For those annoying people who say libertarian societies are impractical and utopian...

FreeTraveler

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Send them this link:

http://tirelessagorist.blogspot.com/2012/01/largest-libertarian-society-in-history.html

Or just remember the points I've posted below.

We're all participating in the Largest Libertarian Society in History, right here on the Internet.


The link leads to the full essay, which I've abstracted below for quick and easy reading of the main points:

The Largest Libertarian Society in History

While the near-disaster of SOPA and PIPA is still fresh on everyone's mind this is an ideal opportunity to discuss the largest libertarian society in history. The society that brought the SOPA and PIPA legislation to a halt and that brought you to read this essay. The society of the Internet.
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The same people who defeated the government's attack through voluntary action express doubt about the efficacy, fairness, and capability of the free market and the core concepts of a libertarian society. Immersed daily in the largest, most anonymous, most libertarian society ever to exist, they fail to recognize it for the miracle that it is, or to recognize the compelling forces that make it work.

Billions of people utilize trillions of dollars worth of unbelievably decentralized infrastructure to locate obscure information, share common interests, accomplish common goals, trade freely among themselves, select from a range of products that dwarfs those available in any other venue, and start and dissolve almost completely-unregulated businesses at a pace that is simply unprecedented in history. Innovation and the creative destruction of organizations based on failed concepts occur at a rate that was simply unimaginable just a few short years ago. Even the near-total destruction of several pre-Internet industries raised few eyebrows, given the tremendous increase in utility to the consumer. (Encyclopedia companies and travel agencies are examples that spring quickly to mind.)

Millions of people cruelly oppressed in the physical realm have utilized this freest and most cooperative of societies to organize and strike back against their oppressors, ushering in a new era of freedom and democracy outside the Internet that strives to replicate the free society they have discovered online.

Even here in the relatively free United States, activists have organized movements against oppressive government activities that span the political spectrum from the Occupy movement to the raw milk movement, from gay rights to protests against foreign entanglements and other actions of an ever-expanding government. Such widespread activism was unheard of just a generation ago.

Yet many Netizens claim that there has never been a successful libertarian society in all of history, while living squarely in the middle of that which they swear has never existed. Indeed, this most libertarian of societies shows every sign of leading by example to unparalled freedom around the world for citizens of all territorial governments.
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Many Netizens who are supporters of government intrusion into the physical realm also fail to recognize that the internet/tech business is one of the most vibrant sectors of a moribund economy, actively creating wealth and jobs, precisely because the governments of the world haven't yet figured out how to aggressively intervene in cyberspace the way they do in physical space. In the case of the devices used to utilize the Internet, the regulation is minimal, and as a result we have seen a huge expansion in the types of devices capable of connecting to the Internet over the last few years, a trend that shows no signs of stopping. The Internet is bringing about a transformation of the physical world everywhere they intersect.
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Although common wisdom is that the guiding hand of the state is needed for the success of large, complex projects, the Internet is one of the most complex technological achievements of mankind, and it has evolved as rapidly as it has in large part because those involved have taken it upon themselves to form coalitions and work together on those aspects that most interested them, without waiting for a government-funded master plan to tell them what they could or could not do.
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The dizzying array of standards that have evolved without government involvement themselves give lie to the concept that goverment is required as a standardizing body. Even fraudulent behavior, once thought the nemesis of the anonymous freedom of the Internet, has largely been defeated not by government regulation, but by education and voluntary changes in behavior by both businesses and consumers wishing to see the Internet mature from its early days as a playground to the location of trillions of dollars of real business transactions that we inhabit today.
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The Internet is among the great human achievements; a shining example of the superiority of Mises' "Human Action" over centralized planning. Welcome to Libertopia.

Hope this provides some useful ammo. The entire essay is worth a read; it just expands on the main points I've made above.
 
I've made this analogy in the past before, the internet is a great example of what free market principles can accomplish.

Even though the Internet is not COMPLETELY free but it is the best example we have and it has been working and thriving.
 
I've already had a couple of those "libertarians are impractical" types decide they should reconsider their stance. :)
 
I hear a lot of the libertarian "utopia" talk from liberals who are pissed about Ayn Rand writing her books about a dystopian socialist society. From what I have gathered, it seems like a lot of projection from people who believe that the state can create heaven on earth.
 
But, but, but... the internet was created by the government!

So there!

You're not supposed to remember that part.

