I want to start a Libertarian movement in my country

[Ibn.AL.Muqafaa]

I live in Lebanon, and I don't know many libertarians where I live
I know only two guys on the internet and they created a Facebook page called "The Lebanese Libertarian Movement" and the page is still small https://www.facebook.com/LebaneseLibertarians/
We would like to expand and start doing something in practice.
Any suggestions and ideas are appreciated.

 

[juleswin]

Make youtube videos/make appearance in other people's youtube video, start a blog, try and write articles for regional papers etc. You have to put yourself/your ideas out there somehow and if possible, pray that a Ron Paul type politician would come around to carry the idea to the masses.

 

[Lamp]

I live in Lebanon, and I don't know many libertarians where I live
I know only two guys on the internet and they created a Facebook page called "The Lebanese Libertarian Movement" and the page is still small https://www.facebook.com/LebaneseLibertarians/
We would like to expand and start doing something in practice.
Any suggestions and ideas are appreciated.

Well judging by the state of Right Wing politics in Lebanon your going to have an easier time convincing people than say a country like India, Pakistan, China or Russia all of which have massive amounts of government intervention and promotion of military worship.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_Lebanon

 

[Lamp]

Just promote good books and pdfs that you think will be helpful in order to promote your cause.

 

[Ibn.AL.Muqafaa]

Make youtube videos/make appearance in other people's youtube video, start a blog, try and write articles for regional papers etc. You have to put yourself/your ideas out there somehow and if possible, pray that a Ron Paul type politician would come around to carry the idea to the masses.

I will write in both Arabic & English, and if someone of these guys knows French that would be great.
The problem with our Lebanese Economy is that we used to have economic prosperity before the 1975 civil war, Lebanon was called the Switzerland of the Middle East/Arab world.
We have a high unemployment and inflation rate, daily power outages at least 3 hours per day, overpriced poor quality internet, polluted environment from the waste management crisis.
We discovered oil on our sea, but our corrupt politicians want to create their own company with subsidies, or make it government run, or have a foreign private company use the oil and the politicians take 20% of their profit.
But our politicians take the profit to fill their pockets instead of investing for economic growth.
The Lebanese people don't have enough money to start a company of their own independent of the politicians

 

[Ibn.AL.Muqafaa]

Well judging by the state of Right Wing politics in Lebanon your going to have an easier time convincing people than say a country like India, Pakistan, China or Russia all of which massive amounts of government intervention and promotion of military worship.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_Lebanon

The problem with Lebanon is that political parties do not rely on Left-Right politics they rely on sectarian politics instead.
In Lebanon we do not have capitalism, sectarian families control the politics.
For example the Joumblat family have strong influence among the Druze sect, and soon enough Walid Joumblat the current leader of the Druze will inherent the leadership to his eldest son.
And in Lebanon your religious sect is stated on your Identification card, if u wanna get a job in Lebanon you need wasta (a form of nepotism in the Middle East) were an individual has connections to a politician.(This also applies to the private sector), Sectarian politicians have a monopoly over the private sector too.
When the politicians want to take a decision or implement a policy or pass a law or something it is debated on the basis of how much money they will gain and allocation of sectarian quotas.

 

[William Tell]

Inb4 Keith says "Just move to New Hampshire"

 

[timosman]

The problem with Lebanon is that political parties do not rely on Left-Right politics they rely on sectarian politics instead.
In Lebanon we do not have capitalism, sectarian families control the politics.
For example the Joumblat family have strong influence among the Druze sect, and soon enough Walid Joumblat the current leader of the Druze will inherent the leadership to his eldest son.
And in Lebanon your religious sect is stated on your Identification card, if u wanna get a job in Lebanon you need wasta (a form of nepotism in the Middle East) were an individual has connections to a politician.(This also applies to the private sector), Sectarian politicians have a monopoly over the private sector too.
When the politicians want to take a decision or implement a policy or pass a law or something it is debated on the basis of how much money they will gain and allocation of sectarian quotas.

Looks like you guys need more diversity.

 

[Ibn.AL.Muqafaa]

Inb4 Keith says "Just move to New Hampshire"

I can't afford immigration.

Looks like you guys need more diversity.

We have diversity, but we need to get rid of the corrupt politicians.

 

[Mikezelot]

Not sure how If any elections work over there but have you tried running for local office?

 

[Origanalist]

I wish you luck. It's hard enough selling liberty here in the 'land of the free'.

