Epipens go from $20 to $500 in one year. DR Rand Paul absent on issue

I

idiom

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Joined
Nov 11, 2007
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8,598
Holy Hell.

http://www.goodrx.com/epipen?gclid=...Cn_ikhCDhyPuia7-UUpKSriZXlOkFiXeg8aAhcY8P8HAQ


Medical abuse enabled by the government should be THE issue Rand is running on. End the MED. Its 20% of America's GDP. It touches far more Americans than Bernanke or Yellen in direct and relatable ways.

This Issue could rocket Rand beyond Trump and especially Carson who also fail to speak to the Issue. Trump represents the type of opportunists who exploit weakness in law and prosecution to make a buck.

The more Rand emphasizes he is a doctor, but doesn't address the blatant theft in the system, the worse his credibility gets.

https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=230760
 
I am pretty sure Rand is for eliminating the FDA. That isn't going to happen. What would you like him to do? What does "End the Med mean?" What theft are you talking about? Drug companies should be able to charge whatever price the want. I am sure there could be some patent reform, but it sounds like you think life saving drug companies are the enemy.

It doesn't appear the company has done anything wrong with EpiPen. Advertising isn't against the law. It looks they are being smart. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ned-the-epipen-into-a-billion-dollar-business

Do you know how many biotech companies exist. It is into the thousands. Most fail. The cost to get one drug approved runs into the billions of dollars. It takes on average 18 years to get a drug to market. Short of ending the FDA, I don't know what the solution would be.
 
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Krugminator2 said:
I am pretty sure Rand is for eliminating the FDA. That isn't going to happen. What would you like him to do? What does "End the Med mean?" What theft are you talking about? Drug companies should be able to charge whatever price the want. I am sure there could be some patent reform, but it sounds like you think life saving drug companies are the enemy.

It doesn't appear the company has done anything wrong with EpiPen. Advertising isn't against the law. It looks they are being smart. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ned-the-epipen-into-a-billion-dollar-business

Do you know how many biotech companies exist. It is into the thousands. Most fail. The cost to get one drug approved runs into the billions of dollars. It takes on average 18 years to get a drug to market. Short of ending the FDA, I don't know what the solution would be.
Click to expand...

The Epipen thing is pure cartel behavior. Its not patent protection or research cost recovery or anything of the sort. It is abuse of market power, market power granted by the government.

Why can't you import medicine? Drug companies charge different prices in different countries, they do this because there is no free market, thanks to specific protections the government has put in place.

There are countless examples of collusion between providers, consumer abuses, and monopoly protections.

And your argument is 'end the FDA'?

Any other retailer is required to post prices and stick to quotes. Why not hospitals? Why is it legal for hospitals to make up a price after the service is performed and they have figured out just how much you can pay?

Private hospital care in the US costs 5x what un-subsidized private care costs in other first world nations that have actual free markets in healthcare. Do you honestly think US private health care is 500% better than in other OECD countries?

If you don't have a free market, then you either need to regulate it or free it. The "FDA Costs Money" line is hogwash as huge chunks of those costs are subsidized. Its a massive leach too, but there is so much more systemically wrong.

Want to start a new low cost hospital? Better get a 'consent of need' to make sure you don't build too many hospitals and accidentally create competition among providers.

You really think the FDA is the reason US private hospitals don't have posted prices lists? They do in any other country. Why can't you go get a binding cash quote from three different hospitals in the US, as you would in any other industry, or hospitals in any other country? Straight up collusion, fraud, exploitation, and theft.
 
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INB4 Zippy...

There is a perfectly acceptable explanation for these price increases. You see, there was a factory fire (at a new plant in Madagascar), followed by the sinking of a ship full of Epipens, so there was a shortage issue that has been perfectly addressed by incremental price restructuring.

This chart clearly shows what happened:

healthcare-sales5-15a.png
 
idiom said:
The Epipen thing is pure cartel behavior. Its not patent protection or research cost recovery or anything of the sort. It is abuse of market power, market power granted by the government.

Why can't you import medicine? Drug companies charge different prices in different countries, they do this because there is no free market, thanks to specific protections the government has put in place.

There are countless examples of collusion between providers, consumer abuses, and monopoly protections.

And your argument is 'end the FDA'?
Click to expand...

But all's fair in love and crony corporatism. Via legislation, EpiPen is officially mandated (by product name) in all public schools and Disneyland theme parks. And representatives from Mylan are always helpful to the FDA when competing drugs are being considered by the FDA. They are the experts after all, and government must rely on experts from the business world.
 
idiom said:
The Epipen thing is pure cartel behavior. Its not patent protection or research cost recovery or anything of the sort. It is abuse of market power, market power granted by the government.

Why can't you import medicine? Drug companies charge different prices in different countries, they do this because there is no free market, thanks to specific protections the government has put in place.


There are countless examples of collusion between providers, consumer abuses, and monopoly protections.

And your argument is 'end the FDA'?
Click to expand...

Ending the FDA is a no brainer. Milton Friedman laid out the case why it kills more people than it saves. Ending the FDA would get drugs to market quicker and cheaper. That would probably cut the cost by 70%.

All the innovation in medical technology and biotech takes place in the US. Companies charge different prices because a lot of countries have price controls. It might only cost 50 cents to make a tablet. So if Canada puts a price control of $20 on a tablet, it is still profitable for the drug company to sell the drug there. But it doesn't mean the price control is a good there. Go to Econtalk. There have been at least one or two shows on this.
 
Krugminator2 said:
I am pretty sure Rand is for eliminating the FDA. That isn't going to happen. What would you like him to do? What does "End the Med mean?" What theft are you talking about? Drug companies should be able to charge whatever price the want. I am sure there could be some patent reform, but it sounds like you think life saving drug companies are the enemy.

