Evidence emerging that the US/NATO was responsible for Libyan cluster bombing.

[Anti Federalist]

Well, I'm shocked.



The cluster bombing of Misrata: The case against the USA

http://humanrightsinvestigations.or...-bombing-of-misrata-the-case-against-the-usa/



'US dropped cluster bombs on Misratah'

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/182310.html



PSYOP: US Navy cluster bombs oil-rich Libya, blames Gadaffi

http://www.examiner.com/human-right...ster-bombs-libya-blames-gadaffi#ixzz1NzAEOhDd

 

[Kylie]

I am about to explode.

I have been arguing all fucking day with people who think that Muslims are the ones whose brains aren't wired right and we need to kill them all.

And now this. God, please let this not be true. Please, please, please.

 

[AuH20]

I don't think this going to make the front page of the New York Times. Hope and Change doesn't rhyme with Death From Above.

 

[puppetmaster]

Well they know that a certain amount of undetonated bombs and casings would be left over for display. So I can only surmise that they don't give a fuck and know that we are too stupid and lazy to care.

 

[doodle]

If this is true, this could harm lot of children and civilians.

 

[Anti Federalist]

///

 

[Pericles]

Like - who else has that capability? Answer is obvious.

 

[BucksforPaul]

Of course this is true and can be chalked up as another false flag operation in order to start a war where Banksters can make billions from war profiteering. Whats baffling to me is how people can continue to believe these lies despite there being overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

A few examples off the top of my head which have resulted in tens of millions of innocent human deaths.
Gulf of Tonkin

Iraqis throwing Kuwaiti babies out of incubators.

Weapons of Mass Deception.

Soldiers taking Viagra in order to rape women.

When it comes to war, everything the corporate media peddles is pure propaganda and outright lies.

 

[Kludge]

Bump.

 

[teacherone]

NONE of the three articles in the OP provide any evidence that the US used cluster bombs whatsoever.

Pure speculative propaganda - on both sides.

 

[Anti Federalist]

NONE of the three articles in the OP provide any evidence that the US used cluster bombs whatsoever.

Pure speculative propaganda - on both sides.

That's why I said, "emerging".

Might turn out to be nothing at all.

But, given government's past track record, you willing to bet on it being nothing?

 

[oyarde]

We need no involvement in Libya period . Nothing to be gained.

 

[HOLLYWOOD]

The International Banksters are licking their chops at the $53 Billion in Libyan holdings they have...

The International Energy corporations are licking their chops at the Billions of Barrels of Crude Oil and Billions of Cu Ft of NAT GAS...

The Fascist Imperial Empires from Washington DC, London, and Paris are licking their chops at securing more for themselves, especially real estate, ports, runways, and reciprocate to the unknowingly Libyan people, $10's of Billions in Western Weaponry purchased with their own stolen funds, loans by the International Misery Fund, and the biggy, laundering US Taxpayer funds through the state department for Defense Contractors/Nation Building.

Just watch...

 

[Zippyjuan]

The canister shown is of a MAT- 120 mortar bomb. It is launched from a 120mm mortar with a range of 5500 to 6800 meters.
http://articles.janes.com/articles/Janes-Ammunition-Handbook/120-mm-MAT-120-cargo-bomb-Spain.html

Instalaza SA developed this cargo bomb which was type-classified by the Spanish Ministry of Defence in 2002. It was intended to be co-produced by Patria for the Finnish defence forces from 2007. However, in spite of this being the only mortar cargo bomb that has demonstrated 0 per cent of hazardous duds, the MAT-120 is considered a cluster bomb and is therefore banned under the 2008 Dublin agreement on cluster munitions.

Description
The MAT-120 cargo mortar bomb is fired from 120 mm smoothbore mortars and carries 21 submunitions, each of 37 mm diameter, up to a range of 5,500 m to 6,800 m, depending on the barrel length.The MAT-120 incorporates an electronic safety-and-arming system. When stored, the round does not contain any electrical energy. The main fuze generates all necessary power after firing, once the round is in flight.Each submunition has its own electronic SuperQuick (SQ) impact fuze. The fuze controls activation after submunition scattering, initiating the submunition warhead on impact. The submunition fuze includes a Self-Destruction Self-Deactivation [sD]² device which assures its self destruction after 20 seconds, or its self-deactivation after a few minutes, thereby achieving a 0 per cent hazardous dud rate, which exceeds the Geneva's Protocol II requirements. Each submunition is dual-purpose: both anti-armour, penetrating up to 150 mm of Rolled Homogeneous Armour (RHA), and anti-personnel, carrying about 650 fragments per submunition, with an 18 m effective radius.The safety-and-arming system ensures not only safety during storing, handling, firing and flight, but also reliability of the submunitions on impact and a safe target zone some minutes after firing.The MAT-120 bomb is fired in the same way as any conventional mortar round and does not require specific training. After firing, and once the time preset in the fuze has been reached, the round spreads the submunitions to fall freely in a near-vertical trajectory, reaching the target in a uniform pattern covering a circle some 50 to 60 m in

If US forces were using these, they were on the ground within two miles of the target. They are not dropped from airplanes. The original article linked also says this. It suggests that they could have been fired from a boat in the sea but most of Misratha is more than two miles from the sea- out of the range of these mortars.