 

[Ibn.AL.Muqafaa]

Not sure how If any elections work over there but have you tried running for local office?

Parlimentarians have illegally extended their mandate twice in 2013 and 2014 and now they are considering extendending for a 3rd time.
In Lebanon, we can only elect the parliament, and the parliamentarians elect a president, a prime minister, and the head of the parliament.
The head of the parliament has been extending his term since 1991.
The president has to be a Maronite Christian.
Prime minister, has to be a sunni Muslim.
Head of the parliament has to be a Shia Muslim.

 

[jmdrake]

Inb4 Keith says "Just move to New Hampshire"

LOL. Ironically the South African Libertarian party has made strides that the U.S. Libertarian party could only dream of having taken the mayorship of the largest cities. India has done pretty well too.

Parlimentarians have illegally extended their mandate twice in 2013 and 2014 and now they are considering extendending for a 3rd time.
In Lebanon, we can only elect the parliament, and the parliamentarians elect a president, a prime minister, and the head of the parliament.
The head of the parliament has been extending his term since 1991.
The president has to be a Maronite Christian.
Prime minister, has to be a sunni Muslim.
Head of the parliament has to be a Shia Muslim.

I've always been fascinated with Lebanese politics for ^this very reason. It seems like the sectarian system has been designed to avoid conflicts like the Lebanese civil war, which really grew out of the Palestinian refugee crisis from what I understand. In places like Iraq, Libya, Egypt and Syria, sectarian violence was kept in check by strongmen. From what you've described it sounds like sectarian patronage keeps sectarian violence in check. And that's probably the reason why the system is so hard to change. It kind of sounds like the Mimbari caste system from the sci fi show Babylon 5. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minbari) If I am correct, what's holding your country back is fear. (Same as mine). So....what to do about it? From the Christian perspective perfect love casts out fear. (1 John 4:8) I don't know much about the Muslim perspective, but everything needed for self government at the individual level is in places like Matthew 5. Love your neighbor as yourself. Do unto others as you would have to do unto you. Jesus even said "I judge no one." (John 8:15 You judge by human standards; I pass judgment on no one.) Imagine if all Christians actually lived like that? I know that Islam has a voluntary welfare system just like Christianity. Finding, and encouraging people to come up with solutions outside of government which fill roles that government has taken over, be it education, fighting poverty and hunger, housing or healthcare, is the way to a more libertarian society IMO. Libertarians spend far too much time trying to roll back government and not enough time trying to replace government.

 

[juleswin]

I will write in both Arabic & English, and if someone of these guys knows French that would be great.
The problem with our Lebanese Economy is that we used to have economic prosperity before the 1975 civil war, Lebanon was called the Switzerland of the Middle East/Arab world.
We have a high unemployment and inflation rate, daily power outages at least 3 hours per day, overpriced poor quality internet, polluted environment from the waste management crisis.
We discovered oil on our sea, but our corrupt politicians want to create their own company with subsidies, or make it government run, or have a foreign private company use the oil and the politicians take 20% of their profit.
But our politicians take the profit to fill their pockets instead of investing for economic growth.
The Lebanese people don't have enough money to start a company of their own independent of the politicians

I am not very well read on Lebanese politics but know enough to see that you have been ignoring some issues that make me wonder. I am here wondering why you have said nothing about the very aggressive nuclear armed neighbour you have in your country that would like to take over the region. The country has caused a lot of instability in your country, tried to invade it, caused a refugee crisis when they occupied Palestine etc and yet you fail to mention them in your post.

Also wars do a lot of damage to the infrastructure you know and your issue with electricity and internet connection could be related to the wars you have had. One last thing I want to leave you with is this, virtually all politicians systems have corruption in it. That is how it is and that is always how it is going to be so you gonna have to live with some of it. The issue with the oil "we discovered in our sea" is that this seems to be on a property owned by the country. In this kid of a situation, there are only a few reasonable options to deal with this, the state can try and mine the oil, sell or lease it to private companies. Either way, the politicians would get their hands on the money.

Anyway, what do you want the state to do with this resource that they discovered?

 

[juleswin]

LOL. Ironically the South African Libertarian party has made strides that the U.S. Libertarian party could only dream of having taken the mayorship of the largest cities. India has done pretty well too.



