Have you ever studied, "The Allegory of the Cave?"

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Have you ever studied "The Allegory of the Cave?" Written by Plato, told by Socrates to Glaucon. In the allegory of the cave, there are prisoners chained to the floor. These prisoners have no clue of reality, and all they've ever known is those shackles and those caves. They cannot see anything but darkness, and hear themselves. However, "free society (puppeteers)" contribute to misleading them, about this false perception of reality. By presenting objects on the roadway, in front of the flame. This flame reflects the shadow onto the wall in front of the prisoners, and this is how they learn new things about reality. One day, a prisoner escaped--he also discovered the truths about their reality. He later returned, to forewarn his fellow imprisoned companions. They did not listen to him, as they considered it to be crazy-talk. He was dismissed, and the escapee went on his way.

Why am I talking of this? Very simple. It's a reflection of Ron Paul's story, our society, and our nation. The man which discovers truth, and attempts to forewarn those that he also use to be imprisoned with. That man now possessed what appears to be a leadership role. The Media and our current Politicians, reflect the shadow to the masses by using the flame (the flame & shadow, is parallel to media and the television). Giving them a false perception of reality. The masses easily ignore those which question the societal construct and perception of reality they've come to acknowledge as "absolute." Ron Paul is the man questioning our system, and telling people to open their eyes and see for themselves. The masses are those chained to the floor inside the cave, and those of us which you have inspired are slowly waking up to your words.

Many philosophers, had issues with democracy (the masses). Now can you see? The major crux of the problem? The masses are easily mislead. The issue is ensuring we get the proper people into those leadership roles, to avoid this misleading intention.

. . .and Ron Paul, is the start of that long overdue leadership, truly believe that.

I also wanted to discuss with all of you, the importance, of the fundamentals of philosophy. If you're not aware of what philosophy is, it's a method used in life by all--but not always consistently. It's what helps one use Critical Thinking, instead of Mere Disagreement. It's what allows people to identify a premise and a conclusion, and what helps people solve paradox's in many aspects of life. It also helps people find truths, and even many untruths of some of the most controversial topics in life. Politics and Philosophy go hand-in-hand, as politicians must talk and debate about some of the most controversial topics in life and society. I wanted to suggest to everyone here, that they study the introductions (fundamentals) to philosophy, and why they're important to help bring sanity to this country, and its politics.

Philosophy is the method, where if followed successfully, guarantees an open mind on many things.

Ron Paul is more than a politician, he's a philosopher. He uses this philosophy to help keep him a champion of the constitution, and he also uses it to determine why he stands where he stands on many issues. If you acknowledge many of Ron Pauls beliefs to be true, understanding philosophy will better assist you in understanding them. If you wish to convince the masses of why Ron Paul is the one to choose, you need to do so from a constructive and polite philosophical approach. This is the same mentality that Ron Paul encourages, rather than civil disobedience, remember? This does not mean civil disobedience doesn't have its time and place.

I apologize if this post appears to be arrogant, as this is my first post. First impressions can be painful sometimes.

Sincerely,
Philosophy and Ron Paul admirer.

(PS: There are many interpretations of [The Allegory of the Cave], read up on it yourself if you wish to better understand it, and formulate your own claims)
 
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cool!




welcome!!!
tv sets? are?
pure plato?









okay, this explains mitt
and edwin o'conner's classic novel
THE LAST HURRAH. the jeff hunter thingie.
 
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i'm gonzo. some here are into pythagoras rather than euclid. others are into j.c but sometimes sets overlap.
john locke's social comtracts are not monsieur hobbes's & edmund burke's ideas of the sublime are inspired
by dionysus cassius longinus. newton improved calculus and invented modern physics. so what else is new?
 
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perhaps a media fellow can escape and tell the truth ! hopefully a few of the watching prisoners will see the true neocon light / a light of deception and false paradigm
 
Welcome to the forums!

My son had that last year ( I probably read it in college, but didn't remember much.) I did think of the liberty movement and Ron Paul, but I thought Plato (or Socrates's) description was incredibly elitist because it seemed to imply that the people there were lesser beings INCAPABLE of recognizing reality etc, rather than just acclimated to an alternate vision imposed over years. Perhaps I didn't get the whole impact. It was his assignment, not mine.
 
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Welcome to the forums!

My son had that last year ( I probably read it in college, but didn't remember much.) I did think of the liberty movement and Ron Paul, but I thought Plato (or Socrates's) description was incredibly elitist because it seemed to imply that the people there were lesser beings INCAPABLE of recognizing reality etc, rather than just acclimated to an alternate vision imposed over years. Perhaps I didn't get the whole impact. It was his assignment, not mine.

The people were not lesser beings, in the way Socrates described them. The puppeteers (free/mislead society) perceived those prisoners to be lessers or inferior people. This is why they were chained to begin with. The way Socrates describes the story, is not to just tell a story. But rather, it's intended to create a mental image. This image was created, so people could try and think critically of its depth and meaning. This is why there is so many interpretations of The Allegory of the Cave. However, this is my own interpretation of it, and in my opinion...it fits quite nicely. Wouldn't you agree?

