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The Tesla battery swap is the hoax of the year
Posted on December 21, 2013 by Alberto Zaragoza Comendador
Even if there WAS a "battery swap" policy- it doesn't make sense. Excerpt from comment section:
Even some Tesla Owners smell a rat (maybe a Muskrat)
http://www.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/when-will-battery-swap-be-available
And there's a Happy Tesla Customer
Here's David CopperMusk scamming taxpayers
The Batteries in a Tesla Model S 85kW weigh more than 1300 pounds.
It takes a lot of juice just to haul around the juice
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2013-tesla-model-s-test-review
.
Posted on December 21, 2013 by Alberto Zaragoza Comendador
What California says about zero-emission vehicles, and why Tesla is committing fraud
I didn’t create this essay because I dislike electric vehicles. While I’m skeptical of their potential, I have nothing against EVs per se.
Sure, electric cars enjoy a laundry list of incentives. I totally disagree with these policies, but a bajillion people have already pointed out why electric car subsidies are dumb. I cannot add much value there, and EV advocates will argue they’re doing nothing illegal anyway.
The fundamental reason this blog exists is to tell the world about the fraud Tesla is committing. This has resulted in tens of millions dollars’ worth of fraudulent carbon credits being received by the company, and if nothing is done the tally will get into the hundreds of millions. This blog exists not to tell people about EV incentives, but about the illegal incentives a particular EV company is getting. I covered much of the same ground in my first post, but here I’ll give California’s own regulations as sources.
You don’t have to take my word for it. Click here and go to slide 13(PDF) . It shows how many Zero Emission Vehicle credits a car gets. ZEVs are divided into seven categories:
This system is regulated by the California Air Resources Board. And by “fast refuelling” they mean refuelling to 95% of capacity within 10 minutes (Type III) or 15 minutes (Types IV and V). This is impossible for batteries, so it could only be done with hydrogen. Indeed, you’ll hear complaints that the regulations are designed to favor hydrogen over batteries. Well, tell California.
The Model S is clearly a Type III vehicle: it gets between 200 and 300 miles, but even in the fastest Superchargers it needs about one hour to reach 95% of battery capacity. Tesla itself quotes 75 minutes for 100% charging. So it gets 4 credits per car…or at least it should. Let’s go back to 2012.
As of June 15, the 85KWh version (called S3 here) was considered a Type III vehicle. But by October 12 it had morphed into a Type V. So the upgrade happened at some point between these two dates. Presumably, the 60KWh version was also upgraded in the same time frame. Here is a December 20 confirmation that both versions had been upgraded, showing how the 60KWh model went from Type III to Type IV. And here is an restatement in April 2013 of basically the same things, but including the cancelled 40KWh version. (CARB doesn’t seem very well organized).
In any case, production of the Model S only ramped up in the last quarter of 2012, so the vast majority of them qualified under the new classification. The real question is, why the upgrade?
Because of the battery swap. If the car can exchange batteries in 90 seconds, then it’s totally crushing the 15-minute requirement established by the California Air Resources Board. Notice that, even in this case, the 85KWh version still doesn’t meet the range requirement to be a Type V vehicle, as it’s rated by the EPA at 265 miles. So it would be stuck at 5 credits. It seems CARB bent the rules a little, or perhaps they concluded that the superb refuelling time “offset” a deficiency in range. In any case it’s no reason for alarm.
What is a reason for alarm is that CARB gave Tesla these extra credits before any battery swap station had been built. In fact, it happened about nine months before the feature was publicly demonstrated (June 2013). I’ve emailed CARB officials and Tesla twice, to find out more about this issue. Did Tesla demo the battery swap to CARB officials? If so, when and where? Did Tesla bring its own car, or does CARB have one for testing purposes? Did CARB officials check and drive the car before, during and after the swap? ...MORE>
----COPYRIGHT SNIP----
FULL ARTICLE: http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/12/21/the-tesla-battery-swap-is-the-hoax-of-the-year/
Check out the comments^^
I didn’t create this essay because I dislike electric vehicles. While I’m skeptical of their potential, I have nothing against EVs per se.