It doesn't appear the company has done anything wrong with EpiPen. Advertising isn't against the law. It looks they are being smart. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ned-the-epipen-into-a-billion-dollar-business

Do you know how many biotech companies exist. It is into the thousands. Most fail. The cost to get one drug approved runs into the billions of dollars. It takes on average 18 years to get a drug to market. Short of ending the FDA, I don't know what the solution would be.
Click to expand...

Interesting article about Senator Manchin's daughter.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ned-the-epipen-into-a-billion-dollar-business

...Heather Bresch, now Mylan’s chief executive officer...

The CEO has made no secret of her strategy to increase demand for EpiPens by getting them stocked for emergency use in more schools and other public places. (So-called entity prescriptions allow for this.) “We are continuing to open up new markets, new access with public entity legislation that would allow restaurants and hotels and really anywhere you are congregating, there should be access to an EpiPen,” Bresch said at a conference on Sept. 17.

Over the past seven years, Mylan has hired consultants who had worked with Medtronic to get defibrillators stocked in public places. Bresch, the daughter of Senator Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.), turned to Washington for help. Along with patient groups, Mylan pushed for federal legislation encouraging states to stock epinephrine devices in schools.
Click to expand...
 
Krugminator2 said:
Ending the FDA is a no brainer. Milton Friedman laid out the case why it kills more people than it saves. Ending the FDA would get drugs to market quicker and cheaper. That would probably cut the cost by 70%.

All the innovation in medical technology and biotech takes place in the US. Companies charge different prices because a lot of countries have price controls. It might only cost 50 cents to make a tablet. So if Canada puts a price control of $20 on a tablet, it is still profitable for the drug company to sell the drug there. But it doesn't mean the price control is a good there. Go to Econtalk. There have been at least one or two shows on this.
Click to expand...

It sucks how we're currently poised for a huge earth shaking revolution in medicine, but the FDA is putting on the brakes. Life extension, cures for cancer, cures for Alzheimer's... all of these are on the cusp, but you can't have this bureaucratic nightmare standing in the way if you want that to happen.
 
Krugminator2 said:
I am pretty sure Rand is for eliminating the FDA. That isn't going to happen. What would you like him to do? What does "End the Med mean?" What theft are you talking about? Drug companies should be able to charge whatever price the want. I am sure there could be some patent reform, but it sounds like you think life saving drug companies are the enemy.
Click to expand...

Randal has proposed a number of alternatives to outright eliminating the FDA (although I'm sure he would be all aboard that train, if it was possible)
Off the top of my head, I've heard him say:
1. Return the FDA to its original mandate which was to ensure safety and REMOVE the efficacy mandate that was added later.
2. Fast track drug approval for drugs already approved/in use in other 1st world countries.
3. Allow studies done in other 1st world countries to be used for the FDA approval process.
 
Brian4Liberty said:
Interesting article about Senator Manchin's daughter.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ned-the-epipen-into-a-billion-dollar-business
Click to expand...

I am not saying there isn't a ton a of cronyism. That is the case with all business done with the government. Eliminating the FDA seems like by far the best option to get costs down. That would cut the politics out of FDA approval too.

Price controls and eliminating patents seem like very poor choices to fix the problem.
 
What does "End the Med mean?" What theft are you talking about? Drug companies should be able to charge whatever price the want. I am sure there could be some patent reform, but it sounds like you think life saving drug companies are the enemy.
Click to expand...

pretty fucking simple in my eye


FUCK PATENTS


there is absolutely no place for government granted monopolies in a free nation.
 
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The recent inflation has been for drugs that are outside of patent through pure cornering of markets.

There are a lot of artificial barriers to entry, making the market easier to corner.

Countries without price controls and with patent protections have much lower medical and drug costs. However its illegal to purchase drugs you bought there and bring home your own property.
 
Krugminator2 said:
Why would drug companies develop drugs without patents? It costs billions of dollars. They have to recoup costs and they have to get compensated for their investment.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/matthew...truly-staggering-cost-of-inventing-new-drugs/

"The average drug developed by a major pharmaceutical company costs at least $4 billion, and it can be as much as $11 billion."
Click to expand...

http://www.citizen.org/publications/publicationredirect.cfm?ID=7065

Hogwash.

You are defending price gouging of drugs that are 60 years out of patent. It is only possible through government protections, of which the FDA is about 5%.
 
Krugminator2 said:
"The average drug developed by a major pharmaceutical company costs at least $4 billion, and it can be as much as $11 billion."
Click to expand...

crock
of
shit

you probably also believe the earth is flat
Click to expand...

http://blogs.wsj.com/pharmalot/2014...s-2-6-billion-but-not-everyone-believes-this/

actual cost ranges from 50 million, up to 186 million dollars
Click to expand...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jacqueline-dooley/does-it-really-cost-26-bi_b_8222386.html

To the extent that generics created by reverse-engineering would be produced, this would create an incentive for innovators to continue innovating and at a rapid pace, rather than resting on their laurels.
Click to expand...

http://libertarianstandard.com/2010/04/01/drugs-without-patents-profit-and-cornucopia/
 
DevilsAdvocate said:
Yeah screw innovation!
Click to expand...

Is this Ron Paul Forums where we support LIBERTY and FREE MARKETS?
Of is this a closet socialist site where only the nanny state can save us from our competitors?

I honestly can't believe I'm reading this shit here.
 
presence said:
Is this Ron Paul Forums where we support LIBERTY and FREE MARKETS?
Of is this a closet socialist site where only the nanny state can save us from our competitors?

I honestly can't believe I'm reading this shit here.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure Ron Paul would laugh at your anti-patent stance
 
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