I've always been fascinated with Lebanese politics for ^this very reason. It seems like the sectarian system has been designed to avoid conflicts like the Lebanese civil war, which really grew out of the Palestinian refugee crisis from what I understand. In places like Iraq, Libya, Egypt and Syria, sectarian violence was kept in check by strongmen. From what you've described it sounds like sectarian patronage keeps sectarian violence in check. And that's probably the reason why the system is so hard to change. It kind of sounds like the Mimbari caste system from the sci fi show Babylon 5. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minbari) If I am correct, what's holding your country back is fear. (Same as mine). So....what to do about it? From the Christian perspective perfect love casts out fear. (1 John 4:8) I don't know much about the Muslim perspective, but everything needed for self government at the individual level is in places like Matthew 5. Love your neighbor as yourself. Do unto others as you would have to do unto you. Jesus even said "I judge no one." (John 8:15 You judge by human standards; I pass judgment on no one.) Imagine if all Christians actually lived like that? I know that Islam has a voluntary welfare system just like Christianity. Finding, and encouraging people to come up with solutions outside of government which fill roles that government has taken over, be it education, fighting poverty and hunger, housing or healthcare, is the way to a more libertarian society IMO. Libertarians spend far too much time trying to roll back government and not enough time trying to replace government.

The Taef Agreement
The National Pact succeeded in ending the mandate, but failed to transform Lebanon into a cohesive functioning state. The political position of the various groups continued to be divided mainly along religious lines. It was only a matter of time before the political divide between Christians and Muslims exploded into a full armed conflict. This explosion occurred in 1975 and lasted until 1989, when the surviving deputies elected in 1972 met in Taef, Saudi Arabia, and agreed on a modest restructuring of the confessional regime to placate the warring factions and end the fighting.[30] A smaller but similar conflict had occurred earlier in 1958 during which the United States Marines landed in Beirut in response to the crisis and helped restore order and return the country to normalcy.[31]

The Taef Agreement required, and the House of Deputies adopted, the following amendments to the Constitution:

A provision stipulating that “[t]here shall be no legitimacy to any authority that contradicts the pact of co-existence” (however, there was no explanation as to what pact was being referred to or what legal consequences would result from contradicting this pact) (Preamble);
The vesting of the executive power of the State in the Council of Ministers rather than in the President (art. 17);
The necessity of a two-thirds vote by the Cabinet on all major decisions (art. 65);
The creation of a Constitutional Court (art. 19);
The distribution of the seats of the House of Deputies or Parliament equally between Christians and Muslims and proportionally among each of them until such time as the House of Deputies has enacted an electoral law not on the basis of religious representation (art. 24); and
The creation of a Senate where all religious communities are to be represented when the members of House of Deputies are no longer elected on a confessional basis (art. 22).
The Taef Agreement stripped the President of his constitutional powers and arguably left him with only one effective tool of governance—the authority to appoint the members of the Cabinet as agreed with the Prime Minister. Paradoxically, under the Taef Agreement the President is the Supreme Commander in Chief of the Army but the Army is under the authority of the Cabinet in which the President does not have the right to vote.

https://www.loc.gov/law/help/lebanon-constitutional-law.php

You look at the connections, you have Saudi Arabia who we all know is the biggest sponsor of terrorism helping you craft a political system, you know your country is fucked. But after 2 decades on civil war which I bet Saudi Arabia a big ally of US and Israel funded the rebelling side of it, the Lebanese people most likely agreed to a bad deal in order to end the war.

This I think is the genesis of the problem, letting Saudi Arabia more than any other nation fuel a destructive war in your country and then allowing them to help you crafting a peace process in a conference they sponsored.

 

[Ibn.AL.Muqafaa]

I am not very well read on Lebanese politics but know enough to see that you have been ignoring some issues that make me wonder. I am here wondering why you have said nothing about the very aggressive nuclear armed neighbour you have in your country that would like to take over the region. The country has caused a lot of instability in your country, tried to invade it, caused a refugee crisis when they occupied Palestine etc and yet you fail to mention them in your post.

Also wars do a lot of damage to the infrastructure you know and your issue with electricity and internet connection could be related to the wars you have had. One last thing I want to leave you with is this, virtually all politicians systems have corruption in it. That is how it is and that is always how it is going to be so you gonna have to live with some of it. The issue with the oil "we discovered in our sea" is that this seems to be on a property owned by the country. In this kid of a situation, there are only a few reasonable options to deal with this, the state can try and mine the oil, sell or lease it to private companies. Either way, the politicians would get their hands on the money.

Anyway, what do you want the state to do with this resource that they discovered?