The internet in it's modern form was not created by the government. The technology of being able to send data electronically was created by the government, but that doesn't mean without the government it would never have been created. If I remember correctly, the military had "internet" technology back in the 60's. Why did it take 40 years for it to develop into what we have today? It only took 10 years for the free market to go from 14000 baud rates (think downloading at 1 kilobyte/second) to widespread and cheap download rates of 1 megabyte/second (a thousand times faster) [this is also known as 20 megabits/s or some such thing]. And even today 1 MB/s is considered slow to average. Google is testing internet speeds of up to 350 Megabits/s. That's 9 seconds to download a 2 hour movie in High Definition, a long way from waiting an hour for a 5 minute song which only sounded good on earbuds.

My point is, "the internet was created by the government!" is simply not true. Like the economy, the internet is us. We created the internet.
 
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calling the internet a libertarian society only further shows the absurdity of the argument.

the internet at best provides an efficient means of communication, it by no means replaces our material needs, from shelter to food.

sure, the internet is libertarian as far as speech and trade is concerned, but that's where it ends.
 
calling the internet a libertarian society only further shows the absurdity of the argument.

the internet at best provides an efficient means of communication, it by no means replaces our material needs, from shelter to food.

sure, the internet is libertarian as far as speech and trade is concerned, but that's where it ends.
Nice try, but I've had some real libertarian-haters read the whole essay and wander off mumbling to themselves. The Internet isn't a society; the people using the Internet make up a society, and those people interact not only on the Internet but in the real world. Their interactions on the Internet are profoundly libertarian in their makeup.
 
Nice try, but I've had some real libertarian-haters read the whole essay and wander off mumbling to themselves. The Internet isn't a society; the people using the Internet make up a society, and those people interact not only on the Internet but in the real world. Their interactions on the Internet are profoundly libertarian in their makeup.

the real world, like the internet isnt real and we arent real people typing in all this text. Its real. Im real. You are real. We are just disembodied for the purpose of communication. Our bodies cant travel at the speed of light but our text can, so in that sense we can travel at the speed of light.
 
Nice try, but I've had some real libertarian-haters read the whole essay and wander off mumbling to themselves. The Internet isn't a society; the people using the Internet make up a society, and those people interact not only on the Internet but in the real world. Their interactions on the Internet are profoundly libertarian in their makeup.

what have they accomplished for themselves that is so libertarian? may I ask.
 
the real world, like the internet isnt real and we arent real people typing in all this text. Its real. Im real. You are real. We are just disembodied for the purpose of communication. Our bodies cant travel at the speed of light but our text can, so in that sense we can travel at the speed of light.

the internet doesn't replace your material needs such as food, energy, shelter. at best it speeds up communication and trade. it doesn't even speed up cars or planes, it just reduces the use of them at most.
 
But, but, but... the internet was created by the government!

So there!

Had the US government not stifled communication with the Telecommunications Act of 1932, the Internet may have been invented much sooner by the market.

And it would have been wireless.
 
The internet in it's modern form was not created by the government. The technology of being able to send data electronically was created by the government, but that doesn't mean without the government it would never have been created. If I remember correctly, the military had "internet" technology back in the 60's. Why did it take 40 years for it to develop into what we have today? It only took 10 years for the free market to go from 14000 baud rates (think downloading at 1 kilobyte/second) to widespread and cheap download rates of 1 megabyte/second (a thousand times faster) [this is also known as 20 megabits/s or some such thing]. And even today 1 MB/s is considered slow to average. Google is testing internet speeds of up to 350 Megabits/s. That's 9 seconds to download a 2 hour movie in High Definition, a long way from waiting an hour for a 5 minute song which only sounded good on earbuds.

My point is, "the internet was created by the government!" is simply not true. Like the economy, the internet is us. We created the internet.

How it works (TCPIP packets, SMTP, DNS, IP addressing, and routed data packets) was figured out by guys on the government dime. Tale that away and what have you got left?
 
How it works (TCPIP packets, SMTP, DNS, IP addressing, and routed data packets) was figured out by guys on the government dime. Tale that away and what have you got left?
I was always under the impression that a bunch of Universities got together and actually put together the original Internet.
 
The government may have funded ARPANET but the hardware came from IBM, DEC, and other private sector players who did the real inventing.
 
the internet at best provides an efficient means of communication, it by no means replaces our material needs...

My vast collection of burned CD's says otherwise! :)

I've had a lot of my material needs met by the Internet, and eventually, the technology may come to a point where you can "download" a ham & cheese sandwich. As long as the government stays the hell out of it, we have no idea what this technology can bring into our lives with a few more years of research and development.
 
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