsense about "well we can just force the rich to pay more, forget about unfunded liabilities, and confiscate anything else we can find just to keep our head afloat" ??? Lest we forget that we are talking actual numbers here, not theory. What is owed in terms of actual dollars if you include the debt and unfunded liabilities is IMPOSSIBLE TO PAY OFF...... EVARRRRR. I don't care how much friggin 'minerals' are in the ground. If you also include all the toxic assets (MBS, CDS, etc.) then were are upwards of 500 trillion dollars the taxpayer is on the hook for..... but in your world it's all good because "Obama!"

Don't forget that the sole substance of this grand scheme is that we need to borrow more specifically so we can give it to the SBA, the FSA and the regional Feds. I, for one, cannot think of three less useful, less helpful entities. If you want small farms and businesses, history says that you obviously get them by making government smaller, not bigger.

And this 'false scarcity' is all about seizing American arms? Is that why this false scarcity is created specifically for the purpose of borrowing to create arms?
 
The debt isn't an illusion, it is a real number that will never go down unless paid. Your wealth numbers are illusions though. The next bust that number can be cut in half again. But if you are arguing that there are enough resources the government could confiscate at gunpoint to pay off the debt, you are right. They could steal everything and sell it off and easily pay the debt. If the country's stocks are worthless at that point, they can always have troops put us to work mining resources and whatever else they need to do to pay it. Does that make you feel better? They will have to have you clean up my corpse before you can get back to work in your government mine.

Repudiation and default also works wonders, with the added benefit of significantly decreasing the candidate pool of willing future lenders.


"I wish it were possible to obtain a single amendment to our constitution - taking from the federal government their power of borrowing." - Thomas Jefferson
 
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Yeah, the federal government could easily pay off all off its debt just by stealing $11 Trillion from my neighbors. They can afford it.
 
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