I prefer having a private company to use it and create it's derivatives and sell the products as gas oil, deisel, butane gas.
And use some of the profit for investments, create jobs, improve our infrastructure.
Speaking of Israel, their military is way stronger than ours, and we have seen during the 2006 war when Hezbollah attacked them, Israel responded with naval and air strikes leaving many dead innocent civilians.
The only thing that could stop Israel's power is Uncle Sam, not through violence but by cutting all aid and support.
I heard that the US government, donates 2 or 3 billion dollars a year to Israel using tax dollars, this is screwing the taxpayer.

 

[Ibn.AL.Muqafaa]

https://www.loc.gov/law/help/lebanon-constitutional-law.php

You look at the connections, you have Saudi Arabia who we all know is the biggest sponsor of terrorism helping you craft a political system, you know your country is $#@!ed. But after 2 decades on civil war which I bet Saudi Arabia a big ally of US and Israel funded the rebelling side of it, the Lebanese people most likely agreed to a bad deal in order to end the war.

This I think is the genesis of the problem, letting Saudi Arabia more than any other nation fuel a destructive war in your country and then allowing them to help you crafting a peace process in a conference they sponsored.

Saudi Arabia is part of the problem, but you also forgot the other side contributing to our crises which is Iran funding, training, and arming Hezbollah an Islamic Shia Militant terrorist organization.
Lebanese politicians are two puppets one is backed by KSA and the other is Iran.​

 

[GunnyFreedom]

I can't afford immigration.


We have diversity, but we need to get rid of the corrupt politicians.

If you become a legitimate threat to the established order, you will be targeted.

 

[Ibn.AL.Muqafaa]

LOL. Ironically the South African Libertarian party has made strides that the U.S. Libertarian party could only dream of having taken the mayorship of the largest cities. India has done pretty well too.



I've always been fascinated with Lebanese politics for ^this very reason. It seems like the sectarian system has been designed to avoid conflicts like the Lebanese civil war, which really grew out of the Palestinian refugee crisis from what I understand. In places like Iraq, Libya, Egypt and Syria, sectarian violence was kept in check by strongmen. From what you've described it sounds like sectarian patronage keeps sectarian violence in check. And that's probably the reason why the system is so hard to change. It kind of sounds like the Mimbari caste system from the sci fi show Babylon 5. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minbari) If I am correct, what's holding your country back is fear. (Same as mine). So....what to do about it? From the Christian perspective perfect love casts out fear. (1 John 4:8) I don't know much about the Muslim perspective, but everything needed for self government at the individual level is in places like Matthew 5. Love your neighbor as yourself. Do unto others as you would have to do unto you. Jesus even said "I judge no one." (John 8:15 You judge by human standards; I pass judgment on no one.) Imagine if all Christians actually lived like that? I know that Islam has a voluntary welfare system just like Christianity. Finding, and encouraging people to come up with solutions outside of government which fill roles that government has taken over, be it education, fighting poverty and hunger, housing or healthcare, is the way to a more libertarian society IMO. Libertarians spend far too much time trying to roll back government and not enough time trying to replace government.

Lebanese people want change, but they are pessimistic about it because no palpable alternative has been offered.
Sectarianism is not protecting us, it is only making us less safe.
And yes a lot of people are in fear, many still think that secularism is abolishing religion, or that we become in Chaos, and some think that sectarianism is the best because other people are sectarian and bigoted.
Sunni Muslims think that the Syrian War is a war on Sunni's applies to other sects.
The Syrian Civil War, escalated the Sunni-Shia tensions in Lebanon and it is worse during the Iraq War, ever since Hezbollah's intervention is Syria the tensions have even gotten worse leading Al-Qaeda & ISIL to send suicide bombers to Lebanon especially in predominantly Hezbollah & Amal areas like the Southern Suburbs and South Lebanon. I had a near death experience, I was in a gentrified progressive area called Hamra which is close to my place, I was eating out with my friends and a suicide bomber from Al Qaeda sitting in a coffee shop facing the restaurant I was in, was caught by undercover police and Army intelligence.

The muslim perspective is fairly similar : What you want best for yourself, is what you want the best for others. And There is no compulsion in religion and belief.

And the religious clerics should be blamed too, because they are against secular civil marriage, in Lebanon we only have the option for religious marriage and are unfair to women. Me and other secularists believe that Civil Marriage is the first step towards secularism, and ending sectarianism.

 

[Ibn.AL.Muqafaa]

If you become a legitimate threat to the established order, you will be targeted.

I don't think this will ever happen, because I am average and not special.