Sure, electric cars enjoy a laundry list of incentives. I totally disagree with these policies, but a bajillion people have already pointed out why electric car subsidies are dumb. I cannot add much value there, and EV advocates will argue they’re doing nothing illegal anyway.
The fundamental reason this blog exists is to tell the world about the fraud Tesla is committing. This has resulted in tens of millions dollars’ worth of fraudulent carbon credits being received by the company, and if nothing is done the tally will get into the hundreds of millions. This blog exists not to tell people about EV incentives, but about the illegal incentives a particular EV company is getting. I covered much of the same ground in my first post, but here I’ll give California’s own regulations as sources.
You don’t have to take my word for it. Click here and go to slide 13(PDF) . It shows how many Zero Emission Vehicle credits a car gets. ZEVs are divided into seven categories:
· Type 0: less than 50 miles, 1 credit
· Type I: 50-75 miles, 2 credits
· Type I.5: 75-100 miles, 2.5 credits
· Type II: 100-200 miles, 3 credits
· Type III: 200+ miles, 4 credits. (Also: 100+ miles with fast refuelling).
· Type IV: 200+ miles with fast refuelling, 5 credits
· Type V: 300+ miles with fast refuelling, 7 credits
· Type I: 50-75 miles, 2 credits
· Type I.5: 75-100 miles, 2.5 credits
· Type II: 100-200 miles, 3 credits
· Type III: 200+ miles, 4 credits. (Also: 100+ miles with fast refuelling).
· Type IV: 200+ miles with fast refuelling, 5 credits
· Type V: 300+ miles with fast refuelling, 7 credits
This system is regulated by the California Air Resources Board. And by “fast refuelling” they mean refuelling to 95% of capacity within 10 minutes (Type III) or 15 minutes (Types IV and V). This is impossible for batteries, so it could only be done with hydrogen. Indeed, you’ll hear complaints that the regulations are designed to favor hydrogen over batteries. Well, tell California.
The Model S is clearly a Type III vehicle: it gets between 200 and 300 miles, but even in the fastest Superchargers it needs about one hour to reach 95% of battery capacity. Tesla itself quotes 75 minutes for 100% charging. So it gets 4 credits per car…or at least it should. Let’s go back to 2012.
As of June 15, the 85KWh version (called S3 here) was considered a Type III vehicle. But by October 12 it had morphed into a Type V. So the upgrade happened at some point between these two dates. Presumably, the 60KWh version was also upgraded in the same time frame. Here is a December 20 confirmation that both versions had been upgraded, showing how the 60KWh model went from Type III to Type IV. And here is an restatement in April 2013 of basically the same things, but including the cancelled 40KWh version. (CARB doesn’t seem very well organized).
In any case, production of the Model S only ramped up in the last quarter of 2012, so the vast majority of them qualified under the new classification. The real question is, why the upgrade?
Because of the battery swap. If the car can exchange batteries in 90 seconds, then it’s totally crushing the 15-minute requirement established by the California Air Resources Board. Notice that, even in this case, the 85KWh version still doesn’t meet the range requirement to be a Type V vehicle, as it’s rated by the EPA at 265 miles. So it would be stuck at 5 credits. It seems CARB bent the rules a little, or perhaps they concluded that the superb refuelling time “offset” a deficiency in range. In any case it’s no reason for alarm.