The reason i say this, is because of how Socrates died. Socrates was executed by his own society, for questioning the gods, and stealing religious students. Socrates (according to history), never stole religious students. But instead, the religious students were inspired by his idea's and questions. The religious students themselves, thought critically about Socrates' words, and eventually became supporters of him. When society is willing to execute you for formulating an opinion, thus further compels me to believe this is the intended message of Socrates.
 
Welcome to the forums!

My son had that last year ( I probably read it in college, but didn't remember much.) I did think of the liberty movement and Ron Paul, but I thought Plato (or Socrates's) description was incredibly elitist because it seemed to imply that the people there were lesser beings INCAPABLE of recognizing reality etc, rather than just acclimated to an alternate vision imposed over years. Perhaps I didn't get the whole impact. It was his assignment, not mine.

I don't think Plato was arguing that the masses were hoodwinked although that is a plausible interpretation since it appears in the Republic which is presumed to be a political work. But I think the political part is a metaphor for the human condition - the inability of humans to grasp the true nature of ultimate reality. At the end of the book, Plato more or less says that he's using the example of a republic as a model for the human psyche.
 
Wow! Sounds like a bronze age version of The Matrix or Huxley's "Brave New World". Same theme different technology.
 
As I said, I did think of the liberty movement and Ron, but I haven't read the whole thing recently. It seems like a more encouraging interpretation than that nothing can be done because the people aren't capable of hearing, so I prefer it. Plato's Republic, overall, colored my interpretation. He asked who watches the guardians yet still seems to say that there need to be guardians because people aren't capable of self determination, which seems condescending, to me. Sort of like our political class.

--
edit in response to boneyard bill

I prefer it as a view of human condition unable to comprehend the sublime. That isn't how I took it when I read it, but that approach suits me better.
 
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shemdogg--- the enlightenment eventually happens. many chains are smash'd in + by
as well as due to that tyme. john locke and adam smith write. we are a republic. still...
 
Focus less on whether or not the people were hoodwinked, and analyze whether or not that interpretation seems to be possible, and happening in our modern day society. Focus more on the mental image, that's trying to be displayed through the Allegory of the Cave.
 
tv sets spawn candidates like mitt romney over tyme, my point being... GOTO the spencer tracy oscar flic
 
No one else has a comment? Any questions? I'm here to help the movement, through philosophical approach.

It's not disinterest, you may be surprised to learn that Plato's Allegory of the Cave has been referenced here several times. Ron Paul tends to attract people of a much higher intellect than your 'normal' Presidential contender. Aratus sorta hinted at that LOL. Sometimes his word-pictures tend towards the abstract.

Your first post wasn't arrogant, it's just I'm pretty sure that most of us have already chewed that meat. Probably got a lot of quick glances, a silent "Yup, uh huh" and move on. Not derogating the work, just letting you know that philosophy around these parts is several orders of magnitude more complex than you would find around Romney/Perry/Bachmann et al.

Indeed, it may be a struggle to find a novel application.
 
As I said, I did think of the liberty movement and Ron, but I haven't read the whole thing recently. It seems like a more encouraging interpretation than that nothing can be done because the people aren't capable of hearing, so I prefer it. Plato's Republic, overall, colored my interpretation. He asked who watches the guardians yet still seems to say that there need to be guardians because people aren't capable of self determination, which seems condescending, to me. Sort of like our political class.

Yes, in order for humanity to exist as a society, it does need guardians. Consider guardians to be the parallel term for "Authority." Imagine a society without boundaries, rules, or authority?

Having authority and boundaries isn't a bad thing for humanity (necessary for society, in my opinion). The issue is -- humanity naturally tries to break boundaries. We push ourselves everyday, to get a deeper understanding of EVERYTHING. Technology and Anatomy being 2 clear examples. However, what is the intention of the authority? Is it meant to "RULE?" Or is that authority meant to "PRESERVE?"

Our current Government, is there for intention to "Rule."
When the strongest this country ever was, was when authority existed to "PRESERVE" this country.

We've strayed.
 
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For anyone not familiar with the concept of the trivium, it is the basis of a classical liberal arts education. It gives one the tools to think critically.

The Trivium method: (pertains to mind) – the elementary three.

General Grammar, Aristotelian Logic, and Classical Rhetoric comprise the first three rules-based subjects of the 7 Liberal Arts and Sciences. As these disciplines are learned and practiced together, they form the overarching, symbiotic system for establishing clarity and consistency of personal thought called the Trivium.

[1] General Grammar

(Answers the question of the Who, What, Where, and the When of a subject.) Discovering and ordering facts of reality comprises basic, systematic Knowledge

[2] Formal Logic

(Answers the Why of a subject.) Developing the faculty of reason in establishing valid [i.e., non-contradictory] relationships among facts, systematic Understanding

[3] Classical Rhetoric

(Provides the How of a subject.) Applying knowledge and understanding expressively comprises Wisdom or, in other words, it is systematically useable knowledge and understanding http://www.triviumeducation.com/

For if you [the rulers] suffer your people to be ill-educated, and their manners to be corrupted from their infancy, and then punish them for those crimes to which their first education disposed them, what else is to be concluded from this, but that you first make thieves [and outlaws] and then punish them.
-Sir Thomas More (1478-1535), Utopia, Book 1



http://tragedyandhope.com/

BTW, great post Philosophy_of_Politics
 
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