 

[jmdrake]

I am about to explode.

I have been arguing all fucking day with people who think that Muslims are the ones whose brains aren't wired right and we need to kill them all.

And now this. God, please let this not be true. Please, please, please.

But you see we have to kill Muslims in order to save Muslims from the evil Qaddafi. Qaddafi is more evil than Al Qaeda and that's why we need to support Al Qaeda against Qaddafi. Gold for oil and central banking has nothing to do with it despite all of the evidence to the contrary.

 

[pcosmar]

If US forces were using these, they were on the ground within two miles of the target. They are not dropped from airplanes. The original article linked also says this. It suggests that they could have been fired from a boat in the sea but most of Misratha is more than two miles from the sea- out of the range of these mortars.

The articles suggest several things, all of which should be investigated.
Up to and including the question of US troops operating inside Libya.

You will excuse me if I do not take "official denials" seriously.
I seem to remember other denials in other theaters. (VietNam/Cambodia)

 

[Zippyjuan]

Like the "official denials" that a Spanish company sold these weapons to Libya?

Here is what Human Rights Watch (the ones cited in the original link) have said on the issue:
http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2011/04/15/libya-cluster-munitions-strike-misrata

Libya: Cluster Munitions Strike Misrata

Human Rights Watch Witnesses Attack Into Residential Area


April 15, 2011



(New York) - Government forces loyal to the Libyan leader, Muammar Gaddafi, have fired cluster munitions into residential areas in the western city of Misrata, posing a grave risk to civilians, Human Rights Watch said today.

Human Rights Watch observed at least three cluster munitions explode over the el-Shawahda neighborhood in Misrata on the night of April 14, 2011. Researchers inspected the remnants of a cluster submunition and interviewed witnesses to two other apparent cluster munition strikes.

Based on the submunition inspected by Human Rights Watch, first discovered by a reporter from The New York Times, the cluster munition is a Spanish-produced MAT-120 120mm mortar projectile, which opens in mid-air and releases 21 submunitions over a wide area. Upon exploding on contact with an object, each submunition disintegrates into high-velocity fragments to attack people and releases a slug of molten metal to penetrate armored vehicles.


"It's appalling that Libya is using this weapon, especially in a residential area," said Steve Goose, arms division director at Human Rights Watch. "They pose a huge risk to civilians, both during attacks because of their indiscriminate nature and afterward because of the still-dangerous unexploded duds scattered about."

They witnessed the attacks.

The area where Human Rights Watch witnessed the use of cluster munitions is about 1 kilometer from the front line between rebels and government forces. The submunitions appear to have landed about 300 meters from Misrata hospital. Human Rights Watch could not inspect the impact sites due to security concerns.

Human Rights Watch has not yet been able to determine if civilians in Misrata have been wounded or killed by cluster munitions.

Human Rights Watch interviewed two ambulance drivers who said they had witnessed cluster strikes prior to April 14.

Ibrahim Abuwayfa told Human Rights Watch that he was in the Al-Gzeer district of Misrata around 7 p.m. on April 13, on the coastal road called Tuarga Street, when he saw an explosion in the air and "little flames" coming down. "One of the objects landed a few meters away on a residential wall and it exploded when it hit and then shrapnel flew out," Abuwayfa said. Abuwayfa said he had heard of similar attacks that night in the Maghdar and Kurzaz areas of the city.

Waleed Srayti said he saw a cluster munition strike on April 14, at 11 a.m. "I was in the streets behind the vegetable market," he said. "A big battle was going on in Tripoli Street at the vegetable market. I heard a noise and about 9 to 10 things started popping out of the sky over the market. I just saw the pops in the air. I saw white smoke coming down. When it went up, I didn't see anything. It was daylight. I didn't hear anything when it went up, but I heard the explosion at the top of the arc."

 

[pcosmar]

Like the "official denials" that a Spanish company sold these weapons to Libya?

Here is what Human Rights Watch (the ones cited in the original link) have said on the issue:
http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2011/04/15/libya-cluster-munitions-strike-misrata

They witnessed the attacks.

the cluster munition is a Spanish-produced MAT-120 120mm mortar projectile,

The Spanish produced munitions are printed in English? (going by the photo)

Oh, and BTW, Spain is a NATO member nation. That would be consistent with the title of this thread.
Supplied by NATO or dropped by NATO.
Really makes little difference to those injured by them.

What was your point again?

 

[Zippyjuan]

Perhaps my point is that there were weapons sold to Libya and that witnesses saw the rounds come from the direction of Libyan forces. Unless you wish to imply that US and NATO forces are on the ground alongside Libyan ones maybe. You might have been writing your reply while I added the part of the attacks being witnessed by Human Rights Watch and thus did not see that part of my post. There is also a black market in munitions so they could also have aquired them from there. The pieces found were from units make before Spain signed a treaty banning them. Evidence points more to Khadaffi than to NATO at this point.

 

[pcosmar]

Evidence points more to Khadaffi than to NATO at this point.

Did NATO (or a NATO member) supply the weapons to Khadaffi?

Would there be no responsibility in doing so?

This is still being investigated, as it should be.
Are you opposed to investigation of Human Rights Abuses?