What is a reason for alarm is that CARB gave Tesla these extra credits before any battery swap station had been built. In fact, it happened about nine months before the feature was publicly demonstrated (June 2013). I’ve emailed CARB officials and Tesla twice, to find out more about this issue. Did Tesla demo the battery swap to CARB officials? If so, when and where? Did Tesla bring its own car, or does CARB have one for testing purposes? Did CARB officials check and drive the car before, during and after the swap? ...MORE>
----COPYRIGHT SNIP----
FULL ARTICLE: http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/12/21/the-tesla-battery-swap-is-the-hoax-of-the-year/
Check out the comments^^
Even if there WAS a "battery swap" policy- it doesn't make sense. Excerpt from comment section:
on December 22, 2013 Greg says:
What does not make sense in the whole process is that you are not going to drive away a leave your $18k battery pack for someone else. This would immediately lose you your guarantee on your $18k investment. You now have a second hand battery pack of unknown origin.
As the general stock of batteries ages, you risk picking up a weak unit for your brand new Tesla at the first “refill”.
The demo, however irrelevant to real life filling station scenarios, seems technically feasible so I doubt it’s a fraud in that sense.
However, since this does not currently exist, even at one single location in the world for customer use, it DOES NOT EXIST. It does not merit a single ZEV point , ever. It is a scam which has been approved and regulated by CARB.
The ordinary man in the street is subsidising rich men’s toys.
Alberto does well to point out this is recognised by CARB but they just kicked it down the road. So it’s not oversight.
What does not make sense in the whole process is that you are not going to drive away a leave your $18k battery pack for someone else. This would immediately lose you your guarantee on your $18k investment. You now have a second hand battery pack of unknown origin.
As the general stock of batteries ages, you risk picking up a weak unit for your brand new Tesla at the first “refill”.
The demo, however irrelevant to real life filling station scenarios, seems technically feasible so I doubt it’s a fraud in that sense.
However, since this does not currently exist, even at one single location in the world for customer use, it DOES NOT EXIST. It does not merit a single ZEV point , ever. It is a scam which has been approved and regulated by CARB.
The ordinary man in the street is subsidising rich men’s toys.
Alberto does well to point out this is recognised by CARB but they just kicked it down the road. So it’s not oversight.
Even some Tesla Owners smell a rat (maybe a Muskrat)
http://www.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/when-will-battery-swap-be-available
Tesla Owner Pungoteague_Dave | August 31, 2013
Battery swap announcement was about marketing. Nothing else. It will NEVER be rolled out at more than one place, and there only for the tax credits. It cannot be automated for existing cars - requires multiple inspections, fluid hook-ups, torque checking, replacement bolts, etc.
My battery swap happened this week in Rockville. My 85's battery went bad in the parking lot at Rockville while waiting for other scheduled service, so they had to replace it. The job took 3 hours of mechanic labor, and 7600 units of ethylene glycol, three seals, two dozen bolts, and a replacement cover (I am looking at the 9-page repair order as I write this). When we asked the service tech about why it took so long since they are designed for swapping (we already knew better), he just laughed.
Elon's swap demonstration was done under a cloak of secrecy, with no transparency as to what was happening under the car - a magician's sleight of hand at its best. A marketing-only answer to a question that becomes moot once you own the car.
Battery swap announcement was about marketing. Nothing else. It will NEVER be rolled out at more than one place, and there only for the tax credits. It cannot be automated for existing cars - requires multiple inspections, fluid hook-ups, torque checking, replacement bolts, etc.
My battery swap happened this week in Rockville. My 85's battery went bad in the parking lot at Rockville while waiting for other scheduled service, so they had to replace it. The job took 3 hours of mechanic labor, and 7600 units of ethylene glycol, three seals, two dozen bolts, and a replacement cover (I am looking at the 9-page repair order as I write this). When we asked the service tech about why it took so long since they are designed for swapping (we already knew better), he just laughed.
Elon's swap demonstration was done under a cloak of secrecy, with no transparency as to what was happening under the car - a magician's sleight of hand at its best. A marketing-only answer to a question that becomes moot once you own the car.
And there's a Happy Tesla Customer
Here's David CopperMusk scamming taxpayers
The Batteries in a Tesla Model S 85kW weigh more than 1300 pounds.
It takes a lot of juice just to haul around the juice
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2013-tesla-model-s-test